376 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

The US doesn't actively use large parts of Montana. Doesn't mean Canada can have it. The Quarians were trying to annex Citadel territory. Responding with force is reasonable. 

All of the medicine and food and water is produced on the liveships. You do know that, right? Almost everything the whole race has, either was taken by the people on their pilgrimage or is produced on their liveships. Which I have said they could keep multiple times, seeing as they're nothing more than glass cannons that the SR-2 could probably destroy with ease. 

Sur'Kesh was the last on the list of places to hit, and is defended by, at the time where this would come into play, the most technologically advanced and largest navy remaining in the galaxy. Two or three Reapers would annihilate the Migrant Fleet with ease. Salarian dreadnoughts have the same stealth capabilities as the Normandy, all the way down to the Reaper IFF, and chances are their cruisers will start equipping the system as well. The Geth had a navy rivaling the Turians. Even one of their dreadnoughts and is accompaniment was capable of holding off the entire Heavy Fleet. Tiny casualties, until the Geth started tearing their fleet apart. Because the Geth apparantly don't think the same way as humans do, for some reason, and will take a tiny chance at life over certain death. 

 

[Reorte]

The best course of action for the Quarians in keeping their civilians safe would be to keep them hidden in uninhabited systems, aboard the Migrant Fleet. Seizing Rannoch is ultimately foolish as it both ties the fleet down in now having to protect that planet against Geth or the Reapers, and puts the civilians directly in the path of a Reaper invasion. Had the Quarians settled Rannoch, the planet would have eventually shared the fates of Khar'Shan, Earth, Palaven, Irune, and Thessia. It gives the Reapers a target to attack.

The quarians were very vulnerable in just having the fleet. The loss of just one liveship would've been a massive disaster, and even keeping hidden they'd have lost eventually anyway. And they couldn't keep hidden all that long - the quarian fleet and hence civilisation required the rest of the galaxy's infrastructure to keep flying, it wasn't completely self-sufficient. Having a world was necessary for surviving the Reaper war no matter how things turned out.

[Steelcan]

The main issues with Sur'Kesh would be

 

A. The Salarians taking on the population, unlikely, we see in pre-release statements (namely the Twitter lead up where Emily Wong was killed) that the Dalatrasses are bickering among themselves over whether to send fleets out to help, or just secure their borders.  Given that, I doubt the Salarians will be willing to accomodate 17 million people on a planet already crowded as is.

 

B. Supply, they may have their liveships their to feed and produce goods, but they needed the strip mining capablilties of other ships in order to fabricate their goods and make fertilizer, etc..  Sur'Kesh would not be able to meet these demands on top of its own.

 

 

This also ignores the weapon that the quarians have developed that cuts geth apart like Ramsay Snow does Ironborn.

[Steelcan]

Enslavement is preferable to extinction.

 

Enslavement can be turned back, extinction not

the geth aren't enslaved, they have been re-written by the Reapers, they can't rise up against them, they are programmed tools of the Reapers now

[Barquiel]

They would still be safer on their three liveships, just hold them back in battle. At least if they stay on ships they have a chance of running away if the reapers show up in force. Because if the reapers show up on Rannoch (and if the reapers were smart they would have attacked Rannoch after Sheprd saved the quarians), you've just lost all your civilians.

But even they they want a planet there are better choices out there. I'm not so sure about Sur'Kesh for the reasons Steelcan mentioned. But what about Elcor colonies for example? Elcor and Quarians can obviously colonize the same worlds (Ekuna), and the elcor get attacked late in the war (around the same time that the asari are attacked). Or some unattacked asari colony. I guess many asari worlds have a significant turian population, so food shouldn't be a problem. Just promise them to help on Dekuuna/Thessia in exchange for shelter on some of their colony worlds.

But the quarians finally had the advantage with Xen's weapon and they wanted to used it. They wanted to wipe out the geth and attacked Rannoch.

[Steelcan]

They would still be safer on their three liveships, just hold them back in battle. At least if they stay on ships they have a chance of running away if the reapers show up in force. Because if the reapers show up on Rannoch (and if the reapers were smart they would have attacked Rannoch after Sheprd saved the quarians), you've just lost all your civilians.

But even they they want a planet there are better choices out there. I'm not so sure about Sur'Kesh for the reasons Steelcan mentioned. But what about Elcor colonies for example? Elcor and Quarians can obviously colonize the same worlds (Ekuna), and the elcor get attacked late in the war (around the same time that the asari are attacked). Or some unattacked asari colony. I guess many asari worlds have a significant turian population, so food shouldn't be a problem. Just promise them to help on Dekuuna/Thessia in exchange for shelter on some of their colony worlds.

But the quarians finally had the advantage with Xen's weapon and they wanted to used it. They wanted to wipe out the geth and attacked Rannoch.

They still have thousands, if not millions, on other ships, I remember a bit from one of the books "One cruiser, the Idenna, had a quarian population of nearly seven hundred, while an Alliance cruiser of comparative size would have only around eighty crewmen" (copied from the wiki).  If the Reapers attacked Rannoch afterwards there's nothing anyone could do about it, but at least their fleet can actually help in the war instead of running around with civilans on trying not to get caught.

 

I think that description on Ekunna must have been off or something, because Quarians and Turians are the only dextro-amino acid based life that we know of, furthermore the elcor prefer higher gravity worlds like Dekunna.  And Thessia or anotoher Asari colony may be housing turian refugees, but this is millions more to pile on-top of that.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Sort of off topic. I never understood the Quarians living on Dekuuna, wouldn't the gravity be too much for them?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Steelcan, Bioware doesn't know how to write planet descriptions. They probably said "the Quarians tried to annex Ekuna," and then did the random properties generation for the planet. It should have been dextro and within their gravitational limits. It is really bizarre, but then again it's a Bioware plot point and the details cannot be thought about.

 

The main point is that the Council wanted to screw over the Quarians again because the Fleet couldn't keep a few million squatters from settling on the planet while the Quarians filed the paperwork. The paperwork had to be filed first. That was not done. So the council responded with the fleet and gave the world to the Elcor.

 

Can't take their home world back because it might bother the Geth. Can't settle anywhere. So they develop a weapon that'll neutralize the geth. If they tried it before the Reaper invasion, the Council would probably have sent the fleet in to defend the Geth. The Reaper invasion was the perfect opportunity. And they had to unload their civilians so they could contribute to the war effort in a meaningful way.

 

By the way, all the crap about "arming school buses" and that hyperbole was bullsh*t to make you sympathize with the Geth. The Reapers don't discriminate. They kill all ships armed or not. And arming the ships kept the fleet safe from pirate attacks. They were always armed. The Live Ships just got spinal mounted Thanix weapons to give them firepower of dreadnoughts.

[Han Shot First]

Ekuna was an odd choice for the Quarians to settle. It had 4x Earth's gravity. Rannoch's surface gravity was slightly less than Earth's.

 

The Quarians should have made a push for Virmire. It has about the same surface gravity as Rannoch.

[Steelcan]

Ekuna was an odd choice for the Quarians to settle. It had 4x Earth's gravity. Rannoch's surface gravity was slightly less than Earth's.

 

The Quarians should have made a push for Virmire. It has about the same surface gravity as Rannoch.

but is it a dextro world?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You guys are trying to make sense out of this.

[Display Name Owner]

Wouldn't it have been safer to divide the Quarian population up and dump them in several different systems? Smaller encampments like that would probably attract less attention. They're just lucky the Reapers evidently didn't think it was worth their time to bombard them after the fleet had dropped them off and left. 

 

I get why the Quarians would want to attack the Geth, they've served the Reapers in the past and even if it was unwillingly, the way the Geth operate would make it possible for the Reapers to control them in their entirety. It just seems to me that Rannoch isn't any better a place to leave their people than any other, less conspicuous planet. I mean, they've got enviro-suits, they're better suited than any other species to bunker down anywhere if they're left with ample supplies, aren't they?

[DeinonSlayer]

The US doesn't actively use large parts of Montana. Doesn't mean Canada can have it. The Quarians were trying to annex Citadel territory. Responding with force is reasonable.

Actually, Ekuna was discovered by the Quarians. Development firms moved in as they were setting up their own pilot colony, and when they went to the Council to have the world they discovered recognized as a Quarian world, the Council's response was to drive them away at gunpoint. It was not Council territory - the Phoenix Massing was a part of the Terminus Systems, and no territory is recognized as Council jurisdiction until the local inhabitants (in this case, the Quarians themselves) recognize it as such.

Wouldn't it have been safer to divide the Quarian population up and dump them in several different systems? Smaller encampments like that would probably attract less attention. They're just lucky the Reapers evidently didn't think it was worth their time to bombard them after the fleet had dropped them off and left.

I get why the Quarians would want to attack the Geth, they've served the Reapers in the past and even if it was unwillingly, the way the Geth operate would make it possible for the Reapers to control them in their entirety. It just seems to me that Rannoch isn't any better a place to leave their people than any other, less conspicuous planet. I mean, they've got enviro-suits, they're better suited than any other species to bunker down anywhere if they're left with ample supplies, aren't they?

Not exactly. They never had "ample supplies" to begin with, being stuck in what the codex called a perpetual state of hand-to-mouth. Their fleet relied on external infrastructure to survive (not prospering, not getting better, but surviving) even before the Reapers turned up - they lack the capacity to manufacture many of the things their fleet needed to keep going.

Furthermore, read the codex entry on Rannoch. Quarian physiology is such that they need to interact with their native plant life for their immune systems to function properly - as much as they bear a physical resemblance, they aren't human, and have their own specific needs ("Our bodies carried the seeds which spread the desert grass"). As Tali explains at length in ME2, settling on another world and eliminating their dependency on their suits would require a long process of bioengineering. Removing their dependency on their native plant life would require genetic modification - the kind which is both outlawed by the Council and, in all likelihood, unavailable in the aftermath of the Reaper war. Think of the difficulties of "scripting" a human being with no dependency on an external source of vitamin C to get some idea of the challenge that would be.

Rannoch is their single best shot for long-term survival as a species in the event that their fleet does not survive to come back for them - a very real possibility against Reapers. It's literally the only planet in the galaxy where taking the mask off and drawing in a lungful of unfiltered air won't kill them. They won't last long if they're all dumped off on some airless moon (or moons), especially with the relays gone.

I'll have to dig up Han's earlier post and address it, too, when I get a chance.

[SmilesJA]

Nah the Quarians did not deserve to die, despite the fact they jumped the gun and attempted to take over their planet in ME3.

[KaiserShep]

If anything, the quarians' major drawback in their plan was that they didn't implement it sooner, likely because the weapon Xen had developed as follow-up of Rael'Zorah's research wasn't ready yet. Had the reaper invasion been delayed just a little longer, the quarians would probably have been victorious.

[Livi14]

Dekuuna is the Elcor homeworld. The planet the Quarians tried to settle on was called Ekuna, which does have higher gravity better suited for the Elcor.

 

Though I'm not exactly sure how that's the Council's business, seeing as how Ekuna is:

 

1. In the Terminus systems away from council space

 

2. Was first settled by the Quarians, who don't(or shouldn't) answer to Citadel authority, and not by a race that does.

 

The Phoenix Massing cluster (containing Ekuna) was once part of Council space. Over the years the Council has relinquished or otherwise let go of the various systems and planets in Phoenix Massing. I think Ekuna is the only world they retained control of. It's in the planetary description for Aite.

[ZipZap2000]

Geth, Quarian what's the dif. Blinking lights, distorted voices and broken logic everywhere.

 

Quarian: Let's kill them for asking questions.

 

Geth: Hey they tried to kill us for asking questions. Let's ask them why.

 

Quarian: Shoot it.

 

Geth: They tried to kill us again! Seriously why do you keep doing that?

 

Qaurian: Shoot it again.

 

Geth: Kill all Quarians.

 

Quarian: The Geth are fighting back! Who could have foresaw such a thing?!

 

Geth: Oh, look! A Reaper! Let's follow a Turian to the Citadel.

[Livi14]

The description doesn't say that the Council owned it before the Quarians arrived, just that it was part of Citadel space during it's first wave of colonization(of the Elcor), which means after they pushed the Quarians out with the threat of orbital bombardment, not before.

As far as I understand it the quarians discovered Ekuna, but not the Phoenix Massing cluster. The Phoenix cluster was citadel space and the quarians were arrogant enough to start colonizing Ekuna without permission. But they knew the concil considered it citadel space, that's why they decided to inform them after a while.

[Perpetual Nirvana]

I especially loved the "It must be because you're an anti-synthetic racist!" vibe they injected for Shepards who don't side with the Geth.

EDIT: ...oh, right.

 

As I've said before, the problem is they removed the shades of grey from ME3 and just made everything black and white. See the genophage where the only advocate is a shrill racist.

 

And by the by, everything about the Reaper code just contridicts what Legion says about the Geth determining their own fate in ME2. The whole thing is just a mess.

[Farangbaa]

And by the by, everything about the Reaper code just contridicts what Legion says about the Geth determining their own fate in ME2. The whole thing is just a mess.

 

As before, self preservation takes precedence here. Without uploading the Code the Quarians will destroy all Geth. Even if you achieve peace, the upload of the code is necessary to make sure the Quarians stand down; Shep threatens they will be annihilated by the Geth if they don't cease fire. Then, and only then, do the Quarians back down.

 

If they don't upload the code, the Geth are a dead species. 

 

Sure, Shep could've lied about the Reaper code being uploaded to make the Quarians stop, but that's not an option in the game.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

As far as I understand it the quarians discovered Ekuna, but not the Phoenix Massing cluster. The Phoenix cluster was citadel space and the quarians were arrogant enough to start colonizing Ekuna without permission. But they knew the concil considered it citadel space, that's why they decided to inform them after a while.

 

And they couldn't have any filthy Quarians colonizing a world inside Citadel space! After all they created the Geth. The race had to be condemned to die in their ships.

 

If those ships had more than 80 years left in them, like say several hundred years of life left in them I would have told the Council to get bent fighting the reapers and gone off the grid.

 

Or waited for them to finish harvesting the Turians and colonized one of their worlds.

[Oni Changas]

Why kill one over the other? I keep both and wipe the galaxy clean of reaper tech afterwards.

[Oni Changas]

As before, self preservation takes precedence here. Without uploading the Code the Quarians will destroy all Geth. Even if you achieve peace, the upload of the code is necessary to make sure the Quarians stand down; Shep threatens they will be annihilated by the Geth if they don't cease fire. Then, and only then, do the Quarians back down.

If they don't upload the code, the Geth are a dead species.

Sure, Shep could've lied about the Reaper code being uploaded to make the Quarians stop, but that's not an option in the game.

Dead species? More like destroyed robots. I fully support the Quarians breaking their foot out of geth ass and trashing the lights of teir homeworld occupiers, but if given a chance would preserve both and preferably without reaper tech.