the geth aren't enslaved, they have been re-written by the Reapers, they can't rise up against them, they are programmed tools of the Reapers now
Which can be turned back by killing the Reapers.
Regardless, extinction cannot be reversed. Anything is prefered over extinction.
Guest_Jesus Christ_*
As far as I understand it the quarians discovered Ekuna, but not the Phoenix Massing cluster. The Phoenix cluster was citadel space and the quarians were arrogant enough to start colonizing Ekuna without permission. But they knew the concil considered it citadel space, that's why they decided to inform them after a while.
In the planetary description of Aite that you refered to me.
"Like the rest of the Phoenix Massing cluster, Aite was briefly considered part of Citadel space during its first wave of colonization."
Aite and Ekuna are the only planets in the Phoenix Massing that has any colonial presence on it whatsoever(the rest are either gas giants, or simply not suited for life). Aite was founded in 2104, and Ekuna was founded at the turn of the Century(2100). This again tells me that the rest of the Phoenix Massing cluster was only part of Citadel space as long of Ekuna alone was during Elcor colonization.
But yes, how dare those arrogant Quarians try to settle on a world that was uninhabited, don't they know that the Council's almighty word is so much more important than their needs for a planet!?
Which can be turned back by killing the Reapers.
Regardless, extinction cannot be reversed. Anything is prefered over extinction.
Well, if they wanted to surrender their free will to someone instead of using the huge number of ships and platforms they had to continue the fight, then why the Reapers?
Extinction was not guaranteed or even likely if they surrendered to the quarians. With the death of Rael'Zorah, Gerrel was the only member of the Admiralty board who wanted to wipe them out. Tali and Koris were sympathetic to the geth, and I'm inclined to belive that Raan is too, if to a lesser extent, judging by some of her comments and her fair treatment of Legion/ Geth VI (do a playthrough without Tali if you want to hear more from her). Then there is Xen, who is diametrically opposed to destroying the geth. Her reason for supporting the war was to regain control of them. A technophile, she described Gerrel as an "aging warship" for his luddite disposition toward the geth, and if you talk to her after the Dreadnought mission she seems to be even less fond of him.
If the geth had sent out intent for unconditional surrender to the quarians, the decision would have went to the Admiralty board and Gerrel would have been outvoted 4-1. Sure, they would have relinquished control of themselves to the quarians, but how is that worse than doing the exact same thing for the Reapers? Their whole plan for survival by enthralling themselves to the Reapers was presumably some faint hope that the organics would somehow prevail in the war. Given the geth propensity for logical calculation, they must have known that this has a 0% chance of happening if they go by past cycles, and they are further reducing this chance by making themselves footsoldiers in the Reaper armies. The Reapers don't harvest synthetic civilizations, they destroy them, so the geth were essentially dooming themselves with almost absolute certainty by making this decision. The quarians by contrast had absolutely no incentive to destroy them once they regained control, and all the incentive in the world to ensure their survival. Even Gerrel could probably be convinced that billions of loyal, fearless footsoldiers who don't need supply lines to fight the Reapers is absolutely a good thing.
This all ignores an even simpler solution for the geth, though. They could have just FLED, just as the quarians did 3 centuries earlier. It would have been even easier for them, as they already live in server hubs on starships and space stations, not even using the planets they appropriated from the quarians except as a memorial. It's not like the quarians, who actually have a reason for wanting Rannoch. They specifically need Rannoch due to their biology not functioning properly anywhere else. The geth could live in any number of uninhabited systems, drawing resources from any number of countless planets. The quarians wouldn't have the manpower or resources in the short term to chase after them even if they were hell bent on killing/regaining control of them, especially not with the Reapers threatening to wipe them out.
The decision makes absolutely no sense even as a last resort, which it totally wasn't. The geth had much simpler options that were ignored because the plot required it.
Stopped reading after 'surrender to the Quarians'. These people are willing to kill one of their own admirals as soon as a dreadnought's barriers go down.
There is no option of surrender for the Geth, only be annihilated or annihilate unless Shepard steps in.
Hell, the Quarians only stop if you choose to have them destroyed or threaten them the Geth will destroy them if they don't surrender.
'When the creators have believed victory is possible, they have attacked us 100% of the time'
There is not a single instance in the entire trilogy that disproves this statement by Legion.
Right, so lets ignore logic like the game storyline does, ok.
Attack=/= make extinct. Very few earth wars result in the extinction of an entire nation/ ethnicity, and one of the Admrials' specific reason for going to war is to regain control of the geth, which presumably can't be done if they are all killed, while 2 of them absolutely don't want to kill any geth at all.
Even if every quarian but Gerrel is lying every time they open their mouth, and they all want to actually kill all geth for seemingly no reason, that still doesn't address why the geth didn't even consider the option of just going somewhere else. Worked out okay for the quarians.
Furthermore, by "these people" do you mean Gerrel, who is acknowledged as a blithering idiot for this action by the other admrials immediately after his stupid decision, and purposefully characterized as a pantomime villian in ME3 anyway? Unless you think he can take out the numerically superior by 1000:1 geth by himself without Xen's weapon, he's not going to be able to do anything but sit there and fume if the geth ask for surrender.
I don't think the quarians deserve death, but I think they are more in the wrong than the geth. The quarians tried and tried to commit genocide on the geth, and to me that is more of a no-no than the geth defending themselves
Peace is my choice. Then I choose control in my paragon playthroughs to make sure I don't do what I stopped the quarians from doing and to give the peace a chance. If Im a renegade, I choose destroy to make sure that there will never be another uprising
Right, so lets ignore logic like the game storyline does, ok.
Attack=/= make extinct. Very few earth wars result in the extinction of an entire nation/ ethnicity, and one of the Admrials' specific reason for going to war is to regain control of the geth, which presumably can't be done if they are all killed, while 2 of them absolutely don't want to kill any geth at all.
Even if every quarian but Gerrel is lying every time they open their mouth, and they all want to actually kill all geth for seemingly no reason, that still doesn't address why the geth didn't even consider the option of just going somewhere else. Worked out okay for the quarians.
Moving somewhere else like.. that Dyson Sphere the Quarians destroyed, you mean?
Moving somewhere else like.. that Dyson Sphere the Quarians destroyed, you mean?
You have to be intentionally trolling at this point. The structure was a stationary target of military significance positioned in the space that the quarians were attacking, and it was a surprise attack to boot so the geth had not prepared to defend it properly.
Even if they want to. How are 17 million quarians in 50,000 ships going to chase billions of geth in millions of ships all around the galaxy and exterminate them while they have to simultaneously deal with the reapers and resettling their own planet at the same time?
Xen wanted to enslave the billions of Geth.
But surrendering to the Quarians is far more logical than allying with the Reapers. Sure. That makes since.
You have to be intentionally trolling at this point. The structure was a stationary target of military significance positioned in the space that the quarians were attacking, and it was a surprise attack to boot so the geth had not prepared to defend it properly.
How does any of this defend the Quarians destroying it? The Geth had done nothing to the Quarians for three hundred years, and then the Quarians do the equivalent of nuking the entire Atlantic seaboard in a surprise attack.
A case of dumb and dumber. The Quarians attack the Geth while the reapers invade the galaxy. And the Geth wanted to say 'Yes master' to the reapers. Save the Quarians and destroy the machines. Simple.
I for one told him to press the attack on the dreadnought. Retreat via relay (the only alternative Shepard can voice) was never a viable option. ME3's own codex states that the Migrant Fleet takes days to pass through a relay. Do we expect the Dreadnought to stay disabled to accomodate an evacuation? They've already recovered by the time we get from the Dreadnought to the Normandy. If the fleet exposed itself to flock to the relay per Shepard's suggestion, the Geth would have slaughtered them as soon as the backup signal came online; if they did succeed in leaving, the relay would serve as a perfect chokepoint to deter any later attempts to take back the system with the Geth left under permanent Reaper control.Stopped reading after 'surrender to the Quarians'. These people are willing to kill one of their own admirals as soon as a dreadnought's barriers go down.
The Geth could, you know, try talking for once in their entire history. It's not like they don't know how.There is no option of surrender for the Geth, only be annihilated or annihilate unless Shepard steps in.
Hell, the Quarians only stop if you choose to have them destroyed or threaten them the Geth will destroy them if they don't surrender.
Doesn't preclude the Geth pressing the offensive when the Quarians were combat-ineffective. "Cleanup crews. The Geth never learned to leave survivors."'When the creators have believed victory is possible, they have attacked us 100% of the time'
There is not a single instance in the entire trilogy that disproves this statement by Legion.
We see the entire combined galatic fleet pass a relay in seconds.
Had the Quarians not attacked there'd be nothing they'd have no time to flee from.
Needing a place to stay for their civilians (which I know is coming next) is bull. For all I care, they park their civilian fleet on an uninhabited planet if they need a place to drop them off so the military fleet can join the Reaper war. Rannoch is not a necessity. They could even let their civilian fleet just float around somewhere between systems where they'd be relatively safe. Rannoch is not a necessity. It's not like they have to live on that planet or in between systems indefinetly. If the galaxy loses, it's irrelevant where they are, if the galaxy wins, Rannoch can be discussed.
All in all, had they not attacked, Shepard and the galaxy would have had 2 full strength fleets for the war, instead of 1 or 2 fleets that have just come out of a war.
We see the entire combined galatic fleet pass a relay in seconds.
Had the Quarians not attacked there'd be nothing they'd have no time to flee from.
Needing a place to stay for their civilians (which I know is coming next) is bull. For all I care, they park their civilian fleet on an uninhabited planet if they need a place to drop them off so the military fleet can join the Reaper war. Rannoch is not a necessity. They could even let their civilian fleet just float around somewhere between systems where they'd be relatively safe. Rannoch is not a necessity. It's not like they have to live on that planet or in between systems indefinetly. If the galaxy loses, it's irrelevant where they are, if the galaxy wins, Rannoch can be discussed.
All in all, had they not attacked, Shepard and the galaxy would have had 2 full strength fleets for the war, instead of 1 or 2 fleets that have just come out of a war.
The military fleet though is reliant on daily deliveries from the Liveships. The two can't be separated for even short periods of time.
The military fleet though is reliant on daily deliveries from the Liveships. The two can't be separated for even short periods of time.
So that's why they need to be on Rannoch.
Makes perfect sense.
C'mon man.
This is such a ridiculous point. They've been at war with the Geth for a week or two (17 days is in my head somewhere, not sure), without being on Rannoch, and they can support their fleet just fine. Whatever they've been doing in the Geth war they could do in the war with the Reapers. Where all they have to do is fly to earth and their civilian fleets can chill out somewhere.
Rannoch is unnecessary in every way. The Quarian fleet is self sustaining and we don't need it to fight a prolonged war with the Reapers and they don't have to themselves either because they don't have a planet to defend. Their entire fleet could be spared for the final push, in which we either win with our ammased fleets or we lose and nothing matters anymore. The Quarians not only break down their own fleet in attacking the Geth, they also drive a potential ally straight into the Reapers arms, hurting another fleet that could be used to attack the Reapers in the process.
All this to house civilians which don't need a place to stay, because they are not at war with the Reapers.
Rannoch also wouldn't produce anything of use in any reasonable time. Housing the civilians there is more a burden than a plus. The decision to take Rannoch before the Reapers instead of after is beyond me.
Not even mentioning that if the Quarians hadn't attacked, the Reapers would have to attack the Geth too. Now they get a Reaper puppet army to fight.
So they are supposed top hang back, do nothing, and hope the Reapers don't find them?
When the final push comes where do they put civilians?
Yeah, I rolled my eyes when that happened. It was a blatant instance where "rule of cool" trumped lore. See also "thanix missiles" when the Thanix system consists of liquid metal accelerated to relativistic velocities and the Cain's projectile honing in on its target like a moth circling a lamp when it's described as essentially being a very big, very fast bullet. If you're OK with things like that, nothing I say will change your mind.We see the entire combined galatic fleet pass a relay in seconds.
Except, y'know, Reapers, the second a couple of them turned up in whatever system they happen to be in. You're managing logistics for a flotilla of fifty thousand ships. If you're in the middle of food distribution, a drive-core discharge rota, or mining, refining, and distributing fuel from a gas giant (the kinds of stops which are absolutely unavoidable), you're not exactly in a position to pack up and go in the space of time it takes for them to pick a target and shoot. There's any of a hundred ways to get caught with your pants down, and if you lose a liveship (or a HE3 scoop, or a refinery ship, or...) you're screwed.Had the Quarians not attacked there'd be nothing they'd have no time to flee from.
I can already tell this'll be an entertaining rant...Needing a place to stay for their civilians (which I know is coming next) is bull.
Dump them on some airless moon? Not survivable, especially in the event the fleet doesn't come back for them (which incidentally happens even if we win thanks to the destruction of the relay network). The whole idea is giving their species a shot at surviving the war while making their ships available to fight it. Disregarding their needs does them no favors.For all I care, they park their civilian fleet on an uninhabited planet if they need a place to drop them off so the military fleet can join the Reaper war.
Stop thinking purely in terms of shooters. Hackett specifically needs them as cargo transport. Logistics. The cruisers and destroyers are nice, but what they really need are the cargo holds which the Quarians currently have partitioned into living space across the civilian fleet. Before they can carry companies of Turian soldiers, levo food for Krogan fighting on Palaven, or raw materials for the Crucible project, the civvies (and the metal cubicles they live in) need to be cleared out.Rannoch is not a necessity. They could even let their civilian fleet just float around somewhere between systems where they'd be relatively safe. Rannoch is not a necessity. It's not like they have to live on that planet or in between systems indefinetly. If the galaxy loses, it's irrelevant where they are, if the galaxy wins, Rannoch can be discussed.
No, you would not have two full-strength fleets. You got no commitments from the Geth (who severed communication with their only outside contact after the Reapers invaded and before the Quarians did), and the other is severely limited in both utility and mobility so long as it's weighed down with civilians. This is not difficult to grasp.All in all, had they not attacked, Shepard and the galaxy would have had 2 full strength fleets for the war, instead of 1 or 2 fleets that have just come out of a war.
The Geth could've built their sphere in the system where Legions loyalty mission took place. No one would bother them there.
There's no star there to build a sphere around, though one has to wonder how they're on death's doorstep when ME2 established that they have significant holdings in the space between stars.The Geth could've built their sphere in the system where Legions loyalty mission took place. No one would bother them there.
There's no star there to build a sphere around, though one has to wonder how they're on death's doorstep when ME2 established that they have significant holdings in the space between stars.
Their best choice for placing a sphere would likely be a young star system where planets have yet to accumulate. Lots and lots of raw resources in easily-harvestable form, not buried in the cores of big, solid planets. Need to take care that that same rubble doesn't clobber the superstructure, but that's what kinetic barriers are for.
There really are no kinetic barriers in the MEU that would be strong enough to block any moderately sized asteroid.
Take a 20 meter wide asteroid and have it run into a Reaper at its typical speed and it would likely destroy it.
Yeah... probably. Come to think of it, Sovereign ought to have been destroyed when it bashed into that Turian cruiser en rout to the Citadel Tower in ME1. Similar amount of force at work.There really are no kinetic barriers in the MEU that would be strong enough to block any moderately sized asteroid.
Take a 20 meter wide asteroid and have it run into a Reaper at its typical speed and it would likely destroy it.
Yeah... probably. Come to think of it, Sovereign ought to have been destroyed when it bashed into that Turian cruiser en rout to the Citadel Tower in ME1. Similar amount of force at work.
Sovereign really should've been destroyed by that. He was going probably around 10-30 kilometers per second, and weighs so much that it would've been close to a double/triple digit megaton bomb.
Rule of cool, I guess. Though it could be inferred that he was using his eezo core to drastically reduce his mass to enable maneuvers he made in the battle, and the Turian cruiser was as well, added to the fact that the cruiser had no acceleration in his direction. Though that is highly unlikely and still unsupported.
Don't get me going on the Cain. Lore goes out the window. 5 km/sec. Yet the round travels slower than a missile. You should be able to fire it and it should be and instant hit. However, the Terminator can dodge it.
Rounds from your guns travel slower than chemical round bullets.
Lore in the Mass Effect Universe is a zany free-for-all. If the writers don't take their own lore seriously why should we take it seriously? The story is full of plot holes and ass pulls.
Sovereign should have been destroyed when it rammed the Turian ship. Or at minimum suffered severe damage. But it came through unscathed. Rule of cool.
Lore in the Mass Effect Universe is a zany free-for-all.
Words of wisdom, indeed! 
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