I don't think mana should have regenerated either.I don't think it would have mattered much in DA:O since we had a ton of healing spells and mana regenerated. All that health regeneration did in that game was save us a few seconds so we didn't have to cast "heal" after every combat.
I don't think mana should have regenerated either.
And with the original potion design, where they became less effective the more you used them, that would have been terrific.
Oh, I see... so no health regen plus other restrictions... basically what we're going to have in DA:I, but with the removal of mana regen rather than healing spells. We'll see how that turns out.
As for the idea of diminishing returns on mana potions, that does sound interesting. It's a shame they never figured out how to implement it. Did anyone ever attempt this in a mod? Sounds like something people might have tried, considering other "realism" mods or general tweaks to game mechanics...
As long you get DA:I on PC (even a junk PC is better than *any* console for these types of games anyways) there will be no real issues with "no health regain" since there will be mods down the road. And for any "day one issues" simply get "Cheat Engine" (Goggle it up).
DAO regeneration was ok in theory because it had the concept of injury. If someone takes a lot of damage, he will be injured and have a penalty in combat. The problem is that the negative effect was negligible, it was very easy to heal them (potions were abundant, spirit healer aura), so they didn't matter.
I'd prefer a very penalizing injury system (like injured legs means 70% combat slow, injured head means 50% spell failure, these kind of effects), to no regen out of combat.
What I really dislike about DAI is the combat rez. I have a bad experience with games that allow this. I don't think that there will be anything stopping me from using a rogue to rez members all the time. If the death isn't penalizing like I described, then it will be like DoW II, ME3 as infiltrator etc. Cheap. I understand why it's good for multiplayer, but it shouldn't exist in single player as well. I'm 100% sure it will be exploitable and will break the game.
I hope there will be a Spirit Healer tree with Group Heal and all those other goodies so I can play as a mage healer, or have one of my team members specialize as one. I never did like to rely on potions, always thought of those as secondary things only to be used 'if absolutely needed'.
I hope there will be a Spirit Healer tree with Group Heal and all those other goodies so I can play as a mage healer, or have one of my team members specialize as one. I never did like to rely on potions, always thought of those as secondary things only to be used 'if absolutely needed'.
Same here. It seems that this sort of thing has fallen out of favour with Bioware. I hope that they don't follow through with a 'Healing Nerf'.
Sadly it looks like we're falling into item dependency. 
I hate item dependance. Items should be for emergencies not a necessary battle mechanic.
Sadly it looks like we're falling into item dependency.
I wouldn't get too dependent if I were you. Based on the videos, we only get about 8 to start and it seems to max out around 10 if we acquire certain Inquisition perks. And I highly doubt that enemies drop them during the course of our missions... if we're extremely lucky we might occasionally find 1 in locked and heavily guarded chest, but probably not. They seem very serious about forcing us to use magic buffs and active blocking/dodging.
Problem is you can't make your companions roll as well as you, I like action where active dodging and stuff helps, but with party members just standing there taking hits... it just sounds annoying and blech...
Problem is you can't make your companions roll as well as you, I like action where active dodging and stuff helps, but with party members just standing there taking hits... it just sounds annoying and blech...
Yeah... no matter how good we are at controlling the PC and keeping them from taking damage, we're going to wind up micro-managing like crazy to ensure that the same is true for the rest of the party. I'm sure there will be a way to get around this, even though I expect it to include a lot of tedious backtracking to avoid spending money on potions. Or at least I assume that backtracking to a city or Skyhold will restore all of our health... now that I think about it, that isn't necessarily true.
I think that DA:I will heavily favor ranged parties that make good use of kiting... from what I've seen, even the Barrier spell is very complicated, not just an aim and fire ability. It's like an AoE centered on the caster, and it only effects party members who are very close... I dunno... It'll take some time to adjust to this.
If you couldn't tell, I'm not enthusiastic about these changes at all.
Sounds annoying. Hopefully lowest difficulty will make this a non factor if I'm in a for the story mood. Which is sad, I like active dodging and stuff. Personal skill is great, just it fails with a party, you can't really combine the two.
The automatically regenerating health was one of the worst parts of DAO. It was part of BioWare's explicit focus on tactical play over strategic play, and it was a terrible idea.
I am overjoyed that they are undoing that decision.
Ditto. Automatically regenerating health means that every single fight HAS to be a material threat to your ENTIRE party. Everything that happened in the encounter is instantly erased, there's no carryover. It's both boring AND annoying. Genuine attrition also allows for fights that are genuine speed bumps that you can coast right over--they aren't a threat in the sense that you might get a game over, but they might deplete some of your resources that you'd like to have later on. Everything doesn't have to be scaled up to your level (or down to your level, for that matter). And, likewise, if you never do encounter a material threat, well, you still have a few spent resources to recover to show that you expended some effort.
Interestingly, the Vancian magic system also largely borked up strategic play, because the extreme degree of limitation enforced a degenerate resting mechanic on casters. If a fight was a material threat, you'd probably use up nearly all of your effective spells and NEED to rest immediately after. If it WASN'T a material threat, why in the world would you waste your spells on it? That and individual spells could vary wildly between an instant "I win everything" button to totally useless--often the same spell in different circumstances. Add in the DM rolling random encounters when you attempt to rest and what you have is not an exercise in strategy but more one of sadomasochism.
And because of the elimination of this enforced scaling, the game can have self-scaling. Finding an area too hard? Go back to an earlier one and hunt some more animals and scrounge up more crafting ingredients. Now you have more xp, better gear, and more resources, so the new area is actually *easier*--the game difficulty becomes self-adjusting. (Ideally the level/resource cap would be such that all the non-optional parts of the game could be "leveled past" in this way--or it could provide a radically more challenging experience for someone who charged right at the end.)
People are just assuming way too much. So you love healing because it's a "get out of combat free" card, because you hate combat because the combat is boring? Well what if they actually made fun combat for once? Doesn't that kind of topple this whole chain of assumptions? And what about that other assumption that everybody keeps making, that "not my exact perfect favorite thing EVARR" = "total crap can't be enjoyed on any level if I even have to look at it I will commit seppuku". Not to mention the claims of the always-popular self-appointed Consumer Prophets who declare that "this change will ****** A LOT of people off". Did you conduct a poll? Or you can't tell the difference between yourself and "a lot of people"? "I play for the story". Nobody plays a game exclusively for the story. The story may be the game feature that is of primary interest to them (it is to me, otherwise I wouldn't have put up with the tedious combat in the first two games), but if it was the ONLY feature you were interested in, you wouldn't be playing games, you'd be reading books. And you wouldn't be complaining about gameplay on the forum, either, you'd be asking for a novelization or trying to line up people to play it for you so you could watch.
If you refuse to even attempt to enjoy things on their own terms but insist on bringing along a huge mountain of assumption baggage containing a massive itemized list of things you refuse to even ATTEMPT to enjoy, then yeah, you probably won't enjoy the game. And I also really don't care, because you made up your mind not to enjoy it before you even had a chance to play it. If your favorite restaurant gets rid of your favorite item, do you quit going there, or do you maybe try something else on the menu? And if you do leave, do you grasp the fact that the restaurant may actually be *better off* because their new menu appeals to a much broader range of customers who eat a dozen different dishes and want a restaurant with a more comprehensive menu?
Ditto. Automatically regenerating health means that every single fight HAS to be a material threat to your ENTIRE party. Everything that happened in the encounter is instantly erased, there's no carryover. It's both boring AND annoying. *snip*
Wrong (for me). DA:O was fine and I had both healer heavy and healer light parties. In DA:O I felt like I had both options. I get the feeling with DA:I that I won't.
To be honest, my first reaction to the removal of the healer archetype was "Nooo, ma healer, where did it go, Bioware u so mean!". But after a while, it actually made sense. Although the game may turn more frustrating as you might have to leave a dungeon midway to restock on potions and regenerate, having no healer means there will be a space in the party for a damage- or utlity-oriented mage, which, as some people have said, IS more proactive and engaging. I am a hardcore fan of healing, but let's face it - healing makes the game easier, forces you to take a healer in your party, and forces you to think less before the fight and focus more on just hack and slash. Not that I don't mind hack and slash, but it's nice to put some strategy in there.
At this point I'm not so much concerned about the lack of healers, because they ain't coming back anyway. I'm more concerned with having only 8 slots for active spells/talents/abilities etc. Like, seriously. I don't care how many spells console players have at hand. Just because they were able to fit only 8 slots on the consoles doesn't mean that there should be 8 on the PC. So far, everything is great BUT the PC interface. It's large, it's bulky, it's limited. That's bad. Please don't screw up PC gamers. The game is very good as it is, but please allow us to put at least 10 or 12 ability slots. I don't even NEED a default potion slot. What if I want my very first slot to be potions and even equipment?! I don't want to be restricted in my ability to modify and rearrange my ability/item slots in whatever way I want. Please give more freedom to PC gamers. Like, seriously.
To be honest, my first reaction to the removal of the healer archetype was "Nooo, ma healer, where did it go, Bioware u so mean!". But after a while, it actually made sense. Although the game may turn more frustrating as you might have to leave a dungeon midway to restock on potions and regenerate, having no healer means there will be a space in the party for a damage- or utlity-oriented mage, which, as some people have said, IS more proactive and engaging. I am a hardcore fan of healing, but let's face it - healing makes the game easier, forces you to take a healer in your party, and forces you to think less before the fight and focus more on just hack and slash. Not that I don't mind hack and slash, but it's nice to put some strategy in there.
At this point I'm not so much concerned about the lack of healers, because they ain't coming back anyway. I'm more concerned with having only 8 slots for active spells/talents/abilities etc. Like, seriously. I don't care how many spells console players have at hand. Just because they were able to fit only 8 slots on the consoles doesn't mean that there should be 8 on the PC. So far, everything is great BUT the PC interface. It's large, it's bulky, it's limited. That's bad. Please don't screw up PC gamers. The game is very good as it is, but please allow us to put at least 10 or 12 ability slots. I don't even NEED a default potion slot. What if I want my very first slot to be potions and even equipment?! I don't want to be restricted in my ability to modify and rearrange my ability/item slots in whatever way I want. Please give more freedom to PC gamers. Like, seriously.
I don't think this limitation can be legitimately blamed on consoles because in both DA:O and DA2, console players had access to all of their abilities, not just the 6 that were mapped to the controller. This seems to be more of a design choice similar to the potion restrictions and Focus-based healing... they just as easily could have used the old system that let all players have access to all of our powers but they chose not to for some reason. Consoles are an easy, familiar target, but I don't think they are to blame in this case.
I don't think this limitation can be legitimately blamed on consoles because in both DA:O and DA2, console players had access to all of their abilities, not just the 6 that were mapped to the controller. This seems to be more of a design choice similar to the potion restrictions and Focus-based healing... they just as easily could have used the old system that let all players have access to all of our powers but they chose not to for some reason. Consoles are an easy, familiar target, but I don't think they are to blame in this case.
Mhm, I understand. But still, this is not a restriction I am fond of. Our characters know and possess all of their skills regardless. They should be able to utilize them at all times. Or what? The game will be too easy? Come on, I get a nervous breakdown just looking at those 8 skills, I need to feel the psychological reassurance that I can have at least 12 spells fit in there! Just in case!
Mhm, I understand. But still, this is not a restriction I am fond of. Our characters know and possess all of their skills regardless. They should be able to utilize them at all times. Or what? The game will be too easy? Come on, I get a nervous breakdown just looking at those 8 skills, I need to feel the psychological reassurance that I can have at least 12 spells fit in there! Just in case!
lol 
Oh, I agree completely... I can't understand a mage forgetting or refusing to use certain spells, or a warrior temporarily not being able to remember how to pull out their war horn and use Rally (I think that's the one with the horn). This system is far too similar to Kingdoms of Amalur for my liking... in that game, you wound up wasting points on a large number of skills due to the leveling system, but you could not access most of them without going into the menu to swap them for something you already had mapped. In DA:I, we don't even have that much freedom... whatever we have mapped going into combat is locked in until combat ends. The only "positive" of this is that they have cut back on the number of active abilities we can learn and replaced them with a lot of passives... so at least we won't be wasting too many points on abilities we won't be able to use.
The other thing to consider is that if we have only 8 mapped buttons with very few healing options, defensive abilities and buffs will almost certainly take priority. It's very likely that every character will wind up with a dodge or block skill (depending on class) and a buff ability (like Barrier for mages) permanently mapped because not having them will be too risky. So technically we may only have 6 abilities... some of which may be additional buffs or evasion skills. It's hard to say...
Now with all of that said, I'm sure I'll adapt to the new system, but I can't say that I'm enthusiastic about any of these changes.
lol
Oh, I agree completely... I can't understand a mage forgetting or refusing to use certain spells, or a warrior temporarily not being able to remember how to pull out their war horn and use Rally (I think that's the one with the horn). This system is far too similar to Kingdoms of Amalur for my liking... in that game, you wound up wasting points on a large number of skills due to the leveling system, but you could not access most of them without going into the menu to swap them for something you already had mapped. In DA:I, we don't even have that much freedom... whatever we have mapped going into combat is locked in until combat ends. The only "positive" of this is that they have cut back on the number of active abilities we can learn and replaced them with a lot of passives... so at least we won't be wasting too many points on abilities we won't be able to use.
The other thing to consider is that if we have only 8 mapped buttons with very few healing options, defensive abilities and buffs will almost certainly take priority. It's very likely that every character will wind up with a dodge or block skill (depending on class) and a buff ability (like Barrier for mages) permanently mapped because not having them will be too risky. So technically we may only have 6 abilities... some of which may be additional buffs or evasion skills. It's hard to say...
Now with all of that said, I'm sure I'll adapt to the new system, but I can't say that I'm enthusiastic about any of these changes.
Exactly, some of the slots will be filled with necessary utility and defense spells. We need more spells for the other spells we might like to switch from fight to fight. I don't care if they have a total of 20 active abilities, I need to have as many as possible in front of me.
Guest_TrillClinton_*
Meh i'm used to it, most of the top down RPGs I have played didn't have a health regen
To be honest, my first reaction to the removal of the healer archetype was "Nooo, ma healer, where did it go, Bioware u so mean!". But after a while, it actually made sense. *snip*
Life is supposed to make sense. Video games need to make only enough sense to allow suspension of disbelief. If you take something away, there should be a good reason for it. And well explained in game. Bioware does not have a good recent track record for this.
Life is supposed to make sense. Video games need to make only enough sense to allow suspension of disbelief. If you take something away, there should be a good reason for it. And well explained in game. Bioware does not have a good recent track record for this.
But that is the problem Bioware never made a good argument for including regenerating health and made in light of the previous games Bioware made before DAO which did not have this feature. DA2 went even a step further by including instant health and mana regen after combat which (IMHO) threw suspension of belief to the ground and stomp all over it.
But that is the problem Bioware never made a good argument for including regenerating health and made in light of the previous games Bioware made before DAO which did not have this feature. DA2 went even a step further by including instant health and mana regen after combat which (IMHO) threw suspension of belief to the ground and stomp all over it.
The removal of regenerating health isn't a problem by itself... the problem is that they also removed basic healing spells and have given us a severe limit on the number of potions we can carry. I think it's as low as single digits. All this is going to do is make us dependent on kiting and the Barrier spell, which sounds a lot less fun than the old system. Even worse, we'll be walking around with half health most of the time while we wait to drop below whatever % threshold our potion will cover so that we don't waste even a drop of healing power. It probably won't be as bad as I'm expecting but... ugh... it sounds pretty annoying.
I'm also concerned about this but frankly I'll still buy the game on Day 1.
However, I have never liked the 'Potion Heal' system, I much prefer something like Guild Wars where healing is always a skill which you have to manage the timing of, rather than a resource to sink gold into. In DA:O and DA:A it was far too easy to just spam potions making things too easy but I likewise don't want healing removed totally as it will lead to tons of backtracking.
DA2 was pretty close to what I think was perfect, though a switch to all healing being skill-based (and thus prob bringing in a form of healing for Warriors and Rogues) would be best.
If it's really terrible and everybody hates it then with enough complaining such a thing could probably be patched these days...
things I amworried about
healing-at the start of the game we wont have that much money to stock up on potions, I don't want to find my self stuck half way inside a dungeon, and then find out I have nothing to heal my self with also no heal regain after combat Bioware you are hurting your causal gamers if this gets to much of a problem I will take the game back.
the second thing is about customizing the keep I hope we get more than three options (and no not the same layout in just a different colour I saw the screenies and the only thing they changed was the statues in each screenshoot and the colors)
I like the idea of mounts but some dev said that if we use them we wont be able to hear the party banter well screw it I wont use mounts
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