494 réponses à ce sujet

[KBomb]

Also despite being a Keepers first, you may not have Vallaslin for any number of reasons. Like the Keeper themselves thinking that you are not ready for adult responsibilities. Being taught the old ways does not mean you're ready to lead the people, but that you're learning still. You may not have Vallaslin simply because the keeper has said "Nope, I don't think you're ready." or maybe something on your part.

If the Keeper doesn't think you're ready to undergo the ritual, I seriously doubt they'd send you to be their eyes and ears at the conclave.

[MrDynogames]

I guess that comes down to what the keeper thinks. They could think that spying is a simple enough task that a child could handle it. Perhaps since you lack Vallaslin that you'd more easily pass for an Elven servant. Plus didn't Merrill have a line in DA2 on how if a child is born with magic that they are apprenticed to a keeper? Maybe that's your situation, you were born with magic and sent to be apprenticed. Or hey, maybe this for you is your keepers test to see if you are ready for responsibility. I'm reminded of Cammen, despite the fact he had all the skills of a hunter, he was not one because he had yet to prove himself.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But telling them to get it done in a reasonable time-frame isn't. And if it is a requirement for full citizenship (like the vallaslin), then not getting marks you as immature and irresponsible by any objective standard. You will need to get them eventually, or you're not an adult.

 

If we we're playing eighteen year-olds, I'd agree with you. But as we're playing characters who range between the ages of twenty-forty (meaning that's anywhere between two and twenty-two years after we're supposed to get the vallaslin), it's just nonsense.

I see no nonsense in a Dalish in their early 20s not having them.

 

Source?

 

Quote and citation, please. And not the wiki.

"It is said that one day, we will have a land of our own. We Dalish gather the ancient wisdom in preparation for this. When that day comes, all elves -- even those who have forgotten -- will reclaim their former glory." - Lanaya

 

Do we?

 

I apologize for the double-post.

Yes, those who want Dalish tattoos for your characters get exactly what you want by them being mandatory. 

[MrDynogames]

Personally I do want the tattoos. I like how they look on my elves is all. But I do understand that there could be any number of reasons for them not to be present.

[n7stormrunner]

I see no nonsense in a Dalish in their early 20s not having them.

 

"It is said that one day, we will have a land of our own. We Dalish gather the ancient wisdom in preparation for this. When that day comes, all elves -- even those who have forgotten -- will reclaim their former glory." - Lanaya

 

Yes, those who want Dalish tattoos for your characters get exactly what you want by them being mandatory. 

 

 

yes god forbid bioware follow the lore. and how dare those evil, evil dalish want to share.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You're being deliberately obtuse.

The weapons are class-restricted. Like it or no, you are going to use a staff as a Mage.

If that is the case, I am unhappy about that.

But that wouldn't be the weapons being class-restricted. That would be the classes being weapon-restricted. Subtle difference.

That a staff can only be used by a mage isn't news. That mage must always have a staff equipped, however, would be.

And what way is that, Sylvius? Just plop it down in the game, no explanation whatsoever?

You document the lore. If a player cares about the lore in that playthrough, he'll abide by it.

That's digusting game design, the realm of amateurs and hacks. As you pointed out earlier, you can't just make something up as you go along.

I'd rather not make such strong value judgments.

They wouldn't be making anything up. The lore would persist. But the player would then have greater control over what sort of gameplay experience he had.

Why is it the rule of cool is so often used to defend combat mechanics or weapon design, but here it's apparently forbidden?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I guess that comes down to what the keeper thinks. They could think that spying is a simple enough task that a child could handle it. Perhaps since you lack Vallaslin that you'd more easily pass for an Elven servant. Plus didn't Merrill have a line in DA2 on how if a child is born with magic that they are apprenticed to a keeper? Maybe that's your situation, you were born with magic and sent to be apprenticed. Or hey, maybe this for you is your keepers test to see if you are ready for responsibility. I'm reminded of Cammen, despite the fact he had all the skills of a hunter, he was not one because he had yet to prove himself.  

Another reason could be that the Keeper wants to show you how good you have it as a Dalish by sending you to a place where you will be treated like dirt. 

 

 

yes god forbid bioware follow the lore. and how dare those evil, evil dalish want to share.

They can have all of the NPCs painted to their heart's content, but I take issue with them limiting options to those like me who wanted to play as an elf to just "Super Loyal Dalish or GTFO". 

As for them 'sharing', remember that many cultures who have conquered others were merely 'sharing' their culture. The Dalish have had it as a mandatory thing for centuries, so if they get in charge of an elven homeland I am perfectly justified by the evidence to suggest that non-Dalish elves will merely be trading one master for another. 

[KBomb]

I guess that comes down to what the keeper thinks. They could think that spying is a simple enough task that a child could handle it. Perhaps since you lack Vallaslin that you'd more easily pass for an Elven servant. Plus didn't Merrill have a line in DA2 on how if a child is born with magic that they are apprenticed to a keeper? Maybe that's your situation, you were born with magic and sent to be apprenticed. Or hey, maybe this for you is your keepers test to see if you are ready for responsibility. I'm reminded of Cammen, despite the fact he had all the skills of a hunter, he was not one because he had yet to prove himself.

Yeah, that makes little sense. It's kind of grasping at straws to think a child (Didn't a dev state the Inquisitor was between the ages of 25-40?) would be sent to spy on a very important issue. You would still have to leave the relative safety of your clan. You would need to be able to fully defend yourself and provide for yourself. You'd have to be skilled in communication and have a general knowlegde of the world outside of your clan. That being said, I can't imagine a child being tasked with it. People assume to spy you need to blend in, that isn't true.

Also, being born with magic isn't enough to be chosen as a First. It's a highly respected position and one is chosen carefully. As for Cammen, he was still considered a child. Being able to choose a mate by proving yourself as a provider really has nothing to do with the Vallaslin as mates can often be chosen before adulthood and the marriage carried out after the ritual.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yes, those who want Dalish tattoos for your characters get exactly what you want by them being mandatory.

They'd also get what they want if they were optional. I don't understand why options are bad.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They'd also get what they want if they were optional. I don't understand why options are bad.

Because apparently a few people having the option to have a character they want in their games somehow ruins everyone else's games. 

[n7stormrunner]

Another reason could be that the Keeper wants to show you how good you have it as a Dalish by sending you to a place where you will be treated like dirt. 

 

 

They can have all of the NPCs painted to their heart's content, but I take issue with them limiting options to those like me who wanted to play as an elf to just "Super Loyal Dalish or GTFO". 

As for them 'sharing', remember that many cultures who have conquered others were merely 'sharing' their culture. The Dalish have had it as a mandatory thing for centuries, so if they get in charge of an elven homeland I am perfectly justified by the evidence to suggest that non-Dalish elves will merely be trading one master for another. 

 

once again not loyal dalish would end up be not dalish in short order... dalish have tats, if you don't like don't be an elf this time around. i.

 

Because apparently a few people having the option to have a character they want in their games somehow ruins everyone else's games. 

 

 

then mod the game so you don't have to. I give it 3 months before their is one anyway.

[KBomb]

Because apparently a few people having the option to have a character they want in their games somehow ruins everyone else's games.

I think it's more of people wanting a consistent story that follows the lore instead of making adjustments for headcanons.

Personally, I don't care if it is an optional feature, but I do feel it dilutes the lore and story. Loads of people would love to play a dwarven mage and option or no, the general feel of the story and established lore would make it feel like a fanfiction version, instead of the story Bioware has crafted if one was implemented.

[falconlord5]

If that is the case, I am unhappy about that.

But that wouldn't be the weapons being class-restricted. That would be the classes being weapon-restricted. Subtle difference.

That a staff can only be used by a mage isn't news. That mage must always have a staff equipped, however, would be..

 

I don't see the difference, but I'm willing to concede the point.

 

 

You document the lore. If a player cares about the lore in that playthrough, he'll abide by it

 

Not likely. Player's butcher lore every chance they get, for the most asinine reasons.

 

No, if the devs make the lore, then they must stick to the lore. And if the players don't like it, well that's a darn shame. Better luck next time.

 

 

I'd rather not make such strong value judgments.

They wouldn't be making anything up. The lore would persist. But the player would then have greater control over what sort of gameplay experience he had.

Why is it the rule of cool is so often used to defend combat mechanics or weapon design, but here it's apparently forbidden?

 

Not by me. Rule of Gameplay/Fun, maybe. But never the Rule of Cool.

 

Certainly not in lore or continuity violations.

 

Because apparently a few people having the option to have a character they want in their games somehow ruins everyone else's games. 

 

Because everybody who's complaining has known for months, ever since they announced we could only play Dalish, that this was how it was going to be.

 

Quit the innocent victim act, it doesn't suit you.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

once again not loyal dalish would end up be not dalish in short order... dalish have tats, if you don't like don't be an elf this time around. i.

 

 

 

then mod the game so you don't have to. I give it 3 months before their is one anyway.

And yet people have come up with a few reasons already.

I'm allowed to complain about it. That's the reason these threads exist. To get information to fans from Bioware and to give feedback from fans to Bioware. 

 

I can't mod. And besides that, I disagree with the concept of modding. 

 

 

I think it's more of people wanting a consistent story that follows the lore instead of making adjustments for headcanons.

Personally, I don't care if it is an optional feature, but I do feel it dilutes the lore and story. Loads of people would love to play a dwarven mage and option or no, the general feel of the story and established lore would make it feel like a fanfiction version, instead of the story Bioware has crafted if one was implemented.

So they can put the tattoos on their characters. Just because someone in some other game gets the option not to doesn't make the entire story suddenly invalid for all other players. 

 

In no way, shape, or form does having an optional appearance on having no tattoos ruin the story for anyone unless they are metagaming to the point where they think every single copy of the game is connected, and if they are going that far then the game will be ruined no matter what they do. And there is a big difference between Dwarven Mage and a Dalish who doesn't have tattoos. Unless they are born with them, characters can exist without them. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't remember the devs saying we can't reject our upbringing. If we can it will only have occurred after we already got the tattoo.

If it occurred before it might call into question how our backstory can even be called "Dalish" to begin with. Then really the complaint shows to have its roots where some people just didn't want to play as a Dalish.

Oh, I've complained about having to be Dalish since the news came out months ago, but at least there was the possibility of being one who didn't like being one. With having to be forced into wearing the tattoos, that is forcing the player to have to go "My character was a good Dalish for the first 18 years of their lives.". It'd be like forcing the Human characters to be Pro-Andrastrian since their family is, which I know some in this thread hated with Hawke. 

[KBomb]

And yet people have come up with a few reasons already.
I'm allowed to complain about it. That's the reason these threads exist. To get information to fans from Bioware and to give feedback from fans to Bioware.

I can't mod. And besides that, I disagree with the concept of modding.


So they can put the tattoos on their characters. Just because someone in some other game gets the option not to doesn't make the entire story suddenly invalid for all other players.

In no way, shape, or form does having an optional appearance on having no tattoos ruin the story for anyone unless they are metagaming to the point where they think every single copy of the game is connected, and if they are going that far then the game will be ruined no matter what they do. And there is a big difference between Dwarven Mage and a Dalish who doesn't have tattoos. Unless they are born with them, characters can exist without them.

Vallaslin is an enormous part of dalish lore. It isn't just there for cosmetic purpose.

Breakdown is this: if you want to be a mage, you can't choose a dwarf. If you want a tattoo-faceless character, you can't choose a dalish. Lore establishes these characters to be set a certain way and that is how it is.

Same argument applies. One wants to be a dwarf and cast spells. You can't. One wants to be a dalish, yet not be associated with dalish customs. You can't.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Vallaslin is an enormous part of dalish lore. It isn't just there for cosmetic purpose.

Breakdown is this: if you want to be a mage, you can't choose a dwarf. If you want a tattoo-faceless character, you can't choose a dalish. Lore establishes these characters to be set a certain way and that is how it is.

Same argument applies. One wants to be a dwarf and cast spells. You can't. One wants to be a dalish, yet not be associated with dalish customs. You can't.

Doesn't change the fact that people have come up with reasons why a Da'len would be sent on the mission. 

 

Except I don't want to be Dalish. Many others don't as well. So a compromise would be letting those who don't want to be Dalish but want to be an Elf would be letting them be a tattooless elf. 

[n7stormrunner]

And yet people have come up with a few reasons already.

I'm allowed to complain about it. That's the reason these threads exist. To get information to fans from Bioware and to give feedback from fans to Bioware. 

 

I can't mod. And besides that, I disagree with the concept of modding. 

 

 

So they can put the tattoos on their characters. Just because someone in some other game gets the option not to doesn't make the entire story suddenly invalid for all other players. 

 

In no way, shape, or form does having an optional appearance on having no tattoos ruin the story for anyone unless they are metagaming to the point where they think every single copy of the game is connected, and if they are going that far then the game will be ruined no matter what they do. And there is a big difference between Dwarven Mage and a Dalish who doesn't have tattoos. Unless they are born with them, characters can exist without them. 

 

 

same game, same world, same lore. I don't really care what you do thats why I suggested moding. bioware stays true to their lore and you get what you want... ok not really because you want to be a human with pointy ears but oh well.

 

by all means go play some other game with elves I don't care... hell I point out a few if you need me to.

 

now I generally don't mod because most games on play on the computer are mmos. you bought the thing a long as your not pirating the game there is nothing wrong with changing things to be more to your liking... as long as you don't except bioware to do anything with it.

[drummerchick]

With having to be forced into wearing the tattoos, that is forcing the player to have to go "My character was a good Dalish for the first 18 years of their lives.". It'd be like forcing the Human characters to be Pro-Andrastrian since their family is, which I know some in this thread hated with Hawke. 

It pretty much is that way for the human rogue/warriors, too. My black sheep, anti-Chantry Trevelyan would have run off years ago. But I'm not given that option. Instead, this conclave thingy is his ticket outta here.

We just don't have a blank slate to work with for our PCs. Maybe it would be cool for a future game if we did? But Bioware is telling more specific stories within the game by having generalized backgrounds, and we only get to control (with limitations) what happens in the PC's life within the time frame of the game.

But it definitely does not hurt to come here and express our desires and opinions.  The devs do peek at these threads. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

same game, same world, same lore. I don't really care what you do thats why I suggested moding. bioware stays true to their lore and you get what you want... ok not really because you want to be a human with pointy ears but oh well.

 

by all means go play some other game with elves I don't care... hell I point out a few if you need me to.

 

now I generally don't mod because most games on play on the computer are mmos. you bought the thing a long as your not pirating the game there is nothing wrong with changing things to be more to your liking... as long as you don't except bioware to do anything with it.

No, I don't want to be "Human with pointy ears". Suggesting all non-Dalish elves are just that is no more accurate than humans saying they are like the Dalish. They are their our cultures. 

 

So honestly explain to me: why can't it be there AS AN OPTION! Unless every other conversation is going to be about your tattoos, I see no good reason for it being forced. 

 

 

It pretty much is that way for the human rogue/warriors, too. My black sheep, anti-Chantry Trevelyan would have run off years ago. But I'm not given that option. Instead, this conclave thingy is his ticket outta here.

We just don't have a blank slate to work with for our PCs. Maybe it would be cool for a future game if we did? But Bioware is telling more specific stories within the game by having generalized backgrounds, and we only get to control (with limitations) what happens in the PC's life within the time frame of the game.

But it definitely does not hurt to come here and express our desires and opinions.    The devs do peek at these threads. 

Except in the description it says "despite your feelings on the matter". So in that backstory you can clearly be against it. So why not with the elves as well? 

 

I'm not asking for a blank slate. I'm asking for a blank face and the ability to have misgivings about a culture.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Not likely. Player's butcher lore every chance they get, for the most asinine reasons.

If that makes the game more fun for that player, why not let him?

Not by me. Rule of Gameplay/Fun, maybe. But never the Rule of Cool.

Fine, fun then.

That's even better, given that every person has a different standard of fun.

[Patchwork]

If modding can be figured out with the new engine I wont be surprised if we get elven tal-vashoth or adopted Trevelyans pretty quickly. 

 

Qunari Hawke's were possible within two months. 

[KBomb]

Doesn't change the fact that people have come up with reasons why a Da'len would be sent on the mission.

Except I don't want to be Dalish. Many others don't as well. So a compromise would be letting those who don't want to be Dalish but want to be an Elf would be letting them be a tattooless elf.

But the dalish inquisitor isn't a child. Bioware established this character a certain way and they aren't responsible for your headcanons.

If you don't want to play a dalish, you're going to have to do what everyone else does and choose something else. Or better yet, if you can headcanon numerous reasons why your dalish can be tattoo free, then you can surely come up with reasons why they were forced to have Vallaslin. Again, the writers aren't responsible to make your headcanon makes sense within the confines of the story.

How many people here wants to play a dwarf mage? A human commoner? A Qun following Qunari? A City elf? A dalish Keeper? We can't. They can't. We have to choose what is present for us and build a character from there. It is how it works when playing a game with established lore and story. Bioware allows us to mold the story somewhat, but they still provide the clay.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But the dalish inquisitor isn't a child. Bioware established this character a certain way and they aren't responsible for your headcanons.

If you don't want to play a dalish, you're going to have to do what everyone else does and choose something else. Or better yet, if you can headcanon numerous reasons why your dalish can be tattoo free, then you can surely come up with reasons why they were forced to have Vallaslin. Again, the writers aren't responsible to make your headcanon makes sense within the confines of the story.

How many people here wants to play a dwarf mage? A human commoner? A Qun following Qunari? A City elf? A dalish Keeper? We can't. They can't. We have to choose what is present for us and build a character from there. It is how it works when playing a game with established lore and story. Bioware allows us to mold the story somewhat, but they still provide the clay.

Not really, since Vallaslin isn't forced onto the person. But hey, if they have a "My clan held me down while they applied it, me kicking and screaming the whole time" then fine, I'll accept that. But we both know they won't. I'm just afraid our only options will be a few shades of "Yes, Keeper. No, Keeper. Can't have any fun with a stick up my a**, Keeper." character since they are limiting it this much. 

 

Again, big difference between completely different plotlines and an option in the CC.