63 réponses à ce sujet

[in it for the lolz]

An Idea that has been proven false over and over again.

[SnapSIX]

Yeah, asking for feedback in a decent and respectful manner was clearly too large a task - I should have specified that was what I was looking for. Not to be called out as an idiot for believing something different.

[Excella Gionne]

Excellent, just excellent - those are JUST the words you wanna use to prove your point of view. There is no source to back up your claim!

 

Bioware, who made the game and know much more than any of us, have stated that Indoctrination is not voluntary - it's in the codex. Yes, it can be broken, but being indoctrinated is not a choice. https://www.youtube....h?v=jI1yekAjJls - there we go! 

 

Just silly? If you follow that logic, everything in the game is silly, isn't it?

Indoctrination is introduced as some kind of hypnotic effect. It's basically hypnosis but in space magic form. Indoctrination(ME version)and Hypnosis have very strong similarities, the only difference is that once you're indoctrinated, you're indoctrinated.

[Excella Gionne]

If Shep was indoctrinated, wouldn't that mean the Prothean VI would have detected it? Does Shep somehow gets exempt from the VI's defense protocol? Same goes for Vigil. 

[themikefest]

Anderson is indoctrinated. Its the only reason why the clown wants Shepard to go up the middle where the resistance is the heaviest. And only Shepard can support the tanks. Anderson doesn't care about Shepard.

 

Since Andersomething was indoctrinated, his master, Harbinger, told him not to help Shepard during the beam run. That's why he did nothing to help Shepard with the 3 husks and shields.

 

Shields shot Shepard in the right shoulder. The wound in his/her gut could be from the blast by Harbinger.

 

Once you see Anderson, Harbinger relinquishes control of Anderson passing control onto TIM. To free Anderson of his indoctrination, have TIM kill him

[Excella Gionne]

Anderson is indoctrinated. Its the only reason why the clown wants Shepard to go up the middle where the resistance is the heaviest. And only Shepard can support the tanks. Anderson doesn't care about Shepard.

 

Since Andersomething was indoctrinated, his master, Harbinger, told him not to help Shepard during the beam run. That's why he did nothing to help Shepard with the 3 husks and shields.

 

Shields shot Shepard in the right shoulder. The wound in his/her gut could be from the blast by Harbinger.

 

Once you see Anderson, Harbinger relinquishes control of Anderson passing control onto TIM. To free Anderson of his indoctrination, have TIM kill him

IT is as much speculation as to the speculation of what BioWare was doing when they were finishing up ME3. 

[themikefest]

IT is as much speculation as to the speculation of what BioWare was doing when they were finishing up ME3. 

Rename the game. ME3: Speculation for Everyone.

[Excella Gionne]

Rename the game. ME3: Speculation for Everyone.

I think BioWare didn't realize that they made their unintentional coincidences too obvious. IT is believable until up to the point where "what happens to the reapers," if you minus the other things that contradict the IT Theory. 

[Daemul]

OP, you're right, Shepard's eyes are cybernetic. We see this in the Overlord DLC when David Archer is able to hack Shepard through his eyes, and also in the From Ashes DLC when Shepard is looking at the videos for ways to open Javik's pod. Like you also said, Shepard's eyes are not from Indoctrination.

 

On the rest of the Indoctrination Theory however, I ain't getting within a mile of that.

[in it for the lolz]

Anderson is indoctrinated. Its the only reason why the clown wants Shepard to go up the middle where the resistance is the heaviest. And only Shepard can support the tanks. Anderson doesn't care about Shepard.

 

Since Andersomething was indoctrinated, his master, Harbinger, told him not to help Shepard during the beam run. That's why he did nothing to help Shepard with the 3 husks and shields.

 

Shields shot Shepard in the right shoulder. The wound in his/her gut could be from the blast by Harbinger.

 

Once you see Anderson, Harbinger relinquishes control of Anderson passing control onto TIM. To free Anderson of his indoctrination, have TIM kill him

I knew there was something fishy about Anderson!

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Indoctrinated eyes:

 

(Harbinger: "Releasing control").

 

 

Cybernetics (not indoctrination):

 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Also, a winning post by Steelcan that proves that TIM's eyes were not connected to his Reaper indoctrination (and more of my thorough rebuttal against the "indoctrinated eyes" conventional-wisdom):

 

http://forum.bioware...plants-vs-eyes/

[OPM_Lunacy]

About seeing things in a game:

You always tend to see what you want to see: that's called selective perception
When you see 'the eyes change', you are influenced by the fact that you know, heard, saw... things

E.g.:People who have no idea of the existence of the monster of Loch Ness saw nothing in that lake when a random item appeared, people who belief in the monster saw 'the head of a monster' when the random item appeared in the lake

It is more or less the same with 'the eyes changes', maybe you think that the eyes change, and suddenly you see 'the eyes of Shepard changing'

Of course, the less you know about something, the more your imagination does the trick: if you know of the existence of 'indoctrination by Reapers', but you don't know every fact of it, you start making up things because your brains wants to explain things, your brain wants to have all the info (experience expecting brain)

So talking about the indoctrination theory is not an easy tasks: everybody beliefs things, and is quite certain that his/her explaination is the best in the world

[Excella Gionne]

Sorry, I had to...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

When i picked destroy on my first EC playthrough the screen was half red and half green. It was Christmas in July! Hey new theory. Xmas Theory

[Excella Gionne]

When i picked destroy on my first EC playthrough the screen was half red and half green. It was Christmas in July! Hey new theory. Xmas Theory

If only you had pictures...

[Dale]

Guys & Gals…this is a forum for FUN speculation & conjecture.   If you call it BLUE and I think it is RED, then I’m open to hearing your point of view as maybe I’ve missed something.  I then present my case.  If neither is convincing in 3 bounces, I move on to the next thread.   In my view, anything more is hijacking & derailing the thread (I can think of one hijacked where 40-50% is ALL ABOUT HIM).

 

May I offer my point of view?   Analogy.   Consider the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek.  The former is a Saturday afternoon shoot-em-up gee-whizz fun movie.   Isn’t Yoda cute?   Swinging light sabers and Harrison Ford saying “I have a bad feeling about this, chewbacca”…. afterward drinks at the funky outlaw bar.   Nobody strains their brain on that.   Similarly, I remember watching an episode of “Kung Fu” and in middle of the episode, after the slo-mo fight, the kids (now gum-chewing cell phone idiots) got up and left.

 

Alternatively, SOME Star Trek episodes have some deep anthropological richness to them – that really make you THINK.   My 4 favorites are (1) where thoughts become a reality when warping to the other side of the universe (2) Similar – when Crusher’s thoughts about folks dying begins to shrink the universe collapsing around her (3) Worf shifts thru multiple realities & can’t understand why there are changes (like he discovers he’s married to Troy) and (4) “who watches the watchers” where they study a bronze age culture that discovers them – then makes you wonder who is watching who.   The POINT:  enjoy both – they are not mutually exclusive.  Enjoy them fully for what they are.    Heck, I still love a Roadrunner cartoons (still a kid).

 

Before I ruffle some fur here, let me FIRST state that I just LOVE the Mass Effect universe.  Most games are self-contained whereas few (like mass effect) FLOW from game-to-game.  

 

I was in my attic couple months back and opened a box with a TON of old games I’ve played.   Now I buy & download -- 71 on Steam -- and 2 on Origin.    There are fun games, LIGHT on the puzzles – and in contrast, pure PUZZLE games.  Funny puzzle games like Sam & Max & “serious” puzzle games like The Longest Journey & the Myst series where you just try and FIND YOUR WAY.   These are likely 99% adult games since most kids don’t have the patience.   Heck, it took me about 20 hours just figuring out to get off the island (Myst-1) and that was just the START of it.

 

In the past I’d ALTERNATE from getting the SH*T shot out of me – to a purely PUZZLE game.  After playing Myst-4, for 3 months, I gave up – requires someone smarter than me.  Unless you’ve played these -- you probably can’t relate to what I’m about to say…

 

From a business perspective, consider exactly WHO your audience (customer) is.   Do you really think when ME1 was created that months & months of careful thought would be put into it -- so that it would all make sense 8 years later in ME3?   Lots of games belly up the first round.   The producers have no idea if this will be a hit – or will they be holding up cardboard at the intersection.

 

BTY-if I recall, Shep’s eyes turned GREEN when recruiting Javik (looking at the screen).  Then a different color during the citadel party where they had to “mingle” in the club and turn off switches, etc.

 

In my view, the ME series is enormously FUN to play.  As the saying goes “a leopard doesn’t change its spots so easily”.    I can’t see such complex change & parallel undertones that would suggest something so complex and clandestine as suggested in the 2.5 hour and 1.5 hour and 12 minute movies I’ve seen on the indoctrination theory.   Perhaps in our enthusiasm, we are reading TOO MUCH into it that isn’t there.  I really believe it is the CREATIVE part of us that really does want to write a video game – and that is certainly commendable.

[AlanC9]

I'm a little confused by the thread. OP criticizes IT. Other posters criticize IT. OP is bothered by this. What am I missing?

[ImaginaryMatter]

I'm a little confused by the thread. OP criticizes IT. Other posters criticize IT. OP is bothered by this. What am I missing?

 

People are criticizing it incorrectly? I think we've all been there.

[Farangbaa]

I'm a little confused by the thread. OP criticizes IT. Other posters criticize IT. OP is bothered by this. What am I missing?

 

 

Anyway, that's just something I wanted to get out there for people to see. I still believe that the theory has a LOT of valid points and is the explanation that makes the most sense overall. Hope you guys will give this a read and some feedback on my thoughts - thanks!

 

He only criticizes the eyes, which I didn't even know was a part of IT.

 

These guys see stuff in everything

[Kabooooom]

If Shep was indoctrinated, wouldn't that mean the Prothean VI would have detected it? Does Shep somehow gets exempt from the VI's defense protocol? Same goes for Vigil.

Not necessarily. I'm not supporting IT here at all, but I never found this to be a particularly compelling argument against Indoctrination, because there are at least two solid explanations for why the VI didn't mention anything.

The first is because Indoctrination is not an all-or-nothing event. There are gradations of indoctrination- a fact many forget when having these discussions. And, presumably, like ANY test that can ever be designed by virtue of being a test - there would likely be a sensitivity and specificity associated with the VI's detection capabilities. Ie: there would probably be a minimum degree of change to the brain in which indoctrination is undetectable, and indistinguishable from some other neuropathological change.

The second explanation comes from the codex description of indoctrination itself - it can be slow, or extremely rapid. At the time of all interactions with the VI, Shep was not indoctrinated, and only undergoes rapid indoctrination later while in Reaper town on Earth.

Both are hand-wavy counter arguments, of course - but both are reasonable. And besides, IT is pretty much entirely 100% hand-wavy to begin with.

[FOX216BC]

 Indoctrinated eyes:

 

(Harbinger: "Releasing control").

 

 

Cybernetics (not indoctrination):

 

 

 

Don't have a opinion on IT.

But pretty sure these people are indoctrinated.

There is a difference between Harbinger assuming direct control of  indoctrinated subjects and simply being indoctrinated.

[Perpetual Nirvana]

Oh for the love of...IT should have been debunked once and for all the second Mass Effect 4 was announced. The fact that people STILL cling to this is beyond me.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Warning: stoner revelation ahead. While my interwebs was down for 24 hrs, I watched one of Casey Hudson's favorite movies. The Matrix. I also watched the beginning to Reloaded. I did this on U2 Kush, so you'll have to understand. I figured out where the graphics for the Synthesis ending came from in the EC. It's the beginning to Reloaded. The Matrix is green. Shepard chooses synthesis, and the galaxy gets harvested. We're all in reapers linked together experiencing the end of the war. It was a trap.

 

Well it made more sense then.... but check it. You can see the idea brewing. And who said "First Matrix Ending" means destroy?

 

First it was a long slow breath, not a gasp in The Matrix when Trinity kissed Neo.

 

 

And it ended with a showing green numbers frozen and [SYSTEM FAILURE] but this resembles the graphics shown when EDI gives her dialogue in the EC.

 

 

It's a trap!

[rapscallioness]

hmm. interesting thread. like watching somebody get mugged in 2 pages.

 

thumbs down, bsn. thumbs down: