376 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordokai]

So little baby Larry, the Quarian is responsible for Han'Gerrel shooting at you? Okaaay...

I guess that means the Asari species, as a whole, is responsible for every Eclipse merc that tried to kill you. And because the Asari are annoying f*cks, clearly

 

I could go into reasoning why your comparison doesn't hold but in the end, it would result in another flame war and everybody being worse for the wear.

 

It all really simple, actually. I like asari. I like geth. I don't like quarians. Really, that's all there is to it.

[Farangbaa]

That conversation with EDI, flame and sword are not enough to purge it

 

That was great, man.

 

EDI: Maybe I side instinctively with the familiar too

 

Sh*t.. where's the airlock? She is the airlock. F***

[Quarian Master Race]

lolasari. At least quarians don't nearly doom the entire galaxy by withholding until the last second  knowlege about a Prothean beacon and VI sitting in an old temple that could end the game in the first act, while allowing everyone else's planets to burn simply because they don't want everyone to know that their status as being the most advanced race in the galaxy on their own merits is a contrived lie. Until, of course, their own homeworld is under siege.

If there is any race who deserved to go extinct for their own hubris, the quarians are certainly a distant second to that. Unfortunately, the game never gave me such a choice.
 

[RiptideX1090]

I could go into reasoning why your comparison doesn't hold but in the end, it would result in another flame war and everybody being worse for the wear.

 

It all really simple, actually. I like asari. I like geth. I don't like quarians. Really, that's all there is to it.

 

That's racist, yo.

[RiptideX1090]

lolasari. At least quarians don't nearly doom the entire galaxy by withholding until the last second  knowlege about a Prothean beacon and VI sitting in an old temple that could end the game in the first act, while allowing everyone else's planets to burn simply because they don't want everyone to know that their status as being the most advanced race in the galaxy on their own merits is a contrived lie. Until, of course, their own homeworld is under siege.

If there is any race who deserved to go extinct for their own hubris, the quarians are certainly a distant second to that. Unfortunately, the game never gave me such a choice.
 

 

No race deserves to go extinct because a few people, especially their politicians, are a bunch of asshats. The asari government is composed of a bunch of irresponsible losers, and the quarian Admiralty is run by morons, but that doesn't mean their entire race should die.

 

Really, saying any one race deserves to go extinct because a few of them are morons or jerks is like, Nazi variety idealogy. And normally, I would hate to Godwin an argument like this, but in this case, when talking about killing off an entire species, the Holocaust is actually LESS drastic than letting the Geth or the Quarians die. I literally can't think of any other real world event on the same scale that is applicable. It's racism and genocide taken the the absolute furthest extreme, and it's wrong. It's like saying New York should be Nuked because you don't like the mayor or his policies. That is illogical and insane, and what's worse, it isn't even an exaggeration, that is LITERALLY what you are saying. You can rationalize it however you want, but if you kill the quarians, you aren't killing the ones that started the war all those centuries ago, and while you may be killing the what, three who ultimately started it up again this time, you're also letting kids, babies, and average joes who were pressured into fighting die because you're completely incapable of empathy, I guess.

 

So yeah. It's totally a game and all, and that's cool. If you kill the quarians or the geth in a playthrough or two because you like to roleplay a heartless monster every once in a while, hey, more power to you. But if you legitimately believe wiping an entire species out because you don't get along with a handful of its members... then speaking as a concerned human being who wants the best for his fellow man, I seriously suggest you consider the possibility of a psychological evaluation and therapy.

 

Really.

[Barquiel]

I always sue for peace with the quarians and geth.
 
But it still pisses me off that there is no way to talk Legion out of the Reaper code. It's REAPER CODE. And it would of been a good way to have them live in Destroy. You convince Legion stay true to his principles and have the geth find their own way, and in the end, you are rewarded if you pick Destroy. It would of worked thematically.
 
But NOPE. That whole thing was handled rather poorly.

The problem is that the quarians wouldn't have stopped their attacks in that case. No code means blind Geth and an easy extermination...and Shep would have no grounds to tell Gerrel to stand down, we would have no mediation power. The necessity of the Reaper code was a problem set in motion by the quarians.

But there was of course no real reason why uploading the reaper code somehow makes the geth more aware of themselves than they already are...
 

The real question is would you save the Geth then pick the Destroy ending?

I did that on my first/canon (with no meta gaming) playthrough

[RiptideX1090]

The problem is that the quarians wouldn't have stopped their attacks in that case. No code means blind Geth and an easy extermination...and Shep would have no grounds to tell Gerrel to stand down, we would have no mediation power. The necessity of the Reaper code was a problem set in motion by the quarians.

But there was of course no real reason why uploading the reaper code somehow makes the geth more aware of themselves than they already are...
 
 

 

The whole situation is written badly. It SHOULD of played out so that you could of gotten the majority of the Admiralty to side with you. Having a Tali that didn't get Exiled, saving Korris, maybe winning Raan's support by stopping the Geth Fighters. Then when you shout down Gerrel he actually has to back off because he's overruled. Maybe you could of even gotten Xen's approval somehow or Gerrel's, and maybe some are mutually exclusive. THAT would of been how you get peace, by getting a majority of the Admiralty in your pocket.

 

Instead, Legion becomes robot Jesus, dies for the geth's sins, and they all die anyway despite the fact, unless you jump into the rainbow beam of eternal green sunshine and happiness or become the GOD EMPEROR of the Milky Way.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

No race deserves to go extinct because a few people, especially their politicians, are a bunch of asshats. The asari government is composed of a bunch of irresponsible losers, and the quarian Admiralty is run by morons, but that doesn't mean their entire race should die.

 

Really, saying any one race deserves to go extinct because a few of them are morons or jerks is like, Nazi variety idealogy. And normally, I would hate to Godwin an argument like this, but in this case, when talking about killing off an entire species, the Holocaust is actually LESS drastic than letting the Geth or the Quarians die. I literally can't think of any other real world event on the same scale that is applicable. It's racism and genocide taken the the absolute furthest extreme, and it's wrong. It's like saying New York should be Nuked because you don't like the mayor or his policies. That is illogical and insane, and what's worse, it isn't even an exaggeration, that is LITERALLY what you are saying. You can rationalize it however you want, but if you kill the quarians, you aren't killing the ones that started the war all those centuries ago, and while you may be killing the what, three who ultimately started it up again this time, you're also letting kids, babies, and average joes who were pressured into fighting die because you're completely incapable of empathy, I guess.

 

So yeah. It's totally a game and all, and that's cool. If you kill the quarians or the geth in a playthrough or two because you like to roleplay a heartless monster every once in a while, hey, more power to you. But if you legitimately believe wiping an entire species out because you don't get along with a handful of its members... then speaking as a concerned human being who wants the best for his fellow man, I seriously suggest you consider the possibility of a psychological evaluation and therapy.

 

Really.

relax. I was being facetious. Allowing Tevos and the rest of the council to die for their lack of foresight was more than satisfying enough as is. Too bad her replacement is equally moronic judging by the fact that she still withholds critical information that could have saved literally millions or billions of lives.

[RiptideX1090]

relax. I was being facetious. Allowing Tevos and the rest of the council to die for their lack of foresight was more than satisfying enough as is. Too bad her replacement is equally moronic judging by the fact that she still withholds critical information that could have saved literally millions or billions of lives.

 

I know, I know, I guess after several years of these discussions and nothing new to talk about, I'm just a bit jaded and worn out. I do apologize if I come on a bit strong.

 

And I absolutely agree. I don't hate the asari as much as some people (I actually kind of like them overall and think they have a lot of potential for good stories!), but God DAMN withholding that beacon was insanely stupid. Especially from Tevos. I mean... making it known to the galaxy? Yeah, okay, I get keeping a secret, in the wrong hands it could cause big time damage. But there was NO REASON not to show it to Shepard long before the Reapers hit Thessia. THEY HAD TIME. And Shepard saved her life!

 

:l

 

Man, I REALLY hope them taking their time with ME4 means they're taking their time with the writing, not just the gameplay. That'd be just super.

[SporkFu]

I know, I know, I guess after several years of these discussions and nothing new to talk about, I'm just a bit jaded and worn out. I do apologize if I come on a bit strong.

 

And I absolutely agree. I don't hate the asari as much as some people (I actually kind of like them overall and think they have a lot of potential for good stories!), but God DAMN withholding that beacon was insanely stupid. Especially from Tevos. I mean... making it known to the galaxy? Yeah, okay, I get keeping a secret, in the wrong hands it could cause big time damage. But there was NO REASON not to show it to Shepard long before the Reapers hit Thessia. THEY HAD TIME. And Shepard saved her life!

 

:l

 

Man, I REALLY hope them taking their time with ME4 means they're taking their time with the writing, not just the gameplay. That'd be just super.

Kinda makes me wonder if Aethyta knew anything about it. 

[RiptideX1090]

Kinda makes me wonder if Aethyta knew anything about it. 

 

I doubt it. The other matriarchs clearly didn't trust her or take her seriously. Something about laughing the blue off her ass, as I recall.

 

If she did, I would honestly like to think she would of been the one Matriarch who would of gone against the others and told Shepard.

[Barquiel]

The whole situation is written badly. It SHOULD of played out so that you could of gotten the majority of the Admiralty to side with you. Having a Tali that didn't get Exiled, saving Korris, maybe winning Raan's support by stopping the Geth Fighters. Then when you shout down Gerrel he actually has to back off because he's overruled. Maybe you could of even gotten Xen's approval somehow or Gerrel's, and maybe some are mutually exclusive. THAT would of been how you get peace, by getting a majority of the Admiralty in your pocket.

 

Instead, Legion becomes robot Jesus, dies for the geth's sins, and they all die anyway despite the fact, unless you jump into the rainbow beam of eternal green sunshine and happiness or become the GOD EMPEROR of the Milky Way.

 

Makes sense. I like the Rannoch missions and I understand why Legion (or the geth VI) accepted the reaper code....but I'm not a big fan of the "truly alive" geth. The geth and the rachni were the two alien cultures that BW tried to make truly alien. And they ruined both

 

I know, I know, I guess after several years of these discussions and nothing new to talk about, I'm just a bit jaded and worn out. I do apologize if I come on a bit strong.

 

And I absolutely agree. I don't hate the asari as much as some people (I actually kind of like them overall and think they have a lot of potential for good stories!), but God DAMN withholding that beacon was insanely stupid. Especially from Tevos. I mean... making it known to the galaxy? Yeah, okay, I get keeping a secret, in the wrong hands it could cause big time damage. But there was NO REASON not to show it to Shepard long before the Reapers hit Thessia. THEY HAD TIME. And Shepard saved her life!

 

Tevos tells you after Tuchanka that her goverment has just informed her, she didn't know about the beacon until right before she told Shepard about it. All four councilors still have to answer to their local governments and can even be stonewalled or kept in the dark by the them (that's one of the few consistent things in ME3).

[SporkFu]

I doubt it. The other matriarchs clearly didn't trust her or take her seriously. Something about laughing the blue off her ass, as I recall.

 

If she did, I would honestly like to think she would of been the one Matriarch who would of gone against the others and told Shepard.

Maybe. Could just be that she wouldn't go far enough against them to betray their secrets, but disagreed with them enough to go tend bar on Ilium. She still had enough respect among the other matriarchs to have them agree not to kill Liara as long as she kept an eye on her.... or something like that. 

[RiptideX1090]

 

Tevos tells you after Tuchanka that her goverment has just informed her, she didn't know about the beacon until right before she told Shepard about it. All four councilors still have to answer to their local governments and can even be stonewalled or kept in the dark by the them (that's one of the few consistent things in ME3).

 

Either way, they should of shown Shepard the beacon. Tevos knew about the Crucible, so I imagine Asari High Command did as well. They also would of known about Shepard and the Cypher, and the need for the Catalyst. The asari really screwed the pooch on that one. It was nice to see that the Asari aren't space angels, it's just too bad we had to turn them into space retards instead.

 

Really, the only reason they didn't show Shepard is because, like half the things that happen in ME2 and 3's plots, it had to play out that way or the game would of been over earlier.

[Mordokai]

lolasari. At least quarians don't nearly doom the entire galaxy by withholding until the last second  knowlege about a Prothean beacon and VI sitting in an old temple that could end the game in the first act, while allowing everyone else's planets to burn simply because they don't want everyone to know that their status as being the most advanced race in the galaxy on their own merits is a contrived lie. Until, of course, their own homeworld is under siege.

If there is any race who deserved to go extinct for their own hubris, the quarians are certainly a distant second to that. Unfortunately, the game never gave me such a choice.
 

 

brokenrecord.jpg

 

That's racist, yo.

 

Speciest, yo.

 

Lets be precise about it, eh?

[Barquiel]

I think most players (especially "casual" players) simply chose the race they liked better and don't really care about potential implications or that the code could be somehow dangerous etc.

[Livi14]

The difference between the quarians and other races is that most quarians knew exactly what their dumb government was up to. The average asari doesn't know the beacon even exists. The average human knows nothing about cerberus.

But the quarians? It takes an unanimous vote by the admiralty board to overrule the conclave, and a unanimous vote for war would not have happened because there's no way in hell Koris would have voted yes to the war. Which means that the civilian branch only needed to vote against the admiralty board to have the war not happen. If the civilians had told the admirals to screw off with their war idea, there would have been no war.

[themikefest]

I could go into reasoning why your comparison doesn't hold but in the end, it would result in another flame war and everybody being worse for the wear.

 

It all really simple, actually. I like asari. I like geth. I don't like quarians. Really, that's all there is to it.

And the more reason to help the reapers destroy Thessia for their nonsense of not revealing the beacon earlier. But we can't, because we have to be nicey-nice to the special-special. How many lives would've/could've been saved had the squids revealed that beacon earlier. Yeah I really miss Rupert Gardner and his Calamari Gumbo.

 

 

Tevos tells you after Tuchanka that her goverment has just informed her, she didn't know about the beacon until right before she told Shepard about it. All four councilors still have to answer to their local governments and can even be stonewalled or kept in the dark by the them (that's one of the few consistent things in ME3).

I don't know about that since I kill her in ME1, but I know her replacement knew about the beacon. Look at her actions when talking with her. She keeps looking around to see if anyone is watching her. Is she paranoid that someone will kill her for revealing the beacon? When Shepard asks why help now, her answer is she doesn't want to upset the balance of power. That means she doesn't want her species to lose it number one ranking. She never cared about the other species. It was only when the reapers came knocking on her front door that she tells Shepard about having a beacon.

 

And if the councilors have to listen to their local governments, then what's the purpose of having a council?

[Livi14]

And if the councilors have to listen to their local governments, then what's the purpose of having a council?

The Council is more like the UN than it is a collective government and the councilor represents her species just like an UN Ambassador represents the country at the United Nations, and acts as the nations spokesperson for the country.

[themikefest]

The Council is more like the UN than it is a collective government and the councilor represents her species just like an UN Ambassador represents the country at the United Nations, and acts as the nations spokesperson for the country.

They may, but they're idiots. You would figure each species could elect someone better to represent their species

[DeinonSlayer]

Oh, hey, this is an Asari thread now? *rubs hands with glee*

Tevos. Being forced to apologize to her. Me no like.

[Steelcan]

Someone said asari thread?

[Dabrikishaw]

No, but I can still choose to side with the Geth.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It boils down to this: Tali. Legion is cool and all that, but it's the only geth in the entire story that hasn't tried to put a bullet in my ass. Gerrel is the only Quarian who has tried to put a bullet in my ass. And even Xen has my back about that. And Tali is responsible for me becoming a Spectre and the galaxy not getting gobbled up.

 

Legion is not. His "people" sided with the reapers. Yeah yeah you may say out of self preservation, but they know the reapers are just using them anyway so how logical is that? Oh yeah, true unity inside a reaper destroyer - gee that's going to be cool and save a lot of work never mind that Starbrat is going to be controlling us and we'll be slaves. Is surrender not preferable to extinction? Think, they could have done the same with the Quarians. Surrendered and become slaves to them as well. Is there a difference to the Geth? I guess it's that unity carrot - "You can have your unity, AND be slaves with us. OR simply be slaves for them. And don't worry, unlike organics the upload for your software is painless. Which is it Geth?"

 

Geth: That's easy. We're with you Reapers. Death to the Quarians!

 

So the poor geth side with the reapers. And in the end Shepard is standing at the edge of the cliff, and looks at Tali and Legion....Tali....My friend.  "Sorry Legion, I can't allow you to upload the code."

[Jorji Costava]

Oh, hey, this is an Asari thread now? *rubs hands with glee*

Tevos. Being forced to apologize to her. Me no like.

 

It's a symptom of the game's decision to make the fall of Thessia the low point of the war for the characters; if you bought into the idea that the Asari are somehow 'special' and constitute the pinnacle of galactic civilization, then this might have worked for you, but otherwise, it's just perplexing why Thessia of all places is supposed to matter so much more to Shepard than Earth or Palaven.

 

Perhaps they could have cut out the Citadel coup (not a great mission on its own anyways) and replaced Thessia with a mission in which the Citadel is overrun by the Reapers. We have three games of history with the Citadel, so if you really need a gut punch to set up the climax of the story, it's a much more logical place to work from. Plus, the Citadel doesn't belong to any one species, so losing it would reinforce the sense that the war is going badly not just for the Asari or for humanity, but for the galaxy as a whole.