275 réponses à ce sujet

[Gruftlord]

as a NWN player mostly (i bought NWN2 twice, but never got around to playing it much), i think this thread for the most part kept civil, and the name calling only started when the tensions rose between speakers of both sides. before, i can clearly see how the arguments were painted with an NWN2 modders POV, but aside from that rational and friendly (aside from maybe calling us old grumps unwilling to switch. well, tell that to my skyrim mods on the nexus ).

 

so, yeah, i only wanted to let you know that you seem like a nice bunch of people. have fun.

[rjshae]

Well I'd rather not delve into the personality conflicts because those tend to be inflammatory and ultimately self-defeating toward any type of constructive discussion. These I can perhaps respond to:

 

Q. What about Spelljammer? Can you create Atmosphere, Phlogiston or Wild-Space areas with the NwN2 toolset?

 

Elevated surfaces can be created in exterior areas using walkmesh helpers, for example, then one can paint the ground with a suitable texture. Or you can completely conceal the ground with a fog or just paint it a black color. The sky can be modified with a different texture file. (I know there are some nice ones in NWN that could make a good porting project.) The ship models would need to be ported, naturally.

 

Is that what you mean?

 

Another possibility is to use the overland map technique to create broad areas painted with a suitable texture.

 

Q. Are there decent cave (as opposed to mine) entrances and exits among the custom content created for NwN2? I ask this because in the oc (and expansions) there only seemed to be mines and the entrances/exits had doors.

 

Perhaps these may satisfy your need:

• RWS Cave Entrances
• Pits and Entrances
• Cave Entrance Reskin

Q. Are there any placeable buildings?

 

The toolset has a number of buildings under the BUILDING PROPS placeables, most of which have been ported to NWN, I believe. There are also some mods containing additional buildings. Are you looking for a specific type?

 

Regarding using the exterior area spray tool, it can be very helpful to turn down the pressure percentage to a manageable amount. Say 10%. That will slow down the rate of change and allow finer control. You should be able to make gentle changes in terrain that look pretty decent.

[-Semper-]

I chose not to go to the trouble of trying to make a module in NwN 2 entirely because of the sculpting tool. I happen to know my limitations and drawing is not one of my plus points. To be honest a penguin with saint vitas dance can probably draw better than I can. Therefore expecting me to create an exterior area using a tool that requires a level of dexterity beyond my capabilities is just not going to happen.

 

imo that's a valid point, and highlights the strength of a tileset mechanic. while it may not be the best solution to support creative freedom, it makes sure that everything is on the same level and looks consistent. artistically gifted people will suffer from it and possibly hate it with a passion, but the not so talented will be glad for the assistance. circling back to my point personally i am put off by bad and sloppy area design. it's difficult for me to get over that because i am constantly reminded of it. as soon as my eyes are getting bored the module has to have a really good story and/or interesting mechanics to keep me playing.

[kamal_]

I made a Spelljammer proof of concept once in about an hour (about 45 minutes were spent making the custom vfx look good), some ships moving around with phlogiston trails. Since there's long been polymorphing the party into a single ship with the Overland Map functionality, the party could easily be represented as a spelljammer ship during travel.
https://dl.dropboxus..._spelljammer.7z

[Tchos]

The NWN1 systems need summaries to explain what they are, because any NWN2 equivalents may not have similar names or acronyms.

 

Most interiors (including caves and dungeons) are done with tiles in NWN2 just like in NWN1, so there's no need to extol their virtues.  Random dungeons like Infinite Dungeons can be done in NWN2.  I just did a proof of concept video on this forum with dynamic tileset changing a couple of weeks ago.  Tilesets can be changed and rearranged instantly in-game, and appropriate placeables to decorate them can be spawned and destroyed as needed.

[Dann-J]

Let's clear a few things up. I chose not to go to the trouble of trying to make a module in NwN 2 entirely because of the sculpting tool.

 

Why not make an NWN2 module only with interior areas? You don't have to make exteriors if you don't want to, and there are plenty of circumstances where you could justify interiors only (the Underdark, dungeon crawls, etc). You can even create fake exteriors using interior tiles if absolutely necessary.

 

Or you can create flat exteriors that don't need any sculpting. Deserts, tundra, salt flats, or cities can all be legitimately represented with perfectly flat terrain. A few placeables, some grass, and some vegetation can dress up a flat area nicely.

 

I personally prefer to have few external areas and lots of interiors, in order to keep MOD file sizes down.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I am the OP and I posted the question here because this is the community I participate in. I posted it in the General Discussion area because I expect there are people who have played and modded NWN1 and played NWN2 but have chosen not to mod NWN2. I wanted to know why without the discourse rapidly devolving into sniping. I expected that the thread would last longer and have more well thought out responses in this forum than if I had posted it in the NWN forum. Also I am known in this forum as a long-time contributor and I thought that might result in more thoughtful responses.  Which for a bit there were. So, TR, thanks for your responses, but I think that your attack on a mod because it lacked potions was at best childish and completely contrary to the intent of this thread. There was no call for being insulting. The posts by people I have never heard of and who have never bothered to patch NWN2 and yet complain about it have also been a joy to read.

 

At this point I think I have learned everything I needed to know which is that there really isn't anything that the NWN2 modding community can do to entice any NWN modders to bring their creativity to NWN2.  There also isn't any particularly valid reason why the NWN modders do not try to mod NWN2, they simply won't. Personally I think that is a shame because I'm sure there is talent and creativity there and there might even be ways to develop some things to be compatible with both NWN and NWN2.  But when the responses all basically come down to things like "if I can't swim (mount, fly, fart, whatever) then there is no point", and defining NWN as NWN + all free content but defining NWN2 as the unpatched NWN2 OC, then perhaps there really is no opportunity for a meeting of the minds on this.  And maybe that is for the best.

 

Regards

[Tchos]

(Though of course, we can swim.)

[Dann-J]

(Though of course, we can swim.)

 

We can also jump or ride horses (to give just two examples), thanks to talented content creators.

 

When I play a game that doesn't support something I'd like it to, I don't see that as a problem. I see it as a modding challenge.

[AndarianTD]

My thoughts for the record, posted on the NWN thread: http://forum.bioware...wn2/?p=17447504

[AndarianTD]

I agree that for non-artists painting exterior areas can be challenging and intimidating. But considering that the game ships with dozens of pre-made exteriors and hundreds more are available for free, that is hardly a significant obstacle. Scripts and conversations are easier in NWN2.

 

This depends entirely on what it is that you're trying to accomplish with modding in the first place. In my own case, it was to develop an RPG adaptation of part of a novel series that I was working on. That's not something that I could have even considered doing with second-hand areas that didn't match my vision of the story.

[Gruftlord]

I think there was never a chance to convince any modder to switch to the other game in recent year. Both are old and clunky by todays standards. And while both games share a large common basis, there are areas, where each one shines. And each one has its deficits, i'm pretty sure we all agree on that. No version of nwn is clearly better than the other.
It boils down to personal preferences. Those argumemts that do not sound convincing to any member of the other modding group.
But lets face it, those of us, that still remain in either group are those that stayed, because the game scratched a very specific itch. And we have stayed, despite all the myriards of awesome games that came in the years that followed.
It's that we all are here, because we found just the right combinations of things we were looking for and downside we didn't care for. Those few nwn modders (either generation) remaiming have simply very very very specific interests in a game. Too specific in fact to encourage a switch to the other game.

[The Amethyst Dragon]

Just throwing in my two cents, since I was pointed to this thread via one in the NWN1 forums.

 

I'm one of those "didn't (and likely never will) switch to NWN2" modders. I started working with the NWN toolset a year or more after getting the game, eventually getting my own PW online in mid-2006 (built and running on a then- 3 year old desktop PC). A year later and I got new laptop, which was not top of the line and wouldn't be able to handle NWN2.  7 years later and I've just now gotten a new computer that might handle NWN2, but as for development...I've now got 9+ years of serious work invested in my PW, I create copious amounts of custom content with free software (gmax for models, a few community-made tools, and an oooold version of Photoshop for images)...trying to convert my entire PW to NWN2 for module development just isn't worth my time or monetary investment.

 

The NWN2 toolset wouldn't be a problem for me to learn...a day or so to play around with it would be all I'd need to get the hang of it.

 

So, yeah. I stick with NWN1 because a ) it's cheaper because I use free software to make new models, b ) up until a month ago I didn't have a computer that could run the game, and c ) I'm already too invested in my existing PW to consider trying to convert it all to NWN2 (or start over from scratch).

 

If I get the time though (which I have less and less of since I've added 3 more offspring since I started working on NWN), I might buy the program from gog.com to try out some of the modules/PWs NWN2 people have made over the years.

[Loki_999]

Here's perhaps a more up-to-date reason. I just installed Win 8 on a second drive (never will use that abortion as my primary OS, but need it for Elite: Dangerous), and i can't get the toolset to work at all with it.  Its giving a CLR error (assuming .NET) but have installed .NET 2 and 3 - but you have to install the version they automatically push down for you, you can't install the old version.

 

This means from Win 8 onwards, no toolset possible, unless something changes with 10.

 

Fortunately i have a Win 7 VM already set up for Toolset work anyway since my primary OS is Linux.

 

I'm presuming that the NWN1 Toolset does not suffer this problem.

[Thorsson64]

Unfortunately NWN2 becomes glitchier as time passes, thanks to it not fully supporting more recent video cards. It especially hates recent NVidia cards, despite the fact that is was made specifically for them. If there was ever another official patch, or the source code was released enabling a good quality community patch, then the first thing I would request would be better support for modern graphics cards (which would no doubt include support for Direct X 11). The lighting and shadow algorithms could do with a bit of tweaking as well.

 

When I first installed NWN2 many years ago, I was forced to turn a lot of the graphics options down. Within a couple of years better video cards and processors caught up, and it was running beautifully for me. A couple of years (and a couple of computers) later, and graphics glitches started showing up as video card technology advanced too far for the game engine to cope with. I suspect newer operating systems aren't helping either.

 

I have Windows 8.1 and get no glitches at all on my modern AMD card. It sounds to me like the NVidia drivers are at fault. Have you reported the problems to them or sought help on one of the more technical forums?

 

Loki - have you tried this? http://windows.micro...ework-windows-8

[rjshae]

Here's perhaps a more up-to-date reason. I just installed Win 8 on a second drive (never will use that abortion as my primary OS, but need it for Elite: Dangerous), and i can't get the toolset to work at all with it.  Its giving a CLR error (assuming .NET) but have installed .NET 2 and 3 - but you have to install the version they automatically push down for you, you can't install the old version.

 

This means from Win 8 onwards, no toolset possible, unless something changes with 10.

 

Fortunately i have a Win 7 VM already set up for Toolset work anyway since my primary OS is Linux.

 

I'm presuming that the NWN1 Toolset does not suffer this problem.

 

I'm using the toolset in Windows 8 using compat mode. It's a little glitchy with regard to tinting, but otherwise works fine.

[Loki_999]

@Thorrson - yup, that's what i used.

 

And the error indicates its a problem with .NET, not drivers, but could be.  Anyone using an Nvidia card got it working? What version of drivers?

[Tchos]

Loki: I really should keep the links on hand to give to others, but you need a specific DirectX version to be installed, and also possibly a specific version of .NET.  These versions do not come preinstalled with current editions of Windows, and must be installed.  If you have the disc version of the game, the ones you need are included in a folder on the disc.  If not, hopefully someone else around here will be able to tell you the specific ones and/or give you a link.

[Shallina]

I don' t know how so much false assertion can be thrown to try to defend the "ancestor".

 

NWN has only one thing over NWN2, it 's that it 's all tile, and can allow quicker exterior area creation, not better area, just "quicker to make area" that I find super ugly. Making quality like NWN1 exterior area in NWN2 isn 't very time consumming, it 's actually super fast as well. 1 or 2 textures, something almost fully plane, and a few placeable...

 

Everything else is actually inferior.

 

So why poeple still go with NWN ?

 

1 : Beceause they invested "to much" in it to make the switch in their opinion, which can be true for older project like PW.

2 : they have a really really poor hardware and can 't run NWN2.

3 : a strong emotional tie with the first game or their work on it.

 

All the others reasons are completly irational, or fallacy.

[-Semper-]

Everything else is actually inferior.

 

no need to fuel the fire, but that's a fallacy too. as already said numerous times, custom content creation is far superior because it wholly depends on freeware tools. there's no way to create animations for nwn2 without access to 3dsmax. also polymorphing was way better in nwn. if polymorphed the pc was able to use unique creature abilities. lastly the whole inventory system with its big icons was liked by a lot of people too. guess the latter is a draw because of personal preference

[Tchos]

I like big inventory icons, too.  I've considered adding a feature to my UI mod to make the inventory icons twice as large, but then I'd have to either add scrolling to the inventory, give it a second page, or just increase the size of the whole inventory panel.  Not sure which would be better.

[-Semper-]

while your statement is pure trolling and has nothing to do with the argument, i can assure you that i am playing in such a camera position that the polycount doesn't matter that much. besides texture work is the most important thing always. plus i personally prefer creature/model diversity before rectangles for arms.

[Dann-J]

From a purely visual perspective, NWN2 trumps NWN - which you would fully expect given that it's a more recent game. Once I'd experienced NWN2 I could never again go without sculptable exterior terrain with paintable textures, swaying grass and speedtrees, normal maps on models (although I see that's also possible in NWN), skies with dynamic day/night cycles, moving clouds, etc.

 

From a gameplay perspective, both games have their strengths and weaknesses. However NWN2 is just so damn pretty that you can excuse her for her faults.