494 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow Fox]

Mine were: "Sweet elves are in! Dalish only? Sweet elves are in again!"

Pretty much.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Boohoo? You barely knew anything about the game and yet you managed to lay out plans so detailed that they were completely shattered by 4 fairly vague backgrounds... I don't think the problem is on Bioware's end.

I never said the problem was on Bioware's end. I'm not saying they should change it for me, just that I'm upset that my plans are ruined. I know the fault is on me. 

[Magdalena11]

I hope there are more vallaslin available this time, including some old and a lot of new.  I'm really hoping for some delicately drawn ones, in addition to the heavier, blockier ones we've seen a lot of.  I'd really love one that was like vine tendrils across one cheek and eye, but will be happy with anything nature-inspired that doesn't look like teeth, claws, or thorns.  I also hope they eventually get around to codifying the symbolism of the patterns, so those that identify with a particular deity or aspect of a deity can select something appropriate.

[Shadow Fox]

I never said the problem was on Bioware's end. I'm not saying they should change it for me, just that I'm upset that my plans are ruined. I know the fault is on me. 

Reminds me of my Pokemon plans

 

"What the **** you mean I can't get Scyther,Ekans,Murkrow or Electabuzz in Leaf Green?!"

[KBomb]

I can't imagine you'd be given such an important task if you were considered rebellious. Dalish are raised to be proud of their race and traditions. If you refused to partake in such a valued and honored tradition-- it would be like turning your back on your clan, on who you are. Some city elves are loathed and looked down upon because the dalish feel they've turned their backs on who they are. That being said, why would a Keeper trust you enough to carry out a task of such great import to a clan member who would deny tradition?

Blending in isn't really needed either. Thousands of people from all over Thedas will be there. City elves would not be the only ones interested in the conclave. I am sure many dalish will be there. Being eyes and ears doesn't nessecarily mean being incognito. I don't imagine Iron Bull would blend in anywhere and Sten certainly didn't blend in Fereldan.

You have facial tattoos because you're a dalish and the plot most likely needs you to be recognized as such. Quite simple.

[Ryzaki]

eww mandatory face tattoos?

 

More and more I'm baffled as to why CEs were excluded

 

Ah well.

 

Qunari being from a mercenary group tho? That works perfectly for my snarky Qunari fem mage. XD she likes making things explode.

[Shadow Fox]

I can't imagine you'd be given such an important task if you were considered rebellious. Dalish are raised to be proud of their race and traditions. If you refused to partake in such a valued and honored tradition-- it would be like turning your back on your clan, on who you are. Some city elves are loathed and looked down upon because the dalish feel they've turned their backs on who they are. That being said, why would a Keeper trust you enough to carry out a task of such great import to a clan member who would deny tradition?

Blending in isn't really needed either. Thousands of people from all over Thedas will be there. City elves would not be the only ones interested in the conclave. I am sure many dalish will be there. Being eyes and ears doesn't nessecarily mean being incognito. I don't imagine Iron Bull would blend in anywhere and Sten certainly didn't blend in Fereldan.

You have facial tattoos because you're a dalish and the plot most likely needs you to be recognized as such. Quite simple.

Accepting/receiving those tattoos doesn't mean you have to agree with everything the Dalish do it just means they see you as an adult.

[Uirebhiril]

I'm a little confused by why someone would want to play an elf but not want to do the things elves do - like have the tattoos. That's as much being the elf as having the pointed ears if you're playing Dalish. It's a part of who they are. If it's a case of wanting to be terminally unique and the "different" one that doesn't fit in or wants to change how things are, it seems that the cluster**** that happens at the start of the game and everything that follows is your opportunity to do that. Dialogue choices will no doubt offer options to shape who your character is and what they believe. This stuff doesn't have to all have come before the game starts. It's an exploration and an option to really learn your character and what they feel, not the be-all-end-all destruction of hopes and dreams.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm a little confused by why someone would want to play an elf but not want to do the things elves do - like have the tattoos. That's as much being the elf as having the pointed ears if you're playing Dalish. It's a part of who they are. If it's a case of wanting to be terminally unique and the "different" one that doesn't fit in or wants to change how things are, it seems that the cluster**** that happens at the start of the game and everything that follows is your opportunity to do that. Dialogue choices will no doubt offer options to shape who your character is and what they believe. This stuff doesn't have to all have come before the game starts. It's an exploration and an option to really learn your character and what they feel, not the be-all-end-all destruction of hopes and dreams.

Because wanting to play an elf =/= wanting to play a Dalish elf. 

[Ryzaki]

Because wanting to play an elf =/= wanting to play a Dalish elf. 

 

Come to the human side. We have cookies and numbers *offers cookies*

 

Plus we can be black sheep XD

 

More ways humans are superior.

[Shadow Fox]

I'm a little confused by why someone would want to play an elf but not want to do the things elves do - like have the tattoos. That's as much being the elf as having the pointed ears if you're playing Dalish. It's a part of who they are. If it's a case of wanting to be terminally unique and the "different" one that doesn't fit in or wants to change how things are, it seems that the cluster**** that happens at the start of the game and everything that follows is your opportunity to do that. Dialogue choices will no doubt offer options to shape who your character is and what they believe. This stuff doesn't have to all have come before the game starts. It's an exploration and an option to really learn your character and what they feel, not the be-all-end-all destruction of hopes and dreams.

Well the Dalish tattoos in Origins looked ugly to me  and I hate tattoos in general with some exceptions.

[Uirebhiril]

Because wanting to play an elf =/= wanting to play a Dalish elf. 

 

I understand that, but that is the only option offered, so either you're Dalish with all that comes with it (until your choices make it apparent otherwise in game) or you play a human instead. I might be disappointed too if I wanted to play one thing but only had another option available, but I can't make my Inquisitor related to Warden Aeducan no matter how much I want to be from a royal dwarf family, you know?

[Hrungr]

While I didn't care for all the Dalish tattoos in DA:O, I've always like this one...

 

 

That said, from what we've seen, there are definitely new ones in DAI - maybe even all new...

[KBomb]

Accepting/receiving those tattoos doesn't mean you have to agree with everything the Dalish do it just means they see you as an adult.

It's much more than being seen as an adult. It's steeped in tradition and is a huge part of your culture and part of who you are. The dalish wear their Vallaslin as not only a rite of passage, but as a symbol of who they are, where they come from, their struggles, their accomplishments. They grasp every single shred of their past and embrace it proudly. Not getting a Vallaslin willingly would most likely be seen as an insult, as rebelling against your culture. Not agreeing with every single thing is quite different than saying, "As a protest of our belief system, I am forgoing this ritual."

Why would a Keeper make you a First if you held those beliefs? Why would a Keeper entrust a protector of the clan, a provider of the clan-- with such an important task, if the Keeper sees you as a rebel or someone who is willing to let traditions and rituals be cast aside because you don't agree with something? Anyone who has met the dalish has to agree with the fact that those beliefs and traditions are ALL they talk about. They are extremely important to them.

[HK-90210]

I'm a little confused by why someone would want to play an elf but not want to do the things elves do - like have the tattoos. That's as much being the elf as having the pointed ears if you're playing Dalish. It's a part of who they are. If it's a case of wanting to be terminally unique and the "different" one that doesn't fit in or wants to change how things are, it seems that the cluster**** that happens at the start of the game and everything that follows is your opportunity to do that. Dialogue choices will no doubt offer options to shape who your character is and what they believe. This stuff doesn't have to all have come before the game starts. It's an exploration and an option to really learn your character and what they feel, not the be-all-end-all destruction of hopes and dreams.

 

Because I hate playing a character who went on autopilot until the point we get to play them. Where a character comes from is as important as what they go through. So if the Dalish is our only option for playing an elf, then I for one would like a little latitude in that regard.

 

The idea of a Dalish mage who really doesn't like how the Dalish leave the city elves to rot, as well as thinks they would do better trying to be a part of the world, rather than hiding from it, is a unique and interesting POV I'd like to play. And one idea I had with that was for this Dalish elf to refuse to have the tattoos. It would be a consistent sign of his disdain for his own culture's traditionalism and hardline isolationist tendencies.

 

Am I upset about this? Not really. Frankly, I can just as easily imagine him getting the tattoos out of formality, but doing his best to artificially fade them, so they aren't as noticeable. Especially once he finds out that his Keeper wants him to go on a secret spy mission. His best guess as to why she sent him is to get him out of her hair, I think. Afterall, he would make a terrible First, and an even worse Keeper, despite his considerable magical talent.

 

Just like some people want to play a human who dislikes the Chantry and doesn't believe in the Maker, I want to play a Dalish who doesn't believe in the Creators and dislikes the way the Dalish do things.

 

In other words, I want to play the Dalish Dorian. Take one guess as to who I'm hoping he'll romance....

[Shadow Fox]

It's much more than being seen as an adult. It's steeped in tradition and is a huge part of your culture and part of who you are. The dalish wear their Vallaslin as not only a rite of passage, but as a symbol of who they are, where they come from, their struggles, their accomplishments. They grasp every single shred of their past and embrace it proudly. Not getting a Vallaslin willingly would most likely be seen as an insult, as rebelling against your culture. Not agreeing with every single thing is quite different than saying, "As a protest of our belief system, I am forgoing this ritual."

Why would a Keeper make you a First if you held those beliefs? Why would a Keeper entrust a protector of the clan, a provider of the clan-- with such an important task, if the Keeper sees you as a rebel or someone who is willing to let traditions and rituals be cast aside because you don't agree with something? Anyone who has met the dalish has to agree with the fact that those beliefs and traditions are ALL they talk about. They are extremely important to them.

Misinterpreted what you said I have.

 

Sorry bout that man but so many seem to think Dalish= You have to be a whiny human hating bigot who regurgitates whatever the elders tell them.

[KBomb]

Misinterpreted what you said I have.

Sorry bout that man but so many seem to think Dalish= You have to be a whiny human hating bigot who regurgitates whatever the elders tell them.

No need to be sorry! You can still role a dalish who is open-minded and one who wishes to bring peace between the races. I certainly plan to do that with at least one elf.

I remember my first Dalish in Origins. I started out with her hating humans, but as she got out into the world, her views changed. Before that I hated the dalish(still do really), but she ended up being my favorite PC.

[Uirebhiril]

Just like some people want to play a human who dislikes the Chantry and doesn't believe in the Maker, I want to play a Dalish who doesn't believe in the Creators and dislikes the way the Dalish do things.

 

That I do understand, but the tattoo doesn't mean you can't do that anyway. There's any number of reasons an elf might still have the tattoos. Perhaps they came to their conclusions after they entered adulthood. Maybe they had them done as a formality anyway. Presumably if the character really didn't like the Dalish or how they do things, they'd have left already. It might not be the story you wanted to start with, but it's not the end of the world.

 

I say this with having had similar ideas for a character. Less about hating the Dalish and not believing in the Creators and more being tired with how the elves have let themselves stagnate. The character didn't agree with everything, but still loved their people. They still had pride in being an elf and wouldn't change that, even if they wanted the elves to change. The backstory I created in my head might not even matter with everything going on in the game world, but what it does do is give me a feel for how the character will react and what choices they will make. That was always going to be true no matter what background a race ended up with.

[Shadow Fox]

No need to be sorry! You can still role a dalish who is open-minded and one who wishes to bring peace between the races. I certainly plan to do that with at least one elf.

I remember my first Dalish in Origins. I started out with her hating humans, but as she got out into the world, her views changed. Before that I hated the dalish(still do really), but she ended up being my favorite PC.

Note: I also wasn't saying all Dalish are whiny racists simply that it seems to be the attitude on the forums. 

[LobselVith8]

Misinterpreted what you said I have.

 

Sorry bout that man but so many seem to think Dalish= You have to be a whiny human hating bigot who regurgitates whatever the elders tell them.

 

A lot of people tend to disregard the fact that the Dalish are varied and different, and look down on them because they conflate the actions of some of the Dalish with the behavior of the entirety of the People. People ignore how Dalish elves like Lanaya, Elora, Cammen, Merrill, Gheyna, Athras, and Deygan didn't treat the protagonist with scorn, instead thinking that everyone acted like Sarel - disregarding how the story-teller only acted that way because his wife was recently murdered by the werewolves. At this point, you should simply focus on the positive (which is that a Dalish protagonist is once again available), because some people won't change their minds no matter what you say.

[Shadow Fox]

A lot of people tend to disregard the fact that the Dalish are varied and different, and look down on them because they conflate the actions of some of the Dalish with the behavior of the entirety of the People. People ignore how Dalish elves like Lanaya, Elora, Cammen, Merrill, Gheyna, Athras, and Deygan didn't treat the protagonist with scorn, instead thinking that everyone acted like Sarel - disregarding how the story-teller only acted that way because his wife was recently murdered by the werewolves. At this point, you simply simply focus on the positive (which is that a Dalish protagonist is once again available), because some people won't change their minds no matter what you say.

Well I'm not a Dalish defender usually but I find it odd that people think Dalish pc=racist ******* drone when even in Origins you could be tolerant and question a key point of your history.*whether the March was unprovoked or not*

 

Plus most of them in Origins were alright.

 

in 2 I only liked Merril,Feynriel's mom and the Keeper though...

[Ryzaki]

It's not like there's people on the other side who assume an human protagonist is a racist (or have companions act like they're such) or if they're Andrastian must be rabid anti mage and such.

 

Both sides have people that try to make the other into mustache twirling villians. *shrug*

[KBomb]

Note: I also wasn't saying all Dalish are whiny racists simply that it seems to be the attitude on the forums.

Yep. I know.

[Shadow Fox]

It's not like there's people on the other side who assume an human protagonist is a racist (or have companions act like they're such) or if they're Andrastian must be rabid anti mage and such.

 

Both sides have people that try to make the other into mustache twirling villians. *shrug*

True

[HK-90210]

That I do understand, but the tattoo doesn't mean you can't do that anyway. There's any number of reasons an elf might still have the tattoos. Perhaps they came to their conclusions after they entered adulthood. Maybe they had them done as a formality anyway. Presumably if the character really didn't like the Dalish or how they do things, they'd have left already. It might not be the story you wanted to start with, but it's not the end of the world.

 

I say this with having had similar ideas for a character. Less about hating the Dalish and not believing in the Creators and more being tired with how the elves have let themselves stagnate. The character didn't agree with everything, but still loved their people. They still had pride in being an elf and wouldn't change that, even if they wanted the elves to change. The backstory I created in my head might not even matter with everything going on in the game world, but what it does do is give me a feel for how the character will react and what choices they will make. That was always going to be true no matter what background a race ended up with.

 

Yeah....still, the dream of a hardcore renegade Dalish elf is gone. It was a nice dream. Still, it could add to my Dalish Inquisitor's resentment of his culture, having to tattoo his face in order to be taken seriously. "I've done everything you've asked me to do, but unless I put some dumb writing on my face, I'm not an adult? Screw you!"

 

I was also taking a picture from Merril's book, and having him being taken from his clan to serve as apprentice in his current clan due to a lack of mages in the Lavallan clan. Course, if Bioware actually features your family in DA:I, that idea is up in smoke too. *sigh* Such are the risks of creating a character's background without actually playing the game. Bioware has driven me to this, though. Constant delays, almost no detailed info on the backgrounds until now...I had no choice. I had no choice!

 

I've also got another 'less-traditional' Dalish warrior who is going to have the most ornate tattoo possible, though. She's going to be a lot of fun. Very snarky. The idea of a Dalish with a good sense of humor is very funny to me, for some reason. They always seem so serious in previous games.