494 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

You forgot the part where the Dales cut a swath of death and destruction through Orlais first. 

 

Speculative, as we don't actually know who struck the first blow.

[TheEternalStudent]

You forgot the part where the Dales cut a swath of death and destruction through Orlais first. 

An Incident occured, history is unclear, that lead to war between Orlais and the Dales. Orlais was getting thier asses kicked, and all of a sudden the Chantry decided it was the obligation of all Maker-fearing Andastians to fight these menaces, and end it by taking back the Dales, and telling the elves to live as second-class citizens.
Germany got a better deal at the Treaty of Versailles, and that lead to a World War.

[Shadow Fox]

Elves like the Dalish are the reason the Dales got invaded in the 1st place with their anti human isolationist beliefs & obsession with immortality, & tbh, the non elven warden & Hawke would have likely faced death by arrow without MC plot armour.

Actually in both cases the pc was warned to leave rather then shot at*smacks Tamlen  * in Origins case they only threaten you after the Warden starts acting like an ass.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Speculative, as we don't actually know who struck the first blow.

No, we know that the Dales pushed into Orlais before Orlais pushed into the Dales. Whether the Chantry did anything first is irrelevant since Orlais is not the Chantry. 

[Shadow Fox]

An Incident occured, history is unclear, that lead to war between Orlais and the Dales. Orlais was getting thier asses kicked, and all of a sudden the Chantry decided it was the obligation of all Maker-fearing Andastians to fight these menaces, and end it by taking back the Dales, and telling the elves to live as second-class citizens.
Germany got a better deal at the Treaty of Versailles, and that lead to a World War.

Can we please not invoke Godwin's Law when talking about fictional races and wars please?

[TheEternalStudent]

No, we know that the Dales pushed into Orlais before Orlais pushed into the Dales. Whether the Chantry did anything first is irrelevant since Orlais is not the Chantry. 

But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered. Some took refuge in the cities of the shemlen, living in squalor, tolerated only a little better than vermin.-According to the Dales
 

But the old era wasn't through with them. In their forest city, the elves turned again to worship their silent, ancient gods. They became increasingly isolationist, posting Emerald Knights who guarded their borders with jealousy, rebuking all efforts at trade or civilized discourse. Dark rumors spread in the lands that bordered the Dales, whispers of humans captured and sacrificed to elven gods.

And then came an attack by the elves on the defenseless village of Red Crossing. The Chantry replied with the Exalted March of the Dales, and the era of the elven kingdom came to an end. Halamshiral was utterly destroyed, the elves driven out, scattered, left to survive on goodwill alone.-According to the Chantry

Two Codex entries for the Dales
(Which as an aside, was a BRILLIANT aspect of Origins, one I want to continue in Inquisition)

 

 

Can we please not invoke Godwin's Law when talking about fictional races and wars please?

I'm not comparing anyone to Hitler, I'm saying wars have been started over less. The treaty of Versailles is simply one of the most extreme examples, and it doesn't even match the ficticous example.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered. Some took refuge in the cities of the shemlen, living in squalor, tolerated only a little better than vermin.-According to the Dales
 

But the old era wasn't through with them. In their forest city, the elves turned again to worship their silent, ancient gods. They became increasingly isolationist, posting Emerald Knights who guarded their borders with jealousy, rebuking all efforts at trade or civilized discourse. Dark rumors spread in the lands that bordered the Dales, whispers of humans captured and sacrificed to elven gods.

And then came an attack by the elves on the defenseless village of Red Crossing. The Chantry replied with the Exalted March of the Dales, and the era of the elven kingdom came to an end. Halamshiral was utterly destroyed, the elves driven out, scattered, left to survive on goodwill alone.-According to the Chantry

Two Codex entries for the Dales
(Which as an aside, was a BRILLIANT aspect of Origins, one I want to continue in Inquisition)

And this disproves that the Dales attacked Orlais before Orlais attacked the Dales...how exactly? 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

You forgot the part where the Dales cut a swath of death and destruction through Orlais first.

That seems to be regularly ignored, some people go on about how the evil Chantry unjustly called for war against the Dales over the elves not converting but they only got involved after a weakened Orlais was already fighting for its life against elven invasion & then asked that the elves be given places to live at the wars end, they could have easily encouraged extermination but they didn't.

[HiroVoid]

This isn't a 'Discuss the Dalish's history with the Chantry' thread.  It would be better to take that to a topic where that's the focus.

[TheEternalStudent]

That seems to be regularly ignored, some people go on about how the evil Chantry unjustly called for war against the Dales over the elves not converting but they only got involved after a weakened Orlais was already fighting for its life against elven invasion & then asked that the elves be given places to live at the wars end, they could have easily encouraged extermination but they didn't.

Congratulations the Chantry didn't encourage GENOCIDE.
That's your argument? And the Chantry is a religous institution, they call Exalted Marches on religous grounds. The elves victories were apparently sufficent grounds to reclassify the Dalish as ungodly heathens that must be driven back, until they have no where else to go. Then you have a vast labor pool to tap into.
Yes, truly the mercy of the Chantry knows no bounds.*

*This statement might have a tiny bit of sarcasm*

[Roamingmachine]

A thread about elven tattoos gets derailed with many familiar names in evidence, suprising absolutely no-one.  On topic, I am happy that the tattoos are mandatory but rather miffed that bioware is withholding/has no idea about the actual meanings of the tattoos. Those are basic race lore, not some super-secret design decisions.

[Heimdall]

Congratulations the Chantry didn't encourage GENOCIDE.
That's your argument? And the Chantry is a religous institution, they call Exalted Marches on religous grounds. The elves victories were apparently sufficent grounds to reclassify the Dalish as ungodly heathens that must be driven back, until they have no where else to go. Then you have a vast labor pool to tap into.
Yes, truly the mercy of the Chantry knows no bounds.*

*This statement might have a tiny bit of sarcasm*

I think it had more to do with the Dalish forces marching on Val Royeaux, the heart of both Orlais and the Chantry. Were they supposed to calmly watch as the Grand Cathedral was sacked?

[LobselVith8]

A thread about elven tattoos gets derailed with many familiar names in evidence, suprising absolutely no-one.  On topic, I am happy that the tattoos are mandatory but rather miffed that bioware is withholding/has no idea about the actual meanings of the tattoos. Those are basic race lore, not some super-secret design decisions.

 

It does make the prospect of using appropriate vallaslin difficult when you don't know which Creator the design actually corresponds to.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

A thread about elven tattoos gets derailed with many familiar names in evidence, suprising absolutely no-one.  On topic, I am happy that the tattoos are mandatory but rather miffed that bioware is withholding/has no idea about the actual meanings of the tattoos. Those are basic race lore, not some super-secret design decisions.

Yeah, if I'm forced to wear it I'd at least like to know which deity I have plastered on my face. 

[Uirebhiril]

Even if there is no way to have the information in the game itself during character creation, it'd be nice to have something official posted somewhere about it. At least we have the option of having a good guess for now.

[HiroVoid]

It'd be neat if they could at least release the deities for each Tattoo right before/on release online if it can't be included in the character creator.

[TheEternalStudent]

I think it had more to do with the Dalish forces marching on Val Royeaux, the heart of both Orlais and the Chantry. Were they supposed to calmly watch as the Grand Cathedral was sacked?

I'm not claiming they should have done that, I'm saying this was 100% a political self-enlightened move to decide they were heathens, and take back the Dales.
And that's why the Dalish don't like humans, because humans keep screwing them over.
Well, that and the fact that they don't even care because of revisionist history, but that last might be more me than the Dales.

[LobselVith8]

Even if there is no way to have the information in the game itself during character creation, it'd be nice to have something official posted somewhere about it. At least we have the option of having a good guess for now.

 

I'm hoping the developers change their minds and post the meaning of all the available vallaslin for the players who are interested in using accurate designs to best represent their character.

[Icy Magebane]

But they're all in-game reasons. If a player doesn't care about that, why force him to play in that way?

By choosing a "Dalish elf" as your character, you are selecting everything that comes with that, not just the small frame and pointy ears.  An adult Dailsh without vallaslin makes about as much sense as a casteless dwarf without a brand.  It is the writers' responsibility to maintain internal consistency between our avatars and the world the game takes place in.  Ignoring details that are uniform throughout certain cultures and granting unwarranted exceptions to the PC is the first step in destroying suspension of disbelief.

[Heimdall]

I'm not claiming they should have done that, I'm saying this was 100% a political self-enlightened move to decide they were heathens, and take back the Dales.
And that's why the Dalish don't like humans, because humans keep screwing them over.
Well, that and the fact that they don't even care because of revisionist history, but that last might be more me than the Dales.

I still think the Dalish bare more than a small portion of blame for what happened to them. Alienage's and the like only came into being as a backlash to the war. The Canticle of Shartan was only stripped from the Chant after the war as well. Point being, much of modern human/Andrastian ill feeling for the elves has its origins in what the elves of the Dales did in Orlais.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I'm hoping the developers change their minds and post the meaning of all the available vallaslin for the players who are interested in using accurate designs to best represent their character.

Maybe some codex entries could work if playing as a Dalish?

[Shadow Fox]

This isn't a 'Discuss the Dalish's history with the Chantry' thread.  It would be better to take that to a topic where that's the focus.

All Dalish threads turn to this...ALL OF THEM.

[Uirebhiril]

I'm hoping the developers change their minds and post the meaning of all the available vallaslin for the players who are interested in using accurate designs to best represent their character.

 

That's something else I've wondered about. What goes into choosing which tattoo an elf gets on their face? Are all hunter/warrior types supposed to have Andruil's, or can they choose Dirthamen's tattoo if they prefer that god for whatever reason? If they are good with herbs and delivering babies, must they always have Sylaise's tattoo even if they'd rather have June's due to their interest and abilities with macrame? Maybe I missed a codex somewhere that explained this, but I certainly don't remember.

[Sylvius the Mad]

By choosing a "Dalish elf" as your character, you are selecting everything that comes with that, not just the small frame and pointy ears. An adult Dailsh without vallaslin makes about as much sense as a casteless dwarf without a brand. It is the writers' responsibility to maintain internal consistency between our avatars and the world the game takes place in. Ignoring details that are uniform throughout certain cultures and granting unwarranted exceptions to the PC is the first step in destroying suspension of disbelief.

I think that should be each player's choice.

[LobselVith8]

Maybe some codex entries could work if playing as a Dalish?

 

You mean codex entries available on the official website? That could work. I would hope for something prior to the character creation; there have been efforts to correspond existing designs to Creators, but some of the screenshots from Inquisition present brand new designs, so the previous efforts likely wouldn't work unless some of the existing designs are going to be available again.