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[TurretSyndrome]

Morrigan in the latest trailer is beautiful, yes, but she looked so smooth and flawless in her few seconds on screen that she feels a bit fake and out of place amongst our gorgeously flawed and realistic setting/companions/advisors.  I'm hoping it's just the angles/lighting/video capture that softened her features >.<

 

Just to be clear. I really liked the first version of Morrigan. I've said it plenty of times in other threads; she looked perfectly aged. Now she is like a different person. I won't go so far as to say they f*cked her up, but it's as you say, it feels deliberate and unnatural.

 

I don't mind characters being more pronounced, I just dislike entire transformations being done to them to push a point. Cassandra could've still resembled her DA 2 face. She could've still carried her softer features. Their faces and attires didn't exactly need to coincide with their personalities. A lot of times people surprise us by looking a certain way and being something different.

[Ispan]

Just to be clear. I really liked the first version of Morrigan. I've said it plenty of times in other threads; she looked perfectly aged. Now she is like a different person. I won't go so far as to say they f*cked her up, but it's as you say, it feels deliberate and unnatural.

My apologies, I haven't been on the forums much lately and I mostly wanted to gripe about her airbrushing and beautification in the new trailer. Sorry!

[TurretSyndrome]

My apologies, I haven't been on the forums much lately and I mostly wanted to complain about her airbrushing and beautification in the new trailer. Sorry!

 

Nothing to apologize for. I just wanted to clarify my stance to you on that one, that's all. Just saying that I agree with you on Morrigan.

[Icefalcon]

OK, but I'm talking about the discussions about them pre-release, similar to the discussions now.

Another one I didn't mention, about "that one hot character who's not available for romance" -- the people who complained about Sera's availability? Try all the "why can't I romance Bethany?!" threads.

Sorry I didn't make myself particularly clear, I did get what you meant about the comments on Merrill and Isabela, I just meant I somehow missed seeing them.

 

 The Bethany (for example) should be romance-able stuff I did see and I do remember some of the fuss you mention, although until you reminded me I had forgotten about it. I guess there will always be someone unhappy whatever we get.

[Allan Schumacher]

It's an ongoing trend. This was the straw/camel's back type of situation. I've been catching snippets of things here and there over the last few months. The most consistent thing I've heard is "I want personality over beauty..." which has been said so many times that it feels as though folks wholeheartedly believe that conventionally attractive characters/people are incapable of having winning personalities. :/

 

They're more saying that the person doesn't have to be conventionally attractive to be interesting and appealing.  It's more of a statement that they aren't bothered if the person doesn't look super beautiful.

 

 

Given that men are more regularly allowed to have a wide variety of looks, I consider it a good direction to start striving towards (I think it's a valid critique that we're still awfully conservative, in this regard, with DAI)

[chance52]

They're more saying that the person doesn't have to be conventionally attractive to be interesting and appealing.  It's more of a statement that they aren't bothered if the person doesn't look super beautiful.

 

 

Given that men are more regularly allowed to have a wide variety of looks, I consider it a good direction to start striving towards (I think it's a valid critique that we're still awfully conservative, in this regard, with DAI)

 

But it does seem like people that write letters and make online petitions are in fact bothered when women are portrayed as super beautiful. People make jokes about women looking like barbie's and that is unrealistic and sexist but I never hear anyone care at all that all the super hero men are all 6'5' professional body builders. Nor should they care for that matter. It's odd when people argue in either direction, we are talking about cartoons, not real people.

 

Also how are men allowed more often to look a variety of ways?  In real life or BioWare games? 

[Dai Grepher]

I agree with the OP. I plan on romancing Cassandra, and then placing a mask on her face or possibly a paper bag over her head if available. She looks like a cross between black Michael Jackson and Rocky Dennis.

 

I thought I had found a suitable romance in Sera... but then... BioWare trolled us.

 

Vivi is bald, so... yeah. Also not a confirmed romance anyway.

 

Josephine is the same as Cass, ugly cheekbones. Josephine also had moles, and just... yuck. The face shape reminds me of Predator.

 

I wish Inquisition had just put in a custom character creator for romancible NPCs. Then players could pick whatever kind of person (or people) they want.

 

I just hope Anora isn't ugly. Please don't make Anora ugly BioWare.

[Lady Nuggins]

But it does seem like people that write letters and make online petitions are in fact bothered when women are portrayed as super beautiful. People make jokes about women looking like barbie's and that is unrealistic and sexist but I never hear anyone care at all that all the super hero men are all 6'5' professional body builders. Nor should they care for that matter. It's odd when people argue in either direction, we are talking about cartoons, not real people.

 

Also how are men allowed more often to look a variety of ways?  In real life or BioWare games? 

 

Just look at our cast of characters.  You have Iron Bull, who is gigantic and meaty and gruesomely scarred, next to Solas, who is slender and bald and looks a little bit sickly and pale, next to Varric, who is short and thick and has a hairy chest.  That is a very wide range.

 

On the other hand, you have Sera, Cassandra, Vivienne, and Josephine, who all have the exact same "ideal" female body type.  They are all roughly the same height, have the same hip-to-waist ratio, the same slender figure.  And they are all very pretty, wearing makeup, with no scars that would get in the way of their prettiness.  

 

People are mad that Cassandra has a strong jaw.  Imagine how much more frothing at the mouth there would be if one of the female companions looked exactly like Iron Bull.

[Allan Schumacher]

But it does seem like people that write letters and make online petitions are in fact bothered when women are portrayed as super beautiful. People make jokes about women looking like barbie's and that is unrealistic and sexist but I never hear anyone care at all that all the super hero men are all 6'5' professional body builders. Nor should they care for that matter. It's odd when people argue in either direction, we are talking about cartoons, not real people.

 

Also how are men allowed more often to look a variety of ways?  In real life or BioWare games? 

 

There are people that speak out against the super hero men, too.  The issue comes don't to prevalence.  Women are almost *always* having to fit into some measure of attractive, and if they aren't larger groups of people feel a need to speak out against the less attractive ones.

 

I do think that there is much more flexibility in terms of how male characters look in our games (or gaming in general).  DAI still fits this mold, even with "ugly" women.  I also feel that attractiveness is a less significant influence in a man's life compared to a woman's, in real life.  There's a lot more focus, at least in my experiences, for women to continue maintaining their attractiveness compared to men.  In terms of what I see in commercials and even just media in general.  I am starting to get grey hair, and it's so absolutely not an issue for me.  Though that doesn't mean society doesn't place any pressure on men.  Baldness, for example, is a common one (and seems to fuel a good amount of why Solas is ugly to some, from what I've seen).

 

But look at our cast of characters in DAI.  I think there's much wider range in appearance among the male characters than among the female characters.  So just another part of the slow moving boat that hopefully keeps turning.

 

 

I find Josephine and Leliana to be strikingly attractive in our game.  Vivienne is also beautiful.  I still find Cass very pretty, and Sera was maybe the one I was most "meh" to in terms of physical appearances, that all evaporated once I met her in my playthrough (I think she's awesome).

[Maria Caliban]

BioWare should stop forcing all these fugly women on innocent dudes and make them all lesbians. Then everyone would be happy.

[chance52]

Just look at our cast of characters.  You have Iron Bull, who is gigantic and meaty and gruesomely scarred, next to Solas, who is slender and bald and looks a little bit sickly and pale, next to Varric, who is short and thick and has a hairy chest.  That is a very wide range.

 

On the other hand, you have Sera, Cassandra, Vivienne, and Josephine, who all have the exact same "ideal" female body type.  They are all roughly the same height, have the same hip-to-waist ratio, the same slender figure.  And they are all very pretty, wearing makeup, with no scars that would get in the way of their prettiness.  

 

People are mad that Cassandra has a strong jaw.  Imagine how much more frothing at the mouth there would be if one of the female companions looked exactly like Iron Bull.

 

Well Bioware has already done that.  ME3 had a 'female' krogan that was just a male krogan in a burka and female salarian that was just a male salarian in a hoodie. They weren't teammates but they were identical to the male versions, just different clothes.

 

There were female dwarfs in DAO, not sure about DAI yet, and one was your companion in Awakening. Shale was a woman and a lot closer to looking like Iron Bull than anyone else has been in either DA game and people loved Shale. And Ive seen Josephine with moles and Cassandra with scars and neither of them looked like they even had makeup on. 

[Lady Nuggins]

Well Bioware has already done that.  ME3 had a 'female' krogan that was just a male krogan in a burka and female salarian that was just a male salarian in a hoodie. They weren't teammates but they were identical to the male versions, just different clothes.

 

There were female dwarfs in DAO, not sure about DAI yet, and one was your companion in Awakening. Shale was a woman and a lot closer to looking like Iron Bull than anyone else has been in either DA game and people loved Shale. And Ive seen Josephine with moles and Cassandra with scars and neither of them looked like they even had makeup on. 

 

Yes, female dwarves exist.  Female krogan exist.  But isn't it funny how they are almost never companions, and definitely never LIs?  And how it took so long to even see a female krogan?  Isn't it funny how Mass Effect had Garrus, who has scales and mandibles, an LI, while Liara and Tali were just pretty women with blue and purple filters over their skin?

 

Shale was, essentially, sexless.  The fact that she is female is hidden from you unless you take her with you to the Deep Roads.  She was also not an LI.

 

Josephine and Cassandra do have makeup--very heavy makeup in fact.  Or do you think women's skin naturally turns black over the eyelids?

 

 

And if you think one tiny scar on the cheek and one mole are equivalent to the massive scar and missing eye that Iron Bull has, then I don't know what else to say.

[HuldraDancer]

Well Bioware has already done that.  ME3 had a 'female' krogan that was just a male krogan in a burka and female salarian that was just a male salarian in a hoodie. They weren't teammates but they were identical to the male versions, just different clothes.

 

There were female dwarfs in DAO, not sure about DAI yet, and one was your companion in Awakening. Shale was a woman and a lot closer to looking like Iron Bull than anyone else has been in either DA game and people loved Shale. And Ive seen Josephine with moles and Cassandra with scars and neither of them looked like they even had makeup on. 

 

 

Sorry I to butt in just wanted to address the bolded. Maybe its because one of my aunts does beauty makeups and has tried to teach me to do it that I notice it more but the make up on both Cassandra and Josephine is pretty obvious to me especially around the eyes. 

 

 

[Mihura]

If you think the dudebros complaining about the women not being pretty enough is annoying now, imagine how much they would flip out in that case... but yeah, I agree with you. All the females, despite looking more unique and realistic this time, are all still fitting into the standard pretty. I would have loved a female dwarven romance. Maybe one day.  

 

I mean it could not be worse than the whining about Sera romance right? RIGHT? who I am kidding most game communities are full of spoiled brats. 

[chance52]

Yes, female dwarves exist.  Female krogan exist.  But isn't it funny how they are almost never companions, and definitely never LIs?  And how it took so long to even see a female krogan?  Isn't it funny how Mass Effect had Garrus, who has scales and mandibles, an LI, while Liara and Tali were just pretty women with blue and purple filters over their skin?

 

Shale was, essentially, sexless.  The fact that she is female is hidden from you unless you take her with you to the Deep Roads.  She was also not an LI.

 

Josephine and Cassandra do have makeup--very heavy makeup in fact.  Or do you think women's skin naturally turns black over the eyelids?

 

 

And if you think one tiny scar on the cheek and one mole are equivalent to the massive scar and missing eye that Iron Bull has, then I don't know what else to say.

 

This is the image i was remembering of Cassandra and she doesn't have one tiny scar but one that goes a 3rd of the length of her face. As for the makeup I didn't remember her having some on in this promo so I guess I remembered wrong, no need to start insulting me.

 

 

Also you are changing the point mid conversation.  You said "with no scars that would get in the way of their prettiness" and I pointed out Cassandra had scars and Josephine having moles, I said nothing about a 'one tiny scar on the cheek and one mole' being the same thing as a missing eye. You even quoted me as comparing Shale to Iron Bull, not 2 human characters to Iron Bull so why you are making absurd statements and claiming they are my point?

 

As for Tali, she was a suit, not sure how you are saying she was attractive in any sense given you never once saw her face modeled in any game and the only time it was ever shown was a quick blue filter over a stock picture of a model Bioware spent all of 2 seconds on that you only saw if you romanced her and didnt help the geth over her people. Tali was a personality in a suit, not a supermodel.

 

Shale was only sexless if you never had her on your team, so saying you could go the entire game without learning her back story can be true of any character in any game. Shale is also attracted to Sten and has a lot of dialogue about finding him attractive and talks to Leliana about going shoe shopping that would trigger on the open road and in towns and in the forest. Also not taking Shale to meet the maker of golems? If you speak with her she asks to join you for that trip, you have to go out of your way not to find more about her.

[Allan Schumacher]

You're right and wrong.

 

What you're seeing is the typical internet act of doubling down.

 

 

If it was reversed and we were saying this about people with weight issues,

 

"If it was reversed?"  I would consider someone coming in and saying "the women are too fat" would result in reasonably similar rebuttals to people complaining that the women are too ugly and don't match conventional beauty.

 

 

pretty faces lacking personality, being unlovable, and the age old stereotype of: attractive people are mean.

 

Link?

[DrBlingzle]

New BSN game: Every time you see a topic about how the female companions are unattractive, take a shot.

[Maria Caliban]

We've actually gotten better.

Reactions to Isabela and Merrill were far worse than to the DA:I ladies.

[umadcommander]

We've actually gotten better.

Reactions to Isabela and Merrill were far worse than to the DA:I ladies.

yeah but DA2 as a game looked dreadful so it was easy to pick holes, at least DA:I looks good in general

[Lady Nuggins]

Also you are changing the point mid conversation.  You said "with no scars that would get in the way of their prettiness" and I pointed out Cassandra had scars and Josephine having moles, I said nothing about a 'one tiny scar on the cheek and one mole' being the same thing as a missing eye. You even quoted me as comparing Shale to Iron Bull, not 2 human characters to Iron Bull so why you are making absurd statements and claiming they are my point?

 

Yes, I said would not get in the way of their prettiness.  That scar does not hinder Cassandra's features in any way.  It is barely visible.  It's a faint line.  Same with Josephine's moles.

 

I was going back to my earlier point, which is that female characters are generally required to have a very narrow standard of beauty, while male characters are allowed to have a much wider range.  I was explaining why the existence of one female krogan who is not a companion or LI does not refute this.  

 

Shale was only sexless if you never had her on your team, so saying you could go the entire game without learning her back story can be true of any character in any game. Shale is also attracted to Sten and has a lot of dialogue about finding him attractive and talks to Leliana about going shoe shopping that would trigger on the open road and in towns and in the forest. Also not taking Shale to meet the maker of golems? If you speak with her she asks to join you for that trip, you have to go out of your way not to find more about her.

 

My point is that Shale's gender has to be "revealed."  Because it's this big shocking thing that the giant rock creature with the ambiguous voice might not be male.  And she does not even necessarily see herself as female, as she did not think of herself that way until informed of it.  Also liking shoes or being attracted to men doesn't make somebody female.

[Dai Grepher]

Just please don't make Anora ugly.

[Lady Luminous]

I'm always going to feel horrible for this, because I'm sure the cast will be perfectly enjoyable companions once I get into the actual game, but just once I'd love to romance a barbie/cheerleader type with long, pretty hair and big boobs and not worry about unconventional attractiveness....

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm always going to feel horrible for this, because I'm sure the cast will be perfectly enjoyable companions once I get into the actual game, but just once I'd love to romance a barbie/cheerleader type with long, pretty hair and big boobs and not worry about unconventional attractiveness....

You always have Miranda in ME2.