28 réponses à ce sujet

[Copper Kingdom]

I've noticed that out of all the backgrounds, the dwarf background is the only one that locks you into a moral alignment. You are either neutral or evil. It won't make much sense to take all the moral high-ground responses when you were an active criminal at the start of the game. This is kind of a sore spot for me because what I like most about dwarves in other media is that they aren't petty, backstabbing criminals. Dwarves are, perhaps a little greedy, but steadfast and honorable. I know from playing origins that dragon age dwarves are usually scum. I can deal with that so long a *I* don't have to be scum.

Might there be a way to just forfeit the background content for an 'unknown origin' background or perhaps share the mercenary origin with the quinari.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Sadly the backstories are set in stone. Even if they wanted to make a blank slate background or have one shared, it is far too far in the creation process to implement it. 

[Samahl]

Dwarves place a huge emphasis on family. Even if you felt the need not to live your Carta lifestyle to the fullest, you would be culturally obligated to go along with your family.

[OctagonalSquare]

I don't really see how it locks you into an alignment. Hawke could be a smuggler.

[Andraste_Reborn]

My current plan for my noble, honourable dwarf warrior is that he was in the Carta because he felt he had no other options - his whole family are criminals, and he was raised in the life. Leaving would have meant turning his back on them, and he didn't think any respectable employer would hire someone with his background. His only real skill is killing people, and most of the respectable military operations are dominated by humans. So he's going to be absolutely delighted that the Inquisition gives him a chance to get out and do something he considers more worthwhile.

 

(By contrast, my female dwarf Inquisitor is going to be far more enthusiastic about the family business.)

[aTigerslunch]

I like Andraste's post. I agree.

 

What is to say, while being "forced" to do what family tells the dwarf to do, that your dwarf opposes the idea, few times openly at beginning only taught punishment was harsh. So went along with the deal while waiting for the chance to get away at best opportune time. Considering life away from them would be even harder than with them, so abiding time till can be away without stressing of being disliked elsewhere.

 

Though I thought the Qunari was going to be born away from Qun at first, being part of the Tal-Vashoth kinda changes that perspective.  I will have to see what the intro is like in game as the details may not been completely fleshed out in that background story list. It's possible its only partially filled. Meaning, right now, my female Qunari mage is a mercenary but any further specifics is wait to be seen. I'm sure the opening scene will be more than just an immediate blast. I suspect at least 5 minute introductions before BOOOM. 

 

 

 

EDIT:  I had myself backwards on the Qunari......not of the faithful qun yet.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

As a Dwarf enthusiast I completely approve of the Carta background, it's something different from the Noble and even Casteless origins we've already had. I'm looking forward to roleplaying it.

 

But if that's not your thing, I think the ''Touched by Andraste'' event is a life-changer, so whatever the character had been before, you'll have a chance to redefine him in whatever way you please. Do his morals change? Does he become religious? Does it change his view of the world, does he become invested in saving it? Or does he remain as a criminal who only goes along with it to protect the family?

[In Exile]

I've noticed that out of all the backgrounds, the dwarf background is the only one that locks you into a moral alignment. You are either neutral or evil. It won't make much sense to take all the moral high-ground responses when you were an active criminal at the start of the game. This is kind of a sore spot for me because what I like most about dwarves in other media is that they aren't petty, backstabbing criminals. Dwarves are, perhaps a little greedy, but steadfast and honorable. I know from playing origins that dragon age dwarves are usually scum. I can deal with that so long a *I* don't have to be scum.

Might there be a way to just forfeit the background content for an 'unknown origin' background or perhaps share the mercenary origin with the quinari.

 

Just because you're forced into working with criminals to survive doesn't mean you have a questionable moral alignment. Do you think that the Dwarf Commoner was forced into being non-good?

[phantomrachie]

I've noticed that out of all the backgrounds, the dwarf background is the only one that locks you into a moral alignment. You are either neutral or evil. It won't make much sense to take all the moral high-ground responses when you were an active criminal at the start of the game. This is kind of a sore spot for me because what I like most about dwarves in other media is that they aren't petty, backstabbing criminals. Dwarves are, perhaps a little greedy, but steadfast and honorable. I know from playing origins that dragon age dwarves are usually scum. I can deal with that so long a *I* don't have to be scum.

Might there be a way to just forfeit the background content for an 'unknown origin' background or perhaps share the mercenary origin with the quinari.

 

Firstly I don't agree with you that Dwarves are mostly scum in Dragon Age. Some are asshats, some aren't like all the other races.

 

That is actually something I really like about the Dragon Age universe, there is no one race you can point to and say 'all you guys are jerks' or 'all you guys are awesome'

 

Secondly just because you are part of the Carta doesn't mean that you are morally evil or neutral.  

 

The Carta are a bit like the mob, they reach out to young and vulnerable people and tell them that by working for them you'll get money and respect, and if your whole family have been members of the Carta then you may see no reason to leave or feel like you can't.

 

The backgrounds provides limited information. You could be a decent person who has been looking for  away to escape the Carta but were worried about them killing you or your family so the Inquisition is your way out or you could be an evil person who loves the Carta and everything it stands for or something in between.

 

All 3 fit the background and whatever personality you want your Inquisitor to have. 

[Copper Kingdom]

Firstly I don't agree with you that Dwarves are mostly scum in Dragon Age. Some are asshats, some aren't like all the other races.

 

That is actually something I really like about the Dragon Age universe, there is no one race you can point to and say 'all you guys are jerks' or 'all you guys are awesome'

The only dwarves I liked in origins were the legion of the dead. They are the only dwarves I can remember that,in my opinion, acted like dwarves. Even at the end of the game, where other races get visits from people from their origin, the dwarf noble gets two dwarves explaining why several groups are too petty to join the fight. In my mind its a unforgivable sin for a dwarf to not take part in a fight for petty reasons.

 

Secondly just because you are part of the Carta doesn't mean that you are morally evil or neutral.  

 

The Carta are a bit like the mob, they reach out to young and vulnerable people and tell them that by working for them you'll get money and respect, and if your whole family have been members of the Carta then you may see no reason to leave or feel like you can't.

What you just described is neutral if not evil; Doing something that is wrong for your own benefit. You can not say I am a good person, yet I work for the mob. You either have blood on your hands or, at best, have plugged your ears while others have gotten blood on theirs.

 

My current plan for my noble, honourable dwarf warrior is that he was in the Carta because he felt he had no other options - his whole family are criminals, and he was raised in the life. Leaving would have meant turning his back on them, and he didn't think any respectable employer would hire someone with his background. His only real skill is killing people, and most of the respectable military operations are dominated by humans.

You will still be a hypocrite if you play a lawful style and don't bend to every sob story you hear. You were a criminal a few days ago.

 

Also my personal view of dwarves are that they don't compromise in this way. They make their way through life with their own skills and there own prowess in battle. You would be a criminal because you choose to be one, if you don't want to do crime then shoe a horse. Also, I hate the idea of Dwarven families teaching their kids to be scum. In my mind family is where dwarves learn the honor and warrior culture.

 

As a Dwarf enthusiast I completely approve of the Carta background, it's something different from the Noble and even Casteless origins we've already had. I'm looking forward to roleplaying it.

How is it different from the casteless origin besides the fact that you had more options in life other than crime?

 

But if that's not your thing, I think the ''Touched by Andraste'' event is a life-changer, so whatever the character had been before, you'll have a chance to redefine him in whatever way you please. Do his morals change? Does he become religious? Does it change his view of the world, does he become invested in saving it? Or does he remain as a criminal who only goes along with it to protect the family?

You can change his moral stance, but that doesn't change his RECENT history. As I said before, you cannot go full lawful without being a hypocrite.

[TheEternalStudent]

The only dwarves I liked in origins were the legion of the dead. They are the only dwarves I can remember that,in my opinion, acted like dwarves. Even at the end of the game, where other races get visits from people from their origin, the dwarf noble gets two dwarves explaining why several groups are too petty to join the fight. In my mind its a unforgivable sin for a dwarf to not take part in a fight for petty reasons.

Personally I didn't really like any of the dwarves in DA:O-DAII except Varric and Sigrun, but I don't know how you can say only a small number of dwarves acted 'like dwarves'. Most dwarves act like dwarves, because that's how words work. And the dwarves arguing is no different than what we got in Ostagar with Loghain complaining about Orlesians, politics was preventing them from mustering thier full might.

 

What you just described is neutral if not evil; Doing something that is wrong for your own benefit. You can not say I am a good person, yet I work for the mob. You either have blood on your hands or, at best, have plugged your ears while others have gotten blood on theirs.

You can't play a paragon of virtue, but you can play a character who sought to be more Robin Hood then Jack the Ripper.

 

 

Also my personal view of dwarves are that they don't compromise in this way. They make their way through life with their own skills and there own prowess in battle. You would be a criminal because you choose to be one, if you don't want to do crime then shoe a horse. Also, I hate the idea of Dwarven families teaching their kids to be scum. In my mind family is where dwarves learn the honor and warrior culture.

Your argument is that these dwarves don't fit your image of how dwarves should be? And The parents don't need to keep repeating you're scum, they can just be criminals who volunteer thier kids for assignments, and where do you expect the character to learn how to shoe a horse? assuming the parents weren't blacksmiths they'd have to be apprenticed to someone, possibly even buying one with money they don't have.

 

You can change his moral stance, but that doesn't change his RECENT history. As I said before, you cannot go full lawful without being a hypocrite.

Don't condem for breaking the law, but don't let it continue. This is being lawful, and non-hypocritical. Advocating the death penalty for being a thief is hypocritical, not wanting people to have to resort to it isn't.

[phantomrachie]

The only dwarves I liked in origins were the legion of the dead. They are the only dwarves I can remember that,in my opinion, acted like dwarves. Even at the end of the game, where other races get visits from people from their origin, the dwarf noble gets two dwarves explaining why several groups are too petty to join the fight. In my mind its a unforgivable sin for a dwarf to not take part in a fight for petty reasons.

.

 

All Dwarves in Dragon Age act like Dwarves because they are infact Dwarves.

 

What you're saying is you have this image of Dwarves based on other media sources and you don't like the fact that DA Dwarves don't match that.

 

It might be an unforgivable sin for a Dwarf not to fight because of politics in your mind but it is consistent with the culture that BioWare created for the Dwarves in DA, just because you don't like the culture that BioWare has created for their Dwarves doesn't  make them scum

 

 

What you just described is neutral if not evil; Doing something that is wrong for your own benefit. You can not say I am a good person, yet I work for the mob. You either have blood on your hands or, at best, have plugged your ears while others have gotten blood on theirs.

 

Morality is rarely so black and white, it would make you a person in difficult situation who did their best to survive.

 

 

Also my personal view of dwarves are that they don't compromise in this way. They make their way through life with their own skills and there own prowess in battle. You would be a criminal because you choose to be one, if you don't want to do crime then shoe a horse. Also, I hate the idea of Dwarven families teaching their kids to be scum. In my mind family is where dwarves learn the honor and warrior culture.

 

 

You personal view is not consistent with what we know about Dwarves in DA. Dwarven society is based on caste system, you can't be anything outside your caste (unless you go to the surface or join the Legion) so only Warrior Caste would learn this warrior culture you're referring too.

 

Merchant Caste, learn to be Merchants, Servants, learn to be servants, Smith, learn to be smiths etc 

 

You make it sound so easy, oh don't want to join the Carta then learn to shoe a horse, never mind that it is very difficult to break away from a family career regardless of what it is and that the Carta would probably kill you or your family if you left.

 

You can change his moral stance, but that doesn't change his RECENT history. As I said before, you cannot go full lawful without being a hypocrite.

 

Sure you can. You can say 'I recognize that I've made mistakes in my life and I regret them. I'll dedicate my life to trying to rectify my mistakes'

 

You'd only be a hypocrite if you try to pretend you were never a criminal 

[karushna5]

Criminal doesnt need to mean bad, at all. It is smuggling, and you can decide how far into it you are. Were you the lookout? the face? Someone looking for a way out? Were you a robin Hood sort? Were you going to turn your family in just looking for the chance? Criminal=/ evil OR Neutral.

Batman is a vigilante. Criminal good guy. Robin Hood was a criminal. Sherlock Holmes best case had him breaking the law. Aladdin in the cartoon was an out an out thief and was no less noble for it. I guess it is how you want to portray yourself, or headcannon or what have you.

[The Night Haunter]

Was Han Solo a bad guy? Was he Evil or even Neutral? 

 

He was a smuggler, so I think you're overreacting a bit.

[Rake451]

Alot of people have pointed it out, but fiction is full of characters that are on the wrong side of the law, but are decent people.  Han Solo's a smuggler wrapped up in a bad spot with a crime lord, but he never comes off as a badguy.  Leon the Professional is a hired killer, but he's such a good guy that you pull for him.

 

Hell, in real life there's plenty of real examples.of criminals doing something good when the chips are down.  In 2008, a car thief broke into a van and found that the back of it was full of explosives, and sitting in the middle of a residential area.  Instead of walking away and potentially getting a ton of people killed, the thief risked his own life, and drove the van to a deserted stretch of waterfront property, miles away from anything else.  Then he called a cop who had arrested him before, and told him about the bomb.  The cops took care of it, praised the guy as a hero, and let him walk.

 

A criminal doesn't have to be a monster.  Sometimes they're just people doing what they have to do to survive.  And sometimes they can be heroes.

[Andraste_Reborn]

You will still be a hypocrite if you play a lawful style and don't bend to every sob story you hear. You were a criminal a few days ago.

 

I said he was noble and honourable, not that he was lawful - I'm picturing him as more Neutral Good. He's certainly going to be sympathetic to anyone who has made mistakes in their past and wants to change, because he's been there. (I imagine he'll have some interesting conversations with Leliana and Iron Bull.) The unrepentant, on the other hand, are getting a face full of two-handed axe.

 

If your objection is that you can't play a dwarf who's never broken the law, well, you're right. You also can't play as an Orzammar exile, or a city elf, or a follower of the Qun, or a Tevinter magister, or a Fex (whatever a Fex is) or any number of other kinds of people that exist in the setting. Those are the breaks.

 

The backgrounds certainly give us limitations to work within, I just don't think they prevent dwarf Inquisitors from being good people, or having a sense of honour.

 

Also my personal view of dwarves are that they don't compromise in this way.

 

Except that's obviously not true of Dragon Age dwarves. We've got plenty of example of dwarves ignoring their better instincts because of family, caste or sheer necessity. (And that's not even getting into all the dwarves that don't seem to have any better instincts, like Bhelen Aeducan and Bartrand.)

 

Also, I hate the idea of Dwarven families teaching their kids to be scum. In my mind family is where dwarves learn the honor and warrior culture.

 

Have you even met any Dragon Age dwarves? Warrior culture is only a thing among the warrior caste and some of the nobles, and it's usually compromised by politics. That's what makes them so damn interesting!

[aTigerslunch]

I met a dragon age dwarf, she told me, stop staring. 

[In Exile]

I would say yes, kind of, depending on what "good" means. That's an awfully vague term (I don't know exact, precise definitions for the DnD version of "good").

 

Being a criminal is a choice (as far as the dwarven commoner, not talking about RL). Lots of people would say "but you die otherwise!" but since when does "good" depend on your well-being?

 

Well, lots of moral theories (and the criminal justice system) recognize that certain otherwise wrongful acts aren't wrongful depending on necessity (e.g. taking a life in self-defence). 

[Deebo305]

When has background really affected how you'll play the rest the game anyway?

In the end, just like Origins, it won't really matter in the grand scheme

[aTigerslunch]

Background does come up more than once in Origins actually, and presents itself again at the end scene.

[dekarserverbot]

I don't really see how it locks you into an alignment. Hawke could be a smuggler.

Hawke could be a couch potato... and nobody will care about it

[Nohvarr]

OP, what I am seeing from your posts is that your own personal view of Dwarves has little to do with how they are presented in the Dragon Age Universe. So I must ask, if your view of what Dwarves should be is so inflexible that you find playing as one in DA:I repugnant....why are you playing as one?