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Did the Quarians deserve to die?


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#251
Farangbaa

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No it isn't in any way a morality judgement. Not even a little. If my goal is to survive and I have the choice between being shot In the head or the hand, based on what I know of human physiology, it would be stupid for me to choose being shot in the head. Yet this is exactly what the geth did. Their goal was survival, and instead of fleeing (high chance of survival), surrenduring and allowing quarians to control them (high chance of survival, albiet without free will), stand and fight without reaper assistance (low chance of survival), they chose to become reaper thralls (loss of free will and virtually nonexistent chance of survival without intervention of space jesus).

The rest of your post is just so dumb I am literally not even going to respond at length, except to ask if you think that the quarians that tried to protect their geth in Rannoch: Geth Fighter Squadrons were imaginary red sand induced hallucinations of Shepard's. Now contrast that with your hyperbolic"every single encounter with non geth has ultimately resulted in attempted murder" rubbish.

Practically the only thing you are right about is that both sides share some blame for the situation. Please, learn the universe lore so you can actually come up with a valid response instead of just blindly regurgitating emotionally driven, unsupported and incorrect nonsense.

 

You might have forgotten how the Quarians respond to the Geth developping their own thoughts, but the Geth haven't. Being controlled by the Quarians again is not an option to them.



#252
Farangbaa

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*Ignores Tali talking about agriculture samples literally right after the mission*.
 

 

Yeah, those samples provide food straight away, isntead of taking like a year or more to start producing food.

 

Seriously, are you for real? Do you think food just magically pops up within a day of settling on Rannoch?



#253
DeinonSlayer

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The civilians on Rannoch would need to be fed, ya know?
Food would need be brought to them instead of them bring food to the fleets.

If we're gonna ignore that, they could be dropped on any planet, moon or even be spaced.

I explained that. They're still eating the output of the liveships. The ships which aren't cannibalized for ground shelters are off handling war logistics for the Krogan and Turians, with the Turians in all likelihood being responsible for feeding the crews of those ships being as they're out of range for regular deliveries from Rannoch.

Spacing the civvies seems like the kind of plan Massively would come up with, and granted it would make the ships available faster, but neither it nor the lingering airless moon variety are conducive to their survival as a species.

At the end of the day? They tried to take back Rannoch because it was their best chance of surviving.

#254
Farangbaa

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I explained that. They're still eating the output of the liveships. The ships which aren't cannibalized for ground shelters are handing war logistics for the Krogan and Turians, with the Turians in all likelihood being responsible for feeding the crews of those ships.

Spacing the civvies seems like the kind of plan Massively would come up with, and granted it would make the ships available faster, but neither it nor the lingering airless moon variety are conducive to their survival as a species.

At the end of the day? They tried to take back Rannoch because it was their best chance of surviving.

 

They only need to be on whatever rock they're dropped on until the final assault ends in victory or defeat. Any rock will do for that, especially if they're going to eat up the food reserves they already have.



#255
Quarian Master Race

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Yeah, those samples provide food straight away, isntead of taking like a year or more to start producing food.

 

Seriously, are you for real? Do you think food just magically pops up within a day of settling on Rannoch?

actually, none of us knows how agriculture works in 2186, but the Quarians are capable of doing it on a starship in an airless environment without sunlight. I assume that simple genetic engineering to make crops grow faster is probably pretty simple by their space magic standards.



#256
DeinonSlayer

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They only need to be on whatever rock they're dropped on until the final assault ends in victory or defeat. Any rock will do for that, especially if they're going to eat up the food reserves they already have.

*sigh*

Good night.

#257
Farangbaa

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*sigh*

Good night.

 

Good night.

 

You're acting like the war is going to take decades and thus they need to have a planet. We all know this isn't the case and wasn't going to be the case. It's 'shoot the space magic gun' from the start and everybody knows it.

 

actually, none of us knows how agriculture works in 2186, but the Quarians are capable of doing it on a starship in an airless environment without sunlight. I assume that simple genetic engineering to make crops grow faster is probably pretty simple by their space magic standards.

 

Yeah lets work with space magic.



#258
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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No it isn't in any way a morality judgement. Not even a little. If my goal is to survive and I have the choice between being shot In the head or the hand, based on what I know of human physiology, it would be stupid for me to choose being shot in the head. Yet this is exactly what the geth did. Their goal was survival, and instead of fleeing (high chance of survival), surrenduring and allowing quarians to control them (high chance of survival, albiet without free will), stand and fight without reaper assistance (low chance of survival), they chose to become reaper thralls (loss of free will and virtually nonexistent chance of survival without intervention of space jesus).

The rest of your post is just so dumb I am literally not even going to respond at length, except to ask if you think that the quarians that tried to protect their geth in Rannoch: Geth Fighter Squadrons were imaginary red sand induced hallucinations of Shepard's. Now contrast that with your hyperbolic"every single encounter with non geth has ultimately resulted in attempted murder" rubbish.

Practically the only thing you are right about is that both sides share some blame for the situation. Please, learn the universe lore so you can actually come up with a valid response instead of just blindly regurgitating emotionally driven, unsupported and incorrect nonsense.

Every living thing's goal is to survive. You don't see people running away when people are attacking them, do you? Countries don't surrender at the beginning of an invasion. Stop trying to apply individual biological instincts to group actions. The two rarely, and shouldn't, go together. 

What's dumb about it? It's impossible to get lost in the Perseus Veil, unless you went there intentionally. Maybe you should learn the lore. 

The Quarians who the Quarian military killed for siding with the Geth? Sure. That really should give the Geth warm feelings. "Has ultimately," I quote myself. The Geth's, as a whole, one encounter with outsiders resulted with attempted genocide. The Geth think in a hive mind. 

And if the Quarians ever got near the Veil during those three hundred years, whoever got killed got what they deserved. 

Perhaps it is you who should be doing that. 



#259
Quarian Master Race

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*sigh*

Good night.

Seconded. I've had enough of *construct well reasoned argument supported by facts from in universe lore> 1 liner of unsupported hyperbolic suppositional crap response completely ignoring it and the last 10 pages of debate*

Everyone who went near a geth should have just thrown themselves into a blender. It's their fault they died, not the supposedly sentient machine that pulled the trigger. Quarians r meanies. I don't even

/thread


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#260
Farangbaa

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You know you're going to get shot if you enter the Perseus Veil, so entering it is the smart thing to do, you say?

 

Lol lol lol.


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#261
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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A Quarian entering the Perseus Veil is like a Nazi running around Israel. 

They're asking to get shot, and the one doing the shooting would be perfectly justified in doing so. 



#262
von uber

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What even three hundred years later if they are not actually guilty of anything? Sounds like murder to me.

#263
SporkFu

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Time doesn't mean anything to a geth.



#264
Farangbaa

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What even three hundred years later if they are not actually guilty of anything? Sounds like murder to me.

 

I didn't say they weren't guilty. I'm just saying the Quarians could hardly be surprised they'd try to kill them.



#265
von uber

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I didn't say they weren't guilty. I'm just saying the Quarians could hardly be surprised they'd try to kill them.


Well not really, it's like a spaniard going to the Netherlands in the 1960's and not being surprised the dutch try to kill him.

#266
Farangbaa

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Well not really, it's like a spaniard going to the Netherlands in the 1960's and not being surprised the dutch try to kill him.

 

Aren't you a century or 3 off here?

 

Or am I missing something in our very recent history?

 

If that's your point btw, then this applies:

 

Time doesn't mean anything to a geth.

 


#267
von uber

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Spanish Netherlands in the 1600's, so I don't think I am off :P

#268
Farangbaa

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Spanish Netherlands in the 1600's, so I don't think I am off :P

 

As said before, but now I'll have Javik say it:

 

3omNoV.jpg



#269
DeinonSlayer

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Good night.

You're acting like the war is going to take decades and thus they need to have a planet. We all know this isn't the case and wasn't going to be the case. It's 'shoot the space magic gun' from the start and everybody knows it.

You're acting like the survival of their fleet in the Reaper conflict is a given. You saw the kinds of casualties absorbed in the final battle, and on top of those losses they have to cannibalize many of the ships which aren't used against the Reapers to construct groundside shelters per ME2 for want of other materials. Whatever planet they set down on, they have to be prepared to survive there indefinitely - meaning "terminator zone of a tidally locked dwarf planet with no atmosphere" is a slow death sentence. Rannoch has unique plant life which they are physiologically dependent on interacting with for their immune systems to function properly. It's the only place in the galaxy where a suit breach or an unfiltered breath of air won't kill. They have a better chance of surviving there unassisted than anywhere else.

With the relays gone, potentially for many years, their fleet might as well have been lost fighting the Reapers for all the good it will do in terms of relocating them again.

#270
Farangbaa

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What does it matter where they are if their fleet is destroyed in the conflict with the Reapers?

 

If their fleet is destroyed the galaxy is lost and the harvest will be finalized



#271
fhs33721

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You're acting like the survival of their fleet in the Reaper conflict is a given. You saw the kinds of casualties absorbed in the final battle, and on top of those losses they have to cannibalize many of the ships which aren't used against the Reapers to construct groundside shelters per ME2 for want of other materials. Whatever planet they set down on, they have to be prepared to survive there indefinitely - meaning "terminator zone of a tidally locked dwarf planet with no atmosphere" is a slow death sentence. Rannoch has unique plant life which they are physiologically dependent on interacting with for their immune systems to function properly. It's the only place in the galaxy where a suit breach or an unfiltered breath of air won't kill. They have a better chance of surviving there unassisted than anywhere else.

With the relays gone, potentially for many years, their fleet might as well have been lost fighting the Reapers for all the good it will do in terms of relocating them again.

Except a suit breach or a breath of unfiltered air doesn't immediately kill them. Tali has her suit damaged sometimes and lives, the quarian at the beginning od ME2 as well. It just makes them sick to variing degrees, which can be treated with medicine. Also the exact same thing would happen on Rannoch. The quarians are so used to sterile rooms that even the air on Rannoch makes them sick, it would just take less time to biuld immunity agianst it. It would still be years before they can live on Rannoch without suits. And with the relays gone or the fleet destroyed they'd pretty much starve on Rannoch as well as on any other planet.


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#272
DeinonSlayer

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What does it matter where they are if their fleet is destroyed in the conflict with the Reapers?

If their fleet is destroyed the galaxy is lost and the harvest will be finalized

Come now. You know better than that. If the Kwunu was the only ship to survive the fight, but the Crucible was successfully deployed, the battle will have been won. Point is, whatever their plan is, it has to work for them long-term regardless of the losses taken among the fleet while it's deployed.

Except a suit breach or a breath of unfiltered air doesn't immediately kill them. Tali has her suit damaged sometimes and lives, the quarian at the beginning od ME2 as well. It just makes them sick to variing degrees, which can be treated with medicine. Also the exact same thing would happen on Rannoch. The quarians are so used to sterile rooms that even the air on Rannoch makes them sick, it would just take less time to biuld immunity agianst it. It would still be years before they can live on Rannoch without suits. And with the relays gone or the fleet destroyed they'd pretty much starve on Rannoch as well as on any other planet.

And they just have an endless wellspring of those meds, don't they? "You've only seen our strike ops, Tali. Don't have the fancy kit in a front-line fight. Supplies get short. Things get ugly, fast." Only instead of a few hundred soldiers fighting, you have about six or seven million civilians engaged in heavy construction efforts.

They aren't going to starve on Rannoch, come on now. Even without meta-knowledge from the ending slides you should know better than that. The liveship facilities can tide them over long enough to establish local agriculture. There is nothing to establish local agriculture with on the aforementioned tidally-locked dwarf planet.

#273
Farangbaa

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Somehow these facilities don't work on the dwarf planet but they do in the nothingness of space? 

 

Please man. Wanting Rannoch is just greed. They could drop them on any planet and have those facilities that work in the nothingness of space provide food for them until they are picked up.

 

Yep, that's no fun, but this isn't about fun.



#274
fhs33721

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And they just have an endless wellspring of those meds, don't they? "You've only seen our strike ops, Tali. Don't have the fancy kit in a front-line fight. Supplies get short. Things get ugly, fast." Only instead of a few hundred soldiers fighting, you have about ten million engaged in heavy construction efforts.

They aren't going to starve on Rannoch, come on now. Even without meta-knowledge from the ending slides you should know better than that. The liveship facilities can tide them over long enough to establish local agriculture. There is nothing to establish local agriculture with on the aforementioned tidally-locked dwarf planet.

And do they have an endless wellspring of meds on Rannoch? No they don't.

How do they eat the stuff they plant on Rannoch if they get sick from the very air there? You missed the main point. Rannoch's envrionment is just as dangerous for the quanrians as any other planet. It would still take them years to get used to it. So they can only survive those years by using their sterile liveship facilities, which they could do on any other planet. What makes Rannoch so superior in the very specific situation of ME3?

 

Furthermore the whole attack wasn't the smartest move to begin with.

"Remember the sentinent killer machines that kicked our civilisation back into the time of nomads? Let's attack them with all our population at once. Let's even put guns on our civilian ships and send them right into battle. There is no conceivable way this carefully laid plan could backfire in any way. "

 

That being said: To the original question of the thread: No the quarians don't deserve death at all, since most of them are just civilians that had no say in anything. The leadership though deserves a punch in the face for their "flawless plan".



#275
DeinonSlayer

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Somehow these facilities don't work on the dwarf planet but they do in the nothingness of space? 
 
Please man. Wanting Rannoch is just greed. They could drop them on any planet and have those facilities that work in the nothingness of space provide food for them until they are picked up.
 
Yep, that's no fun, but this isn't about fun.

Easier said than done. Seems you're trying really hard not to understand this. The Migrant Fleet's facilities were degrading to the breaking point even before the Reaper war. They'll go down faster without access to outside infrastructure and manufacturing. Best estimate was they had eighty years left, per Ascension. You're thinking they'll keep roaming in space afterwards, but they're looking at permanent settlement for lack of survivable alternatives, and it isn't something that can be done more than once. Carving an old hauler down to make ground structures for more people to live in is a one-way change.

And you're still assuming that the fleet will both have survived to pick them up, and be within range to do so (with the relays destroyed no less). Again, they see the writing on the wall. They're conscious of the losses their fleet will absorb in the coming fight. They can't afford to assume they'll be there to pick them up; hence they have to be able to survive permanently wherever they set down. Rannoch has the resources, in terms of plant life, atmosphere, water and repurposeable technology, for them to survive even after the tech they brought with them breaks down. "Nearest convenient rock" does not.

And do they have an endless wellspring of meds on Rannoch? No they don't.

Point being, they won't get as sick there as they would experiencing similar accidents elsewhere.

How do they eat the stuff they plant on Rannoch if they get sick from the very air there? You missed the main point. Rannoch's envrionment is just as dangerous for the quanrians as any other planet. It would still take them years to get used to it. So they can only survive those years by using their sterile liveship facilities, which they could do on any other planet. What makes Rannoch so superior in the very specific situation of ME3?

Read the codex entry on liveships. They grind down and sterilize the plant matter.

"It's the difference between sixty years and six hundred." The six hundred on another planet would be contingent on bioengineerig themselves to eliminate their dependency on their native plant life; technology which is both unavailable in the aftermath of the Reaper war and illegal in Council space.
 

Furthermore the whole attack wasn't the smartest move to begin with.
"Remember the sentinent killer machines that kicked our civilisation back into the time of nomads? Let's attack them with all our population at once. Let's even put guns on our civilian ships and send them right into battle. There is no conceivable way this carefully laid plan could backfire in any way. "

Their civilian ships were already armed. That's kind of necessary when you live in the Terminus systems, and neither the Geth nor the Reapers have ever distinguished between armed and unarmed ships. Where's the benefit in not being armed?

The plan deployed against the Geth was a solid one, and worked just fine until the Geth accepted the offer the Reapers made in advance of the Quarian invasion and got code upgrades which even the heretics never had.
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