203 réponses à ce sujet

[ZipZap2000]

You didn't say giving EDI a female form was absurd you said it was overly sexualised. How a robot body with no nipples or female genitalia or skin pigmentation made from armour plating and with an orange virtual interface strapped to her face can possibly be considered to be overly sexualised is frankly beyond me. Unless of course you find the female form itself to be overly sexualised, which would indicate some sort of problem in the way you perceive women and has nothing to do with the character itself.

 

I make the statement because it seems your argument centres around Samara having bewbs and an almost visible naval. I see no mention of Sheps body suddenly becoming very masculine or his visibly firmer buttocks (im a straight guy but damn Sheps been working out) or Jacobs package.

 

The logical conclusion for me to come to is that people are uncomfortable with being confronted by what appear to be attractive, confident. artistic expressions of the female form, perhaps they wished all female characters ave the ME1 Ashley/Liara Armour devoid any individualism only ever hinting at characteristics.

 

Personally i'd prefer characters dress codes match their personalities you seem to have taken offense at the statement and I apologise if that's the case but it wasn't intended to be a shot at you personally.  

 

But in the context of this thread, what I'm describing and the conversation itself it's far from the descriptive terminology of a dead tongue. It takes a certain level of maturity to get over the fact the character has knockers and a personality and you can appreciate both but maybe video gaming isn't quite ready for that yet.

[angol fear]

EDI is the mass effect version of Maria from Fritz Lang's Metropolis. The overly sexualised body can be said to Maria too.

[Quarian Master Race]

^I actually agree with some of your points ZipZap, particularly about the fact that the male characters are sexually objectified as well, but that doesn't excuse how over the top it goes with some of the females.

Miranda, Samara, and EDI  all have high heels that they wear in combat. I don't know if you have ever tried them, but what they do to your gait is completely unnatural and ineffecient from a locomotion perspective. It is damn near impossible to even run in them, nevermind sprinting around, vaulting over objects and engaging in hand to hand combat while carrying heavy weapons and equipment. It would be as ridiculous as one of the male charcters being equipped with snowshoes.

Then you have the outfits themselves. Miranda wears some latex catsuit thing that looks like it wouldn't be adequate for providing protection from a light breeze, nevermind gunfire, biotically induced blunt force, and tech attacks. I don't even know where the shield emitters are stored but anytime they get overloaded, she should just straight up die. Samara isn't much better. She at least has something resembling armor, but it is made almost entirely redundant by her desire to use the dubious tactical advantage afforded by an exposed chest and midsection. ME2 Jack is essentially entirely naked from the waist up, where all the squishy bits on a human being are.

Contrast these with other female characters that Bioware has done in the same game series. Ashley, even with her feminine ME3 makeover, wears functional combat armour that is at least similar to other alliance troopers at almost all times. As does Liara with her various armour sets. There is no ridiculous, impractical and gratuitous cleavage exposure or footwear. Tali is heavily armoured as well, with most of her design being functional, and the stylistic elements being mostly reduced to colouration and patterns. It's not as if none of them are sexualized, but they at least don't look comically non functional. This is similar to the male characters. Sure, Kaiden, Jacob, James, Broshep and even Garrus all have aspects to their design that are highly masculine, but you don't see James, for example, running around the battlefield in the (far too tight) shirt he wears on the Normandy. He puts on armor because that would be stupid and immersion breaking. The only male character who even comes close to some of the more egregiously objectified females is probably Thane with his silly combat trenchcoat, and he was purposefully designed that way.

I could even bring up the alternate Miranda outfit with the Cerberus armour. It was really well done, and actually made me subconsiously stop being so annoyed by the character so much. That should have been the outfit she was given from the beginning, with the stupid catsuit as DLC if you really wanted to pay for gratuitous male fanservice. Samara should have been done more like Vasir, Shiala or any of the Asari mercs/commandos we run into with some unique bits thrown in. There is no reason the female characters can't be functional and distinctive while still being feminine or "sexy", as exemplified by Ash, Tali, Liara and several of the male characters' designs.

[ZipZap2000]

I'm not arguing that the men are sexualised or that it makes sense to be dressed like that in combat. I'm just saying it's fine to have them dressed that way in a video game provided you aren't turning them into vacant shells who's only purpose is to be ogled by teenage gamers.

[DemiserofD]

Well, the issue I've got with EDI's body is more that it's sexual at all rather than it being overtly sexual. What the heck is the point of huge boobs on a combat robot? I mean, she can apparently project tactile flawless holograms of clothing, good enough to not be noticed over weeks of infiltration, yet she needs huge boobs built into her chassis? Like EDI says, it's top heavy.

 

Now if she decided to project a hologram to emphasize her femininity, possibly for Joker's benefit, that would be fine with me, because it fits both the practical design decisions as well as the characters themselves. Heck, it would create an actual significant difference in supporting versus rejecting their relationship. But combat heels and gag boobs on a combat robot? It's practically a farce.

 

On the other hand, I don't really have any problem with Jack's lack of clothing. First off, she isn't as massively endowed as EDI, which means a lack of support is more realistic. Furthermore, as the most powerful human biotic in existence, one could assume that she gets all her protection from her biotic barriers, making even a suit with kinetic barrier projectors unnecessary. Of course, if she lost her barriers she'd die with one shot. But I'm pretty sure, lore-wise, that's the way it is with everything. I'm fairly certain I read in some codex entry that modern weaponry makes actual armor basically irrelevant, implying that the 'health/shields' system is purely for gameplay purposes and not meant to imply anything into the actual realistic content of combat.

[ZipZap2000]

shes an infiltration unit going to be hard to pose as a human female without breasts.

[Farangbaa]

Why is this still going on?

 

Honestly, what these games are telling us is the following:

 

Shooting someone's head into a million pieces --> happens all the damn time.

Taking your bra off in the shower --> YOU MUST BE MAD

 

I think we can all agree that does not resemble real life unless you're a front line IS warrior.

[von uber]

shes an infiltration unit going to be hard to pose as a human female without breasts.

You do know they gave her a dromedary foot ending don't you?
Or, as we like to say, a banshee special.

And to argue that the male characters are sexualised to anywhere near the same degree as the female is just ridiculous.

Want a case in point? Show me a single male stripper / pole dancer in any of the trilogy.

[ZipZap2000]

I wasn't arguing the males were overly sexualised I was making the point that nobody seems to care if they have 'enhanced' their aesthetic qualities.

[themikefest]

The robot is a waste of a squadmate. Too bad there wasn't an option to throw the platform out the airlock

[KaiserShep]

There's no real reason why another squadmate couldn't exist alongside robot EDI. The Normandy could conceivably have spots for a couple more with no problem. Question is, how do you determine which ones come back? Is it first come first serve? I think it was inevitable that some people were just not going to be happy about it, because there's just too many, an issue that could have been easily resolved by not having Shepard swap out squadmates mid series.

[themikefest]

Since you have 7 squadmates on the roster, one being a dlc, I would have 3 from ME1 and 3 from ME2. But the one's from ME2 can be dead. So can Garrus and Tali, but yet they made it on the roster. So it can be done. Its just who to put on the roster.

[Iakus]

EDI is the mass effect version of Maria from Fritz Lang's Metropolis. The overly sexualised body can be said to Maria too.

C3-PO was also based on Maria too, so, yeah...

[Iakus]

You didn't say giving EDI a female form was absurd you said it was overly sexualised. How a robot body with no nipples or female genitalia or skin pigmentation made from armour plating and with an orange virtual interface strapped to her face can possibly be considered to be overly sexualised is frankly beyond me. Unless of course you find the female form itself to be overly sexualised, which would indicate some sort of problem in the way you perceive women and has nothing to do with the character itself.

 

I make the statement because it seems your argument centres around Samara having bewbs and an almost visible naval. I see no mention of Sheps body suddenly becoming very masculine or his visibly firmer buttocks (im a straight guy but damn Sheps been working out) or Jacobs package.

 

The logical conclusion for me to come to is that people are uncomfortable with being confronted by what appear to be attractive, confident. artistic expressions of the female form, perhaps they wished all female characters ave the ME1 Ashley/Liara Armour devoid any individualism only ever hinting at characteristics.

 

Personally i'd prefer characters dress codes match their personalities you seem to have taken offense at the statement and I apologise if that's the case but it wasn't intended to be a shot at you personally.  

 

But in the context of this thread, what I'm describing and the conversation itself it's far from the descriptive terminology of a dead tongue. It takes a certain level of maturity to get over the fact the character has knockers and a personality and you can appreciate both but maybe video gaming isn't quite ready for that yet.

It's not that Samara has "bewbs" It's that she appears to be nearly popping out of her outfit.  While in combat, at that.  

 

I have in the past commented on how sexualized some of the main characters are.  In particular Jacob and Thane.  

 

And yes, EDI was oversexualized.  You don't need exposed genetalia for that.  Her body type is of Barbiesque proportions.  

 

I'd say maturity is being able to see that, yes, a character is female (or male) without requiring visual proof of such.  I mean, take a look at the female   companions and advisors in DAI.  All are undeniably female (and attractive), but all are wearing sensible outfits for their roles.

[angol fear]

C3-PO was also based on Maria too, so, yeah...

You should take a look at Metropolis before saying thing like that .

And take a look at the context because the society when Metropolis was made isn't our. You should think about it.

 

edit : Because it's obvious you don't know Metropolis and Maria :

http://www.jeffbots.com/maria.html

[Han Shot First]

Regarding armor in the next game...

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with sex appeal if it makes sense for that character, and so long as practicality isn't sacrificed for aesthetics. The problems with Samara & Miranda's combat outfits in ME2 wasn't that it was sexy, it was those designs didn't look like they would serve their intended function. Both characters wore heels, Samara left her chest exposed, and before DLC Miranda only wore catsuits.

 

The armor designs for Liara in ME3 (although she needed helmets), Tali, and two of Ashley's ME3 armors (not the default) are all examples of armor designs that look attractive without sacrificing practicality. That is the route to go in the next game if a character is being designed to be physically appealing. Armor that looks practical doesn't need to be sacrificed in order to achieve that.

 

Also assuming that the next game carries over having characters wear casual outfits when off duty rather than combat armor, you could always save the sex appeal for that. Even so, it still needs to make sense for the character. Someone in an Alliance military uniform for example shouldn't be showing cleavage or wearing something that is different from every other Alliance soldier or Marine you've met in the series. Militaries value uniformity and the Alliance should be no exception. If you're going to have an Alliance character wearing something sexy when off duty, have that outfit be civilian clothing rather than some sexed-up version of a military uniform. While Ashley's ME3 armors were good, her default catsuit should have instead been replaced by camo utilities similar to those worn by Traynor. Or if they wanted something more appealing, have her wear civilian clothing aboard the Citadel.

[Reorte]

Sex-appeal design-wise Miranda is so excessively over the top when I first saw her I wanted to face palm, not sleep with her. As for EVA, as an infiltration unit a bit more subtlety would've made a lot more sense.

[Vazgen]

One can understand wearing heels into battle and having non-functional "armor" because the shields pretty much cover all the protection they need (and they always have trouble catching up anyway ). However, Jack with almost bare chest in an airless environment with just a breather mask? That's just dumb. I ended up taking only Garrus, Grunt, Legion or Tali in places like Collector Ship and Geth server hub. Bioware really overlook the atmosphere thing in ME2 and 3 (the last one because I don't think both Tuchanka, Sur'Kesh and Rannoch have the same atmosphere which is similar to Earth's)

[Larry-3]

I have no idea why fans get so annoyed by sexual female squadmates. Are you wanting a tomboy like girl on your squad? There is nothing wrong with that, but I prefer my females more feminine. I do not mind Samara and Miranda having... what looks like C-cups to me. Samara needed a change of clothes for combat, but other than that she looks good. As for EDI's body I prefer that than a snow-globe hologram that was nearly useless. If you do not like EDI walking around in combat in, what looks like a black bathensuit, just change her clothes. I alway give her the black outfit. As for them running in heels, that is a joke. In Mass Effect 2 you could barely run 2 miles per hour and you could only sprint at 5 miles per hour for 3 seconds. Miranda's outfit is questionable, but I always assumed her outfit was some type of fiber-padded resistant suit. I do not know what materials would be around in the 2180's. I know in Mass Effect, looks can be deceiving. One example is how my barriers can somehow work without armor on. I know that is not clothing, but still. As for your squadmates walking around on a ship with only a breath mask on, I do not think the vacuum of space would be a problem because they are walking around the ship with gravity so there must be some type of atmospheric field to it. As long as oxygen is going into their nose and mouth they should be fine. If they got blasted out into space then they would be dead.

[Reorte]

It's not about wanting tomboys, it's about getting tired of them being so ridiculously over the top it's not even funny (and a large porportion of female characters being like that - even the background NPCs in many games are universally huge-chested and wearing outfits that highlight it). C-cups? They are much, much bigger than that. Far too many just look like a teenage fantasy.

 

I like Tali's figure mind you.

[Iakus]

It's not about wanting tomboys, it's about getting tired of them being so ridiculously over the top it's not even funny (and a large porportion of female characters being like that - even the background NPCs in many games are universally huge-chested and wearing outfits that highlight it). C-cups? They are much, much bigger than that. Far too many just look like a teenage fantasy.

 

I like Tali's figure mind you.

Can't like twice, I I'll just say "QFT"

[Larry-3]

Can't like twice, I I'll just say "QFT"

 

This would probably not even be a problem if Bioware had just kept all the armor customization. Do you recall in Mass Effect 1 when you could change what they could wear? I do not understand why that feature was removed. There was no complaints towards it. They took out everything thing that was okay and left everything that was not okay.

[von uber]

I'd like to know why shep got a boob job during her 6 months in prison.

[SporkFu]

I'd like to know why shep got a boob job during her 6 months in prison.

 

Judge: You killed three hundred thousand batarians. How do you plead?

shep: Guilty, your honor.

Judge: I see here you have negotiated a deal in exchange for your plea.

shep: That is correct, your honor.

Judge: Hmmm... house arrest in Alliance HQ? For mass murder?

shep: Your honor, you don't bet against commander shepard. 

Judge: So it seems. Wait... there's more. Cosmetic surgery?

shep: That is correct, your honor.

Judge: Strange request, I must say. Changing your face, commander? So no one recognizes you?

shep: err... that is correct, your honor. 

[Han Shot First]

I'd like to know why shep got a boob job during her 6 months in prison.

 

She wanted to be like Jack and Liara. All the cool kids were doing it.