440 réponses à ce sujet

[Puppy Love]

Aren't we sort of having two difference conversations? One about how women are depicted in fantasy RPGs, and one about Isabella specifically? I agree on the larger issue about women in RPGs, but I don't think Isabella is a particularly good example because I do feel that the stylistic choice with her has more to do with her personality in general than anything else. And not just her views on sex. She is presented as supremely confident in her combat abilities, including simply not being there when her opponent strikes. Her defensive style isn't being able to shrug off blows, it's moving completely out of the way of an attack, or twisting and rolling so it doesn't strike her full on. And, yes, her attitude towards sex is part of her outfit as well, but not just the mechanical act of the thing. She believes in freedom above everything, and does not give one single crap about how other people feel about her choices. The argument that her outfit would be really out of place and make people uncomfortable is sort of why she wears is. 

 

As to the post above mine about providing choice, again I say that DA2 isn't really the best game to use for that argument, because you DO have a choice. Avaline is pretty much the exact opposite to Isabella in nearly every regard. The game also has Cassandra, who, although not a companion, is an armored warrior. 

 

But I agree on the whole with the fact that women in RPGs tend to be oversexualized pieces of eye-candy. The issue is that is needs to be okay to have this type of character once in a while, because some women, like Puppy Love, enjoy that kind of content and the types of characters that are willing to present themselves in this way. I assume she would have an issue with a female character who was like this just for the sake of being like this and without any characterization to back it up, but I don't actually know her. 

 

If Aveline was wearing Isabella's outfit I would definitely not approve.

[Puppy Love]

And honestly I'm not really a fan of Isabella or her character.  She irritated me, and I agree she wears a bit too little.  I really picture her with at least pants for one.  (Yes I agreed with that, just not the lack of pants being impractical...  really getting sick of that word being thrown around for everything in this topic.)

 

Was using her because so much of her character was anti the armored extreme and figured seeing how they'd equip her while considered the whole of her personality into the overall outfit might be a good experiment. 

[WashclothRepairMan]

I was a little disappointed by them, but it doesn't bother me that much.

 

Plus, if you're playing DAI properly, there will undoubtedly be mods sexisfying all the companions (and the armors, if you're into that).

[Nefla]

Yeah and frustrating to us in the middle that think both sides are insane and extreme.

 

The main reason I'd like to know and see what the other side thinks is acceptable for her to be wearing while still demonstrating her personality is because they can't ignore it has to be sexy as it's too much a part of her character, and any attempt should end more towards the middle as a result, and MIGHT lead to a compromisable position.

Mostly I would have liked to see her with pants since sexy and promiscuous or no, running around in your underwear/PJs is weird and doesn't make sense. I also think it would be better to have both her arms protected instead of just one. Working some metal parts in to the arms and legs would help to block or just do more damage to an enemy if you hit or kick them. Also I think it would be awesome if she had a long coat but that's just my own personal desire for a cool, pirate, captain's coat. I think you can still keep her sexy and the changes aren't that big:

 

Spoiler

[Bugsie]

Mostly I would have liked to see her with pants since sexy and promiscuous or no, running around in your underwear/PJs is weird and doesn't make sense. I also think it would be better to have both her arms protected instead of just one. Working some metal parts in to the arms and legs would help to block or just do more damage to an enemy if you hit or kick them. Also I think it would be awesome if she had a long coat but that's just my own personal desire for a cool, pirate, captain's coat. I think you can still keep her sexy and the changes aren't that big:
 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Aheehee...

[Nefla]

Spoiler

Aheehee...

It's not a cape, it's a coat with no sleeves, so she's immune to being sucked into a plane engine I swear!

[Ryzaki]

I'm all for sharing on all sides of this issue for both sexes, and encouraging more armor in the middle, but I don't see many on the practical armor side of the issue willing to do so.  Too many insisting that if they see anything else they won't buy the product, and insinuating anyone who wants anything else is an objectifying pervert intent on the degradation of women.

 

I want variety, that's all I'm asking for.  And I get bombarded with long arguments about realism in a fantasy game, and if I don't get that, it's always about how all these other games have half naked chicks with jiggle physics so I should go play that (which I happen to also find offensive btw as that's purely for sex appeal and not just something that's pretty that also happens to have a bit of sex appeal), or sims which I have zero interest in (like watching computer people doing random things is interesting.)

 

I have no issues with people like you willing to share, I want more people like you to say you're willing to share, because the "must be completely practical side" is shouting a lot louder than those that are willing to share.

 

This just might have to do with the fact that for years that's all we got. I'm sorry but I for one and sick and tired of females pretty much being eyecandy while the guys look like they're there to get **** done. It's ridiculous.

 

Now if everyone was sexified and looking like runway models I would shrug and move on. But 9 times out of 10 the female is the one with all the "but there's nothing wrong with looking SEXY" while the males are allowed to be ugly/gruff/scars all over the place while wearing their massive armor and the female in comparison looks she's about to go to the club.

 

You'd help your argument a hell of a lot more if you didn't feel the need to act like being fully armored is being nun like. Saying you prefer your avatar to look like X is one thing, saying avatars that look like X are nuns (like what?) is something else.

 

Resources are limited so if there must be one or the other I'd rather there be practical armor. I can get fetishized armor in many other titles and no they're not all anime dating sims. (I mean if it was just relegated to those types of games in the first place a lot of us wouldn't have the issue we have with said depictions.) The issue is they're common. And I for one am damned tired of it.

I mean I can't see how you're surprised you're getting pushback when you're trying to tie attractiveness to how armored someone is. I find my characters absolutely beautiful. And all of them are fully armored. (wait I take that back most of them are fully armored.) Massive armor =/= ugly and shapeless.

[Nefla]

Now I want to be a fully armored, armed, and operational battle nun

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Now I want to be a fully armored, armed, and operational battle nun

So...DAI Leliana then? 

[Ryzaki]

Now I want to be a fully armored, armed, and operational battle nun

 

lol

 

But this will forever be my favorite armor for my fem warriors

Spoiler

 

Yeah I know SO BRIGHT but it's Gree. It's supposed to be obnoxious doesn't look too bad on Hoth XD

 

To me it's attractive, minimal and looks neigh identical to the male version. There's no unnecessary belly button on this or unnecessary cleavage.

 

Edit: This is not to say that those outfits are shunned. My smuggler is running around in the unfettered trenchoat. (which is pretty much a trenchoat with a bra on.) but she's not expecting to get into heavy combat most of the time. Hell usually if she finds herself in a firefight something's gone terribly wrong. Originally I was extremely annoyed by how some outfits decided to rip themselves in half when put on a female characer. Thankfully BW fixed that by making a vast majority of the CM armor equally skimpy.

 

So...DAI Leliana then? 

 

XD I must admit her outfit is lovely.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

XD I must admit her outfit is lovely.

I want a copy of it for some of my Inquisitors. 

[Ryzaki]

I want a copy of it for some of my Inquisitors. 

 

 

I want to steal the boots. Seriously. I would run so far so fast with those boots.

[Nefla]

So...DAI Leliana then? 

No, like this

Spoiler

[HuldraDancer]

Now I want to be a fully armored, armed, and operational battle nun

 

So something like this?

 

Spoiler

very sadden I can't find more pictures of her

[Ryzaki]

What.

 

What is that from.

[HuldraDancer]

What.

 

What is that from.

 

What I put up? A web comic called Sister Claire.

[Ryzaki]

What I put up? A web comic called Sister Claire.

 

Aahhh.

 

Okay I'm reading this and I'm laughing so hard. Thank you XD

[HuldraDancer]

Aahhh.

 

Okay I'm reading this and I'm laughing so hard. Thank you XD

 

You are very welcome!

[Lady Luminous]

Oh, I was also thinking, once we see the companions in game with a variety of expressions, they may end up looking better than the screenshots. Like Josephine just has this crazy expression in all her pictures.

 

(I don't watch the vids to help tone down possible spoilers). 

[CrimsonN7]

Now I want to be a fully armored, armed, and operational battle nun

 

Yes!

 

[Beerfish]

A bad attitude is way more unattractive than any appearance.

Except for the fact that you never know about an attitude until after the fact, looks are always the 1st connector between people.  Also although many people will say this it is simply not true in practice.

[Borosini]

Except for the fact that you never know about an attitude until after the fact, looks are always the 1st connector between people.  Also although many people will say this it is simply not true in practice.

Blind people beg to differ.

[Pasquale1234]

Like I said, I'm screwed either way.
 
Because it's either going to be so revealing I don't want it anymore, or so "practical" I get no enjoyment from seeing it on my character.  I sometimes feel my enjoyment range was skipped entirely.

It sounds to me like you want fashions that are exactly the right amount of revealing - not too much or too little - and not "too practical" (whatever that means). I'm inclined to agree that anyone with such narrow standards of what they want is not terribly likely to see their desires satisfied.
 

I'm all for sharing on all sides of this issue for both sexes, and encouraging more armor in the middle, but I don't see many on the practical armor side of the issue willing to do so. Too many insisting that if they see anything else they won't buy the product, and insinuating anyone who wants anything else is an objectifying pervert intent on the degradation of women.

Link? I've not seen such posts, at least not in this thread.

And BTW, we've already seen plenty of not-very-practical female armor in the DA series. Take a look at some of the light to medium armors in DAO, and how they look on female versus male characters. The only non-robe, non-boobplate, fully protective armor available in that game for females was the massive armor - which is probably why I always played it as a warrior.

This sounds a lot like certain arguments about other issues where the status quo is being interrupted to be more inclusive, and those who want to continue with the status quo are not happy about it. Some of them seem to feel quite threatened by the idea that other people are finally getting more of what they want, which might mean a little less for them.
 

I want variety, that's all I'm asking for. And I get bombarded with long arguments about realism in a fantasy game, and if I don't get that, it's always about how all these other games have half naked chicks with jiggle physics so I should go play that (which I happen to also find offensive btw as that's purely for sex appeal and not just something that's pretty that also happens to have a bit of sex appeal),

Again - you're trying to enforce your ideas about "pretty" and "sex appeal" on everyone else.

I find nothing unappealing about female characters in fully protective armor. They look strong and sexy to my eyes. They exude confidence, competence, and enough self-esteem to value themselves enough to properly prepare to engage in combat instead of trying to get dates with anyone who might notice them while putting themselves at risk of bodily harm. I find some of the fully protective armor sets absolutely gorgeous.
 

or sims which I have zero interest in (like watching computer people doing random things is interesting.)

Some people use The Sims to role-play different characters, and create some very entertaining stories with them. It is essentially a sandbox that allows players to create and play a huge variety of different types of characters, relationships, lifestyles, etc. The variety of styles, choices, etc. that it supports is pretty amazing.
 

I have no issues with people like you willing to share, I want more people like you to say you're willing to share, because the "must be completely practical side" is shouting a lot louder than those that are willing to share.

Sharing is pretty much inevitable. I have little doubt that your version of "sexy" armor will be present in the game. Whether any of it will fit your precise standards of what you want is yet to be seen.

[Parkimus]

Except for the fact that you never know about an attitude until after the fact, looks are always the 1st connector between people.

 

Though irrelevant (since I wasn't arguing on the order in which this happens), I agree.

 

Also although many people will say this it is simply not true in practice.

 

Fair enough, although many people will say it is simply true in practice.

[tmp7704]

Except for the fact that you never know about an attitude until after the fact, looks are always the 1st connector between people.

With the introduction of mass intrawebs millions of people discover each day this is not really true.