440 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Luminous]

You always have Miranda in ME2. 

 

I really need to learn how to play shooters. One day... 

[MACharlie1]

I don't find Cass ugly at all. 

 

She has an ugly haircut in this game. That's all. Put some of that long hair on her and she'd look like a supermodel....

 

Ugh...I can already see mods of Cass with the pompous prom style haircuts that were so prevalent in DA:O..."prettier" Cassandra they'll call it. 

 

I'll rank those mods right up there with the "prettier" Aveline, fair skinned Isabela and "beautiful" Morrigan mods. 

[Lady Luminous]

I don't find Cass ugly at all. 

 

She has an ugly haircut in this game. That's all. Put some of that long hair on her and she'd look like a supermodel....

 

Ugh...I can already see mods of Cass with the pompous prom style haircuts that were so prevalent in DA:O..."prettier" Cassandra they'll call it. 

 

I'll rank those mods right up there with the "prettier" Aveline, fair skinned Isabela and "beautiful" Morrigan mods. 

 

Her hair is pretty awful. It's like someone stuck her head in a vat of black ink. It just looks greasy. 

[chance52]

Yes, I said would not get in the way of their prettiness.  That scar does not hinder Cassandra's features in any way.  It is barely visible.  It's a faint line.  Same with Josephine's moles.

 

I was going back to my earlier point, which is that female characters are generally required to have a very narrow standard of beauty, while male characters are allowed to have a much wider range.  I was explaining why the existence of one female krogan who is not a companion or LI does not refute this.  

 

 

My point is that Shale's gender has to be "revealed."  Because it's this big shocking thing that the giant rock creature with the ambiguous voice might not be male.  And she does not even necessarily see herself as female, as she did not think of herself that way until informed of it.  Also liking shoes or being attracted to men doesn't make somebody female.

 

You insist on changing your point every time I post. 

 

You said Shale was sexless, being attracted to and flirting with Sten isn't sexless, the same is true if Shale was attracted to anyone.  Bioware also gave her a stereotypical female interest, loving pretty shoes. Which isn't me saying 'if you dont like shoes you arent a woman or if you do like them you are a woman'

 

You said they had no scars, I said they did, you said I felt a tiny scar was the same as Iron Bull missing an eye, I said 'no I didnt you even quoted me to prove it' I also said it isn't a tiny scar it's a large, here is a photo. Now you are saying the scars don't matter they are pretty anyway. 

 

What is the end goal here?

[Lady Nuggins]

You insist on changing your point every time I post. 

 

You said Shale was sexless, being attracted to and flirting with Sten isn't sexless, the same is true if Shale was attracted to anyone.  Bioware also gave her a stereotypical female interest, loving pretty shoes. Which isn't me saying 'if you dont like shoes you arent a woman or if you do like them you are a woman'

 

You said they had no scars, I said they did, you said I felt a tiny scar was the same as Iron Bull missing an eye, I said 'no I didnt you even quoted me to prove it' I also said it isn't a tiny scar it's a large, here is a photo. Now you are saying the scars don't matter they are pretty anyway. 

 

What is the end goal here?

 

I'm not changing my point, I think you're just misinterpreting my point every time you post, and you take my clarifications as changing.  I haven't changed anything, as you can see:

 

Just look at our cast of characters.  You have Iron Bull, who is gigantic and meaty and gruesomely scarred, next to Solas, who is slender and bald and looks a little bit sickly and pale, next to Varric, who is short and thick and has a hairy chest.  That is a very wide range.

 

On the other hand, you have Sera, Cassandra, Vivienne, and Josephine, who all have the exact same "ideal" female body type.  They are all roughly the same height, have the same hip-to-waist ratio, the same slender figure.  And they are all very pretty, wearing makeup, with no scars that would get in the way of their prettiness.

 

Yes, I said would not get in the way of their prettiness.  That scar does not hinder Cassandra's features in any way.  It is barely visible.  It's a faint line.  Same with Josephine's moles.

 

I'm saying that her scar does not inhibit her features.  You say it does.  Fine, we disagree.  But that has always been my point.

 

I'm using "sexless" to mean she is not really male or female.  Attraction to somebody is orientation, but it is not sex.  Loving shoes is no different from Zevran loving gloves.  

 

The "end goal" was nothing more than to show how female characters, in general and specifically in the games, are usually held to a narrower standard of beauty than male characters are.  Exactly as I said.

[Maria Caliban]

Her hair is pretty awful. It's like someone stuck her head in a vat of black ink. It just looks greasy.

The skin textures seem to have leapt forward from DA II. The environments and armor as well. The hair is about the same, which doesn't look right.

[Lady Luminous]

The skin textures seem to have leapt forward from DA II. The environments and armor as well. The hair is about the same, which doesn't look right.

 

The hair seems to look softer in DA2, but yes the same as DA:O.

 

Gah, stupid hair physics. I may have everyone wear helmets and hoods the whole game.

[dreamgazer]

DA2 Cassandra reminds me of Buzz Lightyear, in a strange way.

 

I, uh ... yeah ...

 

[kukumburr]

and the age old stereotype of: attractive people are mean.

Wait, what? Isn't it the opposite of this? I thought it was usually villains = ugly, heroes = attractive. The only thing I can think of where "pretty people = mean" is a common theme is in high school dramas. Isn't every Disney princess ever a pretty girl with a big heart? And superheroes handsome guys trying to save people?

 

As far as the female companions/advisors go I think they're all attractive. Cassandra is actually my favorite. I don't think she even looks that dramatically different from her DA2 version. Yes they sharpened her features and gave her two fairly minor scars, but I'm glad they gave her a more unique look. There's nothing wrong with the more oval face, but everyone in DA2 had that face. In Inquisition they obviously now have the ability to add more variety to facial structure and I'm glad that they're taking advantage of it. Because despite the prevalence of same-face syndrome in media, women in real life actually do have a wide range of varying facial features and it's nice to see that reflected.

 

I'm not sure how disliking someone's cheekbones or moles is enough to call them "ugly". I mean, I didn't really like Anders' nose but I still thought he was attractive overall. I also don't understand why a character has to be flawlessly beautiful to enjoy their romance arc. I guess maybe if you're physically repulsed by them, but if it's just a couple features you don't like what's the problem? I've romanced characters in other games that I didn't find attractive at all, but I still enjoyed the romance because I liked the character in general.

 

Honestly if I was playing a straight male character in Inquisition my biggest complaint would be that my only options are humans, instead of complaining about those humans not being up to my very specific standards. I'd like to have at least one other race option.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Honestly if I was playing a straight male character in Inquisition my biggest complaint would be that my only options are humans, instead of complaining about those humans not being up to my very specific standards. I'd like to have at least one other race option.

Yeah, this one of the only arguments about the romances that I think has a lot of merit to it. 

[tmp7704]

The skin textures seem to have leapt forward from DA II. The environments and armor as well. The hair is about the same, which doesn't look right.

I think that may be the hair rendering bug mentioned earlier. There's a more recent screenshot of human female inquisitor with the hair looking much better, shading-wise:

[Lady Luminous]

I think that may be the hair rendering bug mentioned earlier. There's a more recent screenshot of human female inquisitor with the hair looking much better, shading-wise:

It may also be a colour issue, of the black just not having much high-lighting; whereas you can see the red has different tones, including pink. 

[TheChosenOne]

I think that may be the hair rendering bug mentioned earlier. There's a more recent screenshot of human female inquisitor with the hair looking much better, shading-wise:

 

red hair Cassandra................ Weird.............  

[chance52]

The "end goal" was nothing more than to show how female characters, in general and specifically in the games, are usually held to a narrower standard of beauty than male characters are.  Exactly as I said.

 

And to make this point you toss away the female krogan, cause she wasn't a love interest or party member, Sigrun because dwarves aren't often companions (even though this one was) and she wasn't a love interest and Shale because she wasn't a love interest and you had to discover she was a woman.

 

It seems you are dismissing every woman that doesn't fall into this 'narrow standard of beauty' to better facilitate the idea women in games are held to a narrow standard of beauty.

 

Those 3 women were a big part of their respective games and you insist on tossing each of them out because your character cant date them.  No one is holding BioWare to anything but sales by shareholders. So the notion that they are beholden to make their characters attractive seems false to me.  I made this point in my first post and I feel it needs to be made again, why does it matter to begin with? Attractive or ugly they are cartoons, what does it matter?

[Lady Nuggins]

And to make this point you toss away the female krogan, cause she wasn't a love interest or party member, Sigrun because dwarves aren't often companions (even though this one was) and she wasn't a love interest and Shale because she wasn't a love interest and you had to discover she was a woman.

 

It seems you are dismissing every woman that doesn't fall into this 'narrow standard of beauty' to better facilitate the idea women in games are held to a narrow standard of beauty.

 

Those 3 women were a big part of their respective games and you insist on tossing each of them out because your character cant date them.  No one is holding BioWare to anything but sales by shareholders. So the notion that they are beholden to make their characters attractive seems false to me.  I made this point in my first post and I feel it needs to be made again, why does it matter to begin with? Attractive or ugly they are cartoons, what does it matter?

 

I'm focusing on companions and LIs because that's what the thread is about.  Also because companions and LIs are the characters who get the most focus, the most screentime, the most relevance to the story.

 

I'm saying it matters because I'd love to get another companion like Sigrun.  I'd love to have played Mass Effect with a female krogan to fight alongside, not as a single NPC who needed to be rescued and lasted only a couple missions in one game out of the trilogy.  I'm saying that it matters because there are multiple threads about Cassandra's jaw being a little too big while nobody complains about Iron Bull's missing eye.  I want to see more variety in the female characters.  Even with Shale and Sigrun and one krogan NPC from a totally different franchise, this game still has only conventionally attractive thin women in the party.  

[chance52]

I'm focusing on companions and LIs because that's what the thread is about.  Also because companions and LIs are the characters who get the most focus, the most screentime, the most relevance to the story.

 

I'm saying it matters because I'd love to get another companion like Sigrun.  I'd love to have played Mass Effect with a female krogan to fight alongside, not as a single NPC who needed to be rescued and lasted only a couple missions in one game out of the trilogy.  I'm saying that it matters because there are multiple threads about Cassandra's jaw being a little too big while nobody complains about Iron Bull's missing eye.  I want to see more variety in the female characters.  Even with Shale and Sigrun and one krogan NPC from a totally different franchise, this game still has only conventionally attractive thin women in the party.  

 

Fair enough, but lest you think I am one sided on this I also think all those threads about Cassandra's large jaw are silly too! haha. But I did see a thread about Iron Bull's head being too small for his body and needing to be fixed.  I felt that topic was silly too. He is after all from a fictional race.

[aTigerslunch]

Sorry, I just got to laugh now, I know its rude, but again sorry.

 

Debates over someones taste over anothers taste in what is beautiful is interesting. Of course it seems there are many men that don't like who they can romance cause those women are more realistic in appearance and look less like each other. DO:A, the models repeated a lot with minor differences, that didn't bother me. DA2 again had multiple look-a-likes, again doesn't bother me. When giving models their less look-a-like deal, then it gets bashed. Sorry, I find it funny.. complaints wont ever stop no matter what.   Yes, men usually don't get targeted for their looks, why not?

 

I can see which demons will have fun with those particular people.   It is subjective, bashing and hating on someone to whom is found ugly is distasteful anywhere. It makes a shallow person even less ideal. Men,yeah, so she is ugly?  Hmmm....  what if that person had the best personality and matched everything you are, but because they look ugly to you, they are no longer a lady? Even though, she is a woman and not a man (nor features of a man), do the Dundy check on Cassandra (just don't mind the sword in your gullet afterwords). 

 

I do find Cass attractive, I admit, but I probably won't be rolling a character immediately for her romance, I plan on Sera or Josie first.

 

I find the root of the problem for some of those particular guys are just mad they cant romance Sera, when all they have to do is create a female main character to do so. I am antagonizing, I know. Sit back, take a breath, read again, why is it important to bash looks?  Cause seriously, I am not attacking specific people, I just pointed out humour in watching the debate.    Also, what about the fact they are still touching up on presentations? First models usually are not the ones that make it to the end. See if there is a change in touchups before starting a rant?

 

  (Oh wait, a guy has to play a female for Sera, oh the horror of it all. When females got pushed into male roles a lot in past.) Sorry, I don't have empathy in that particular case.

 

I still find them fine to me, I prefer getting to talk to them.

[Allan Schumacher]

"...the very attractive were seen as egocentric..." http://www.amsciepub...0.1984.55.2.351

Extremely attractive individuals may be refused by their own sex type who are jealous of them: E. Hatfield, S. Sprecher, (1986). Mirror, mirror…The importance of looks in everyday life. Albany, NY: State University of New York Press. Here's a PDF of that: http://www.elainehatfield.com/ch64.pdf  

"Subjects expected attractive women to be more vain and egotistical, more bourgeois (i.e., materialistic, snobbish, and unsympathetic to oppressed peoples), and less committed to their marriages (more likely to have extramarital affairs and/or to request a divorce) than homely women."

 

 

So you think that attractiveness in general, is a detriment in our society?

[Allan Schumacher]

And to make this point you toss away the female krogan, cause she wasn't a love interest or party member, Sigrun because dwarves aren't often companions (even though this one was) and she wasn't a love interest and Shale because she wasn't a love interest and you had to discover she was a woman.

 

Sorry, I'm interjecting here.

 

When I see you make a statement such as how it doesn't even look like Cassandra and Josephine are wearing make up, you do an excellent job of reinforcing just how "natural" we now look at make up since, to me, it's very apparent that not only are they wearing make up, they are arguably wearing too much (particularly around the eyes).  But when you go off on a tangent like that but get upset at others for apparently going off on tangents of their own, I start to get frustrated.

 

 

The existence of someone like Shale (or Beth) is not, when assessed in the greater context of all video games, compelling enough evidence to me that women aren't highly judged by their physical appearance, and significantly more likely to be required to be within a narrower band of beauty.  I don't consider it "tossing them out."  The presence of some does not mean "problem is now solved."  I do think it is reflective, however, of the problem is starting to get addressed.  There's still the issue that only Shale was a party member though.

[Lady Luminous]

Sorry, I'm interjecting here.

 

When I see you make a statement such as how it doesn't even look like Cassandra and Josephine are wearing make up, you do an excellent job of reinforcing just how "natural" we now look at make up since, to me, it's very apparent that not only are they wearing make up, they are arguably wearing too much (particularly around the eyes).  But when you go off on a tangent like that but get upset at others for apparently going off on tangents of their own, I start to get frustrated.

 

 

The existence of someone like Shale (or Beth) is not, when assessed in the greater context of all video games, compelling enough evidence to me that women aren't highly judged by their physical appearance, and significantly more likely to be required to be within a narrower band of beauty.  I don't consider it "tossing them out."  The presence of some does not mean "problem is now solved."  I do think it is reflective, however, of the problem is starting to get addressed.  There's still the issue that only Shale was a party member though.

 

Allan, I just want to say how grateful I am to have you on the forums. I think you make some amazing viewpoints and always stay so calm. I would like your post, but I'm at my quote. So here: <<<

[AresKeith]

I agree with the OP. I plan on romancing Cassandra, and then placing a mask on her face or possibly a paper bag over her head if available. She looks like a cross between black Michael Jackson and Rocky Dennis.

 

I thought I had found a suitable romance in Sera... but then... BioWare trolled us.

 

Vivi is bald, so... yeah. Also not a confirmed romance anyway.

 

Josephine is the same as Cass, ugly cheekbones. Josephine also had moles, and just... yuck. The face shape reminds me of Predator.

 

I wish Inquisition had just put in a custom character creator for romancible NPCs. Then players could pick whatever kind of person (or people) they want.

 

I just hope Anora isn't ugly. Please don't make Anora ugly BioWare.

 

   

[Basement Cat]

When I see you make a statement such as how it doesn't even look like Cassandra and Josephine are wearing make up, you do an excellent job of reinforcing just how "natural" we now look at make up since, to me, it's very apparent that not only are they wearing make up, they are arguably wearing too much (particularly around the eyes). 

Cass is not wearing make-up. It's that stuff football players use to reduce the sun's glare. It's TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

[Puppy Love]

I can't take it anymore, I have to say.  I'm glad it's as it is, while I personally think the characters are for the most part attractive in their own ways.  Following the theme of them all being not too attractive.

 

It means, if I work really hard in character creation, and with armor customization, however that works.  I may get to be, finally for the first time in my recollection, the prettiest girl in the party!!!! LOL

[Lady Luminous]

I can't take it anymore, I have to say.  I'm glad it's as it is, while I personally think the characters are for the most part attractive in their own ways.  Following the theme of them all being not too attractive.

 

It means, if I work really hard in character creation, and with armor customization, however that works.  I may get to be, finally for the first time in my recollection, the prettiest girl in the party!!!! LOL

 

Oh yes, that's actually exactly why I spend like an hour in the CC! I'm addicted to being a pretty PC.