30 réponses à ce sujet

[Chron0id]

You know what needs to NOT happen in Dragon Age Inquisition?  Those instances in a cutscene where you could make a dialogue choice and when you made said choice, the same action or response would occur no matter which choice you made.  It happened many times in DA 2 and I hated it. I like to call these instances....

 

Navigating a Troll's Estuary or NATE for short. 

 

See, when one follows the rivers and streams of an estuary, they naturally lead out into an open body of water to endless possiblities.  But, the troll is devious.  He tricks you into following many different rivers and meanderings and coaxes you into chasing after that open sea when in reality: They all lead to only one conclusion-a brick wall.  I really, really hope BioWare stops baiting and switching with the conversation wheel this time around.  At least for some of the cutscenes. 

 

[Kantr]

Been awhile since I played DA:2 do you have any examples?

[CIA]

Sorry, that's the way Mass Effect 1-3 handled it and it's how every Bioware game from now-on will handle it, I suspect. The wheel is more to design your character, rather than to affect events.

[addiction21]

Been awhile since I played DA:2 do you have any examples?

 

There are plenty just like there are plenty in DAO and previous games.  The majority of conversations (nothing to do with the dialogue wheel ) end up in the same place. The choices are to add "flavor" to your character.

 

 

[Chron0id]

Been awhile since I played DA:2 do you have any examples?

When you confront that crazed elf who steals the Saar-qamek.  In one of the conversation options, you get to choose between three different responses, each having their own tone and attitude.  But the elf says the EXACT. SAME. THING. no matter which option you choose.  There is literally zero point in having a conversation wheel if the NPCs aren't even going to react to how you speak to them.  You can't add flavors to characters when that character exists in a vaccum devoid of all reaction.  It just comes across as pointless and lame. 

[TheChosenOne]

When you confront that crazed elf who steals the Saar-qamek.  In one of the conversation options, you get to choose between three different responses, each having their own tone and attitude.  But the elf says the EXACT. SAME. THING. no matter which option you choose.  There is literally zero point in having a conversation wheel if the NPCs aren't even going to react to how you speak to them.  You can't add flavors to characters when that character exists in a vaccum devoid of all reaction.  It just comes across as pointless and lame. 

That was the past. DA:I will be different 

[addiction21]

When you confront that crazed elf who steals the Saar-qamek.  In one of the conversation options, you get to choose between three different responses, each having their own tone and attitude.  But the elf says the EXACT. SAME. THING. no matter which option you choose.  There is literally zero point in having a conversation wheel if the NPCs aren't even going to react to how you speak to them.  You can't add flavors to characters when that character exists in a vaccum devoid of all reaction.  It just comes across as pointless and lame. 

 

Because its not about the NPC's reaction that is why it is a NPC you are not in control of them or building that characters identity. Your example fall flat on its face because they were going to do it no matter what it only matters how you approached it because that's called character building.

 

This is not a uncommon thing and certainly not unique to the wheel or DA2.
 

[Chron0id]

Because its not about the NPC's reaction that is why it is a NPC you are not in control of them or building that characters identity. Your example fall flat on its face because they were going to do it no matter what it only matters how you approached it because that's called character building.

 

This is not a uncommon thing and certainly not unique to the wheel or DA2.
 

Nope.  You're missing my point. 
Let's use Evelina in that mission Meredith gives you in Act 3 of DA 2 as an example of what I'm talking about.

 

When you confront Evelina in the sewers, you can choose between being a "Paragon", humorous, or stern.  The beautiful part about this mission is that she REACTS different depending on which option you choose.  YES, she still attacks you no matter what, but if you'll notice, she says something different with each respective choice.  That's what I want.  What I don't want to see is NPCs saying the exact same thing because that would make the conversation wheel (which could be considered one of the primary points of engagement for the player in the Dragon Age series) defunct. 

[addiction21]

I get your point I just don't see what it has to do with the wheel since NPC's giving the same response to multiple choices has been around forever.

 

You want a unique response to each dialogue choice and that's fine but stop dressing it up as something else.

 

Of course knowing all options lead to the same response is metagaming and the dialogue options are there to build the PC not dictate the NPC's reaction.

[PsychoBlonde]

There were several places in Mass Effect where you had two conversation options and SHEPARD would say exactly the same thing regardless of which you picked.  Fortunately they at least seem to have replaced this silliness with just giving you a "go on" button to click instead of pretending that it actually matters what you click.

[Puppy Love]

Plus let's not forget that how you respond effects how your companions think of you.

[powerXmad]

DAO didn't have this problem and i completely agree. They should respond differently for different things you say. I will also add that they should say what you tell them to say. I hate when you chose a dialogue option only to have hawke say something completely different. I chose the i will kill them for this option and hawke said we won't let them get away. Not exactly the same meaning.

[phantomrachie]

DAO didn't have this problem and i completely agree. 

 

Yes, yes it did. Although I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem as it works in some cases. DA:O provided you with a list of dialogue options to choose from and generally the characters responded in the same way regardless of what option you choose.

 

The dialogue choice was there to allow you to reflect your characters personality and either gain or lose approval with companions. 

 

Your choices being in a list or wheel format doesn't change this.

[Leliana-is-dead]

I think the real problem is with a system like Paragon/Renegade or Snarky/dimplomatic/dickhead you always default towards one option. this was especially a problem in Mass effect 2 where if you wanted to keep some people alive you had to just mindlessly default towards paragon or renegade rather then "build a character". having the good/neutral/evil options being in all the same places means you may as well just have non interactive cutscenes. And since being Evil never actually gives you much a incentive to balance out being everyone's super best friend there's little actual roleplay involved.

[TurretSyndrome]

1) Dialogue choices should not define my choices in action. I should be able to chose how I act even after I made a dialogue choice that contradicts my action.

2) Varying dialogue should be present 90% of the time. I don't want two or three choices taking up slots which say the exact same thing, just in a different way. I want to be able to speak two completely different things at all times. 

 

As long as these two conditions are met in-game, I'm good. As for choices drawing the exact same response from an NPC being pointless, I disagree. The reason we have different dialogue choices is so that we can role-play. There is no rule for every dialogue choice we make to have a different response all the time from the NPC we speak to. It'd be nice to have different reactions for the choices we make, but sometimes you just can't stop someone from replying the exact same way or doing the exact same thing despite the difference in your choices/actions. Expecting something like that is just unrealistic.

[Who Knows]

Personally, I really dislike when there are multiple choices that lead to the exact same player dialog, or response. ME1 and DA:O both did this a lot.

[tmp7704]

Personally, I really dislike when there are multiple choices that lead to the exact same player dialog, or response. ME1 and DA:O both did this a lot.

The realistic alternative to that are large swathes of auto dialogue where your character and the NPC just chat without your input, with lines you may find 'out of (your) character'. Would you prefer that?

[CIA]

The realistic alternative to that are large swathes of auto dialogue where your character and the NPC just chat without your input, with lines you may find 'out of (your) character'. Would you prefer that?

That's what it was in ME3 IIRC

[SardaukarElite]

The realistic alternative to that are large swathes of auto dialogue where your character and the NPC just chat without your input, with lines you may find 'out of (your) character'. Would you prefer that?

 

You could have less dialogue. I wouldn't object to the BioWare version of Drive.

[Who Knows]

The realistic alternative to that are large swathes of auto dialogue where your character and the NPC just chat without your input, with lines you may find 'out of (your) character'. Would you prefer that?

I don't think that "large swathes" are the only alternative.

I don't have a problem with all auto dialog. Auto dialog that is fairly neutral and used to just drive the conversation forward seem fine. I was personally okay with most of ME3's auto dialog - except in some cases like where Shepard responded to Joker's joke so dramatically.

 

What they did with ME1 was pointless. The dialog options were labeled differently, but Shepard said the exact same thing and was responded to in the same way. This is basically the worst way they could do it.

I'm not opposed to auto dialog necessarily. What I really dislike is being given "different" dialog options that yield the exact same result, in terms of what the player character says and/or the response to it.

 

[dekarserverbot]

Yes, yes it did. Although I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem as it works in some cases. DA:O provided you with a list of dialogue options to choose from and generally the characters responded in the same way regardless of what option you choose.

 

The dialogue choice was there to allow you to reflect your characters personality and either gain or lose approval with companions. 

 

Your choices being in a list or wheel format doesn't change this.

 

It only happened in companions camp talks, Lelliana's stories and Orzammar, not at the entire game... in the rest of the game characters answered completely different with each option and they were fully voiced. If you acted hostile towards the king it was reflected by both Duncan and Cailan. Hell i can remember that when i ditched Lelianna at her dalish song she started singing and her face reflected anger all the time, plus when she ended she delivered a mean looking towards me and shaked their head. Contrary to "justice" in Dragon age 2, when useless hawke said "is this a benevolent spirit doing?" that imposter bisexual plotholish emo ****** of "anders" just ignored me... so did justice. Justice heard the warden commander all the time, but ignored Hawke as all Thedas did, they only wanted Hawke to be a "psychologist" or a "problem solvent" but never cared about her own feelings, likes or thinking.

[phantomrachie]

It only happened in companions camp talks, Lelliana's stories and Orzammar, not at the entire game... in the rest of the game characters answered completely different with each option and they were fully voiced. If you acted hostile towards the king it was reflected by both Duncan and Cailan. Hell i can remember that when i ditched Lelianna at her dalish song she started singing and her face reflected anger all the time, plus when she ended she delivered a mean looking towards me and shaked their head. Contrary to "justice" in Dragon age 2, when useless hawke said "is this a benevolent spirit doing?" that imposter bisexual plotholish emo ****** of "anders" just ignored me... so did justice. Justice heard the warden commander all the time, but ignored Hawke as all Thedas did, they only wanted Hawke to be a "psychologist" or a "problem solvent" but never cared about her own feelings, likes or thinking.

 

Not really, it happens occasionally with 1 chosen line. Any line other than the hostile line to Cailan and you get pretty much the same response from him.

 

It happens occasionally in DA2 as well, Aveline responses differently depending on your choice in some conversations too.  

 

I like when it happens, it keeps things interesting but to claim it is something that happens in DA:O and DA2 it untrue.

[Chron0id]

I get your point I just don't see what it has to do with the wheel since NPC's giving the same response to multiple choices has been around forever.

 

You want a unique response to each dialogue choice and that's fine but stop dressing it up as something else.

 

Of course knowing all options lead to the same response is metagaming and the dialogue options are there to build the PC not dictate the NPC's reaction.

I don't recall it being this problematic with games like KOTOR which were sans the conversation wheel.  But you make a fair point.  I think I misplaced the blame on the wheel instead of putting it on the NPCs dialogue and reactions.  I'm not quite sure what you mean by dressing it up as something else though.  I don't think I'm doing any such thing.

[dekarserverbot]

Not really, it happens occasionally with 1 chosen line. Any line other than the hostile line to Cailan and you get pretty much the same response from him.

 

Ok imagine the next answer could either be one of these:

 

1.- I use extra examples to show you that it only happened in orzammar and with the looney hermit in forest while the entire next game dialogue changed a lot with each other option (and also counting the failed attempts at persuasion and intimidation).

2.- I agree with you that Dragon Age was a total bullshit where dialogues have no matter at all and in some STRANGE cases they did, plus also pointing number one

3.- I just say that your face is ugly and your mother did porn movies with barn animals.

 

The two first will bring me the same answer from you, while the third one will make you to report me. THAT was what used to happen in DAO but NEVER happened in DA2