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#2726
Gilsa

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Doesn't the slide show at the end of origins say that dwarf noble becomes king after harrowmont dies?

 

Not quite.

 

In time, Harrowmont's health began to fail. Some claimed it was poison, while others said it was a flagging spirit. Either way, after a protracted illness, the king finally passed away. The wrangling in the Assembly for a successor began almost immediately.

 

The assembly unanimously declared [warden's name] a living Paragon, following months of deliberation. A new statue was erected in the Commons and a new house founded in the Paragon's name, quickly drawing a great number of followers from every caste.

 

Either way, I had forgotten that Harrowmont died. I wonder if this was a handwave for DAI or if these events merely have not yet come to pass.



#2727
veeia

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Rule of thumb is to pretend the epilogue slides never happened.

This is easy for me to do, because my first few PTs of Origins were bugged and I never got them. :lol:
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#2728
herkles

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Rule of thumb is to pretend the epilogue slides never happened.

This is easy for me to do, because my first few PTs of Origins were bugged and I never got them. :lol:

True. I like to view them of things that could happen not things that will happen.

 

anyways what do other dwarf supporters think of the info I posted on Tevinter Dwarves?


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#2729
Eterna

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I disagree with this.  The dwarves of Orzammar aren't a hive mind.  We see that there are varying levels of interest and skill in playing the political game there.  While it makes a great story to play a cunning, politically savvy, and ambitious Aeducan, there's nothing to suggest that every dwarf noble has to have this outlook.

 

I think it makes perfect sense for an Aeducan to be fiercely loyal to Endrin.  As the favored child, to see both Trian and Endrin die because of the actions of Bhelen and then combine with the fact that your father clearly favored Harrowmont and Harrowmont will accept your son into his noble house, I can easily imagine a scenario where an Aeducan Warden could view supporting Harrowmont as: 1.) honoring your father's wishes; and 2.) providing a safe and stable environment and future for your son; both of which support the dwarven notion of family and lineages without supporting Bhelen.

 

Again, supporting Bhelen could absolutely make sense.  But not supporting Bhelen could as well.  It doesn't mean we're playing our dwarves wrong.

 

We have no Idea what Endrin thought of Harrowmont, the only thing we have is Harrowmonts word. Endrin choosing Harrowmont over his own clan is simply not the Dwarvish way. We are given numerous codexes and examples of Dwarves vying to ensure their families standings and we are expected to then believe Endrin goes completely against this principle. Too me it means one of two things:

 

-Bioware is inconsistant

-Harrowmont is lying

 

The most likely answer that fits in with the Dwarvish way is that Harrowmont saw an opportunity and is trying to manipulate his family to a greater position of power. 

 

Also I'm not saying you're playing your Dwarf wrong, I'm saying you're playing your Dwarf with a surfacer mentality. An Orzammar Dwarf who thought like you is not fit to lead Dwarves as their pettiness and weakness would see them disposed of quickly. 



#2730
Vaseldwa

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True. I like to view them of things that could happen not things that will happen.

 

anyways what do other dwarf supporters think of the info I posted on Tevinter Dwarves?

 

It is very interesting and good to know. 


Modifié par CastelessScars, 11 décembre 2014 - 07:53 .


#2731
daveliam

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We have no Idea what Endrin thought of Harrowmont, the only thing we have is Harrowmonts word. Endrin choosing Harrowmont over his own clan is simply not the Dwarvish way. We are given numerous codexes and examples of Dwarves vying to ensure their families standings and we are expected to then believe Endrin goes completely against this principle. Too me it means one of two things:

 

-Bioware is inconsistant

-Harrowmont is lying

 

The most likely answer that fits in with the Dwarvish way is that Harrowmont saw an opportunity and is trying to manipulate his family to a greater position of power. 

 

Also I'm not saying you're playing your Dwarf wrong, I'm saying you're playing your Dwarf with a surfacer mentality. An Orzammar Dwarf who thought like you is not fit to lead Dwarves as their pettiness and weakness would see them disposed of quickly. 

 

Looks like we have to agree to disagree on this one.  I think you have a very singular and limited way of viewing the "Orzammar Dwarf".  That works for you, so go with it.  But I certainly don't think it's the only (or right) interpretation of the situation.


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#2732
Gilsa

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Here is what the world of thedas says on Tevinter Dwarves, rather interesting IMO :)

 

I thought that was another fantastic dwarf origin to explore right there -- living on the surface with the caste system still intact. It will be very interesting for roleplay. An Aeducan who is stripped of caste and goes to the surface has the potential for a culture shock and to re-evaulate whether to stay traditional like deshyrs or to reshape their values. Tevinter dwarves, though, wow! Two worlds colliding right there.



#2733
Gilsa

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We have no Idea what Endrin thought of Harrowmont, the only thing we have is Harrowmonts word. Endrin choosing Harrowmont over his own clan is simply not the Dwarvish way. We are given numerous codexes and examples of Dwarves vying to ensure their families standings and we are expected to then believe Endrin goes completely against this principle. Too me it means one of two things:

 

-Bioware is inconsistant

-Harrowmont is lying

 

The most likely answer that fits in with the Dwarvish way is that Harrowmont saw an opportunity and is trying to manipulate his family to a greater position of power. 

 

Also I'm not saying you're playing your Dwarf wrong, I'm saying you're playing your Dwarf with a surfacer mentality. An Orzammar Dwarf who thought like you is not fit to lead Dwarves as their pettiness and weakness would see them disposed of quickly. 

 

Actually if you speak to Nerav Helmi, who was supposed to marry Trian and be Aeducan's sister-in-law, she specifically says that King Endrin appointed Lord Harrowmont as his heir. There is enough information in the game to show that King Endrin was anti-Bhelen. The assembly chooses who will be king, but the king has the power to nominate a successor. The throne is not carried down via blood.


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#2734
daveliam

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Actually if you speak to Nerav Helmi, who was supposed to marry Trian and be Aeducan's sister-in-law, she specifically says that King Endrin appointed Lord Harrowmont as his heir. There is enough information in the game to show that King Endrin was anti-Bhelen. The assembly chooses who will be king, but the king has the power to nominate a successor. The throne is not carried down via blood.

 

Thanks for providing this.  I couldn't remember where I saw that (was it in a codex?  a random conversation?  an npc?), so I didn't want to outright state that Endrin openly supported Harrowmont without having the appropriate source.  Nerav is also a great example of a dwarf noble who is not overtly manipulative, but still has her ear to the ground with regards to politics.  There is definitely enough in-game evidence to support an Aeducan Warden being pro-Harrowmont without having it be conflicting with "dwarf nature". 



#2735
Tishina

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I've never understood this. "My Aeducan obviously put Harrowmont on the throne, Bhelen betrayed me!!". 

 

To Dwarves their clan and heritage is everything, they take far more pride not in themselves, but in the standing of their families. A Dwarven noble would always prefer to place a member of their family on a powerful position because they are not looking out for themselves, their personal issues and arguments are second to their families standing.  In fact, as opposed to being shocked and feeling betrayed, it would be far more in line with Dwarven culture to respect Bhelen more after such an act of betrayal because he outplayed and beat you at the game. It is actually quite similar to the Orlesian "game". 

 

Any Dwarven noble should be trying to get themselves on the throne, if this is not possible and the noble is disqualified for reasons, like being a Grey Warden, they would settle for the next bet thing, getting another of their clan on the throne to continue the legacy of their bloodline. 

 

Any Aeducan Warden who put Harrowmont on the throne due to Bhelen betraying them was being played by a person who gave their Dwarven Warden a human mindset. 

First, that isn't exactly what I said. Everyone has their own take on this, but frankly, if there was only one true way for an Orzammar dwarf to think, what would be the point of giving people a choice?

 

I was talking from the perspective of that particular Aeducan warden and the personality I gave her, who is someone who puts Orzammar above even family (she has the Paragon Aeducan thing going, go read the codex stuff for the founding paragon if that doesn't make sense). And since their father supposedly supported Harrowmont over Bhelen, I think the standing of family isn't more important than anything else even generally. Being convicted of being a kinslayer, at any rate, is probably good grounds for holding a grudge stronger than family loyalty (I find the dwarves far more complex as individuals than just "family first and everything else can go to h**l.) I actually read them as putting personal interest ahead of family a lot of the time, myself. Big talk about honor in public, but that's not what plays behind the scenes.

 

That said, my second dwarf, with a different personality and more suspicious of Harrowmont, will let his suspicions tilt the balance toward Bhelen instead.


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#2736
TEWR

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Actually if you speak to Nerav Helmi, who was supposed to marry Trian and be Aeducan's sister-in-law, she specifically says that King Endrin appointed Lord Harrowmont as his heir. There is enough information in the game to show that King Endrin was anti-Bhelen. The assembly chooses who will be king, but the king has the power to nominate a successor. The throne is not carried down via blood.

 

Nerav Helmi was actually supposed to marry the PC Aeducan. You're thinking of a different Helmi (Jaylia) mentioned in Trian's journal.


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#2737
Gilsa

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You're right. Her "we might have been sisters-in-law" comment threw me off.



#2738
Eterna

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Okay look, I'm not saying all Dwarves are a hive mind, I'm saying a Dwarven Noble, which Paragon Aeducan is, would think like a Dwarven noble. He/she would adhere to the line of thinking I presented because he/she was brought up in such an environment. If your Aeducan does not think this way they have given up their Dwarven noble mentality and adopted a surfacer ala human mentality.



#2739
Gilsa

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I've been watching various youtube videos over the past couple of days (need a break from the game now that I finally beat it) and it turns out that the Carta dwarf gets special dialogue with Blackwall in the "you are who you choose to follow" conversation. The human and elf conversations are exactly the same and say nothing about their past. I cannot find the qunari version anywhere though. I'm now more appreciative of that scene, especially since Cadash can joke that the rumors are not true and Blackwall will say something like, "Oh, so you didn't kill an Antivan count with a wheel of cheese? Shame. I was hoping that rumor was true." With the discussion about leaving the criminal past behind, it really does seem like Cadash and Blackwall are more like peers in this regard, y'know?


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#2740
veeia

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I love Cadash and Blackwall so much. <3

Re: Tevinter dwarves. I was very excited when I first read that, and Dorian's comments really back it up. I have high hopes for dwarf content in a hypothetical Tevinter game.
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#2741
Gilsa

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I do, too. The more I look into the pairing, the more appreciative I become. Not that I'm making light of his actions though. It's rough reading up on the stuff that I didn't know before on my first PT like I never had Cole in my group so I didn't get his perceptive banter with Blackwall. This is a very complicated character and I like that they dared to push the boundaries like this.


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#2742
veeia

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Same. I really appreciate that they don't gloss over it either. It's just in your face, this very human contradiction of someone who did something terrible but is not a terrible person.

#2743
Cespar

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How's the Cadash and Blackwall relationship? I don't think Dorian even mention anything about my race in the romance. I know Cassandra and Sera mentions your race in the romance.



#2744
Tishina

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Who wants to see updated photos of the Further Adventures of Graeme Cadash?  Photos contain some plot spoilers (but anyone who has gotten to Skyhold will already know this stuff)......

 

Spoiler

 

I love how 'dwarfy' (as Sera would say) he looks in the last two pictures. 

 

I'm having a really hard time recreating my qunari in a way that I'm happy with him.  I trashed the one I posted last week.  Something just wasn't right.  I have some time before it's important (I've really just started getting to good stuff with Graeme and then I still have the Agathe playthrough), but I'm itching to get my Adaar Inquisitor back since he'll be my canon Inquisitor. 

Mmm, I still think Graeme is the best looking male dwarf I've seen yet. ;)


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#2745
Tishina

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I've been watching various youtube videos over the past couple of days (need a break from the game now that I finally beat it) and it turns out that the Carta dwarf gets special dialogue with Blackwall in the "you are who you choose to follow" conversation. The human and elf conversations are exactly the same and say nothing about their past. I cannot find the qunari version anywhere though. I'm now more appreciative of that scene, especially since Cadash can joke that the rumors are not true and Blackwall will say something like, "Oh, so you didn't kill an Antivan count with a wheel of cheese? Shame. I was hoping that rumor was true." With the discussion about leaving the criminal past behind, it really does seem like Cadash and Blackwall are more like peers in this regard, y'know?

Oh, this sounds like fun, hope there's an option to say "oh, well THAT rumor is true."

 

I'm still trying to reconstruct how I want Zhenya to look (man, did I ever pick all the wrong things in trying to work her out in advance; LI choice 1, nope, 2, nope, 3, nope, 4, nope, ok, so on to 5 :blink: :P ). Since I'm not sure I like any of the hair options for her, I may end up going with a buzz cut/shaved head look and go a bit extreme in her appearance, like CathTea's Catina a few pages back, but older.


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#2746
herkles

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I love Cadash and Blackwall so much. <3

Re: Tevinter dwarves. I was very excited when I first read that, and Dorian's comments really back it up. I have high hopes for dwarf content in a hypothetical Tevinter game.

I am hoping that there are some interesting revelations for dwarves in da4 if it is in tevinter, like there were for elves in inquistion



#2747
HuldraDancer

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Hello fellow dwarf fans! I haven't been on here in ages so just wanted to poke in and say something I've noticed kind of odd about the female dwarfs that may have been brought up already so I apologize if it has been, do the female dwarf's breasts look a bit triangle to anyone else while in the casual wear for sky hold? Odd thing to bring up but its kind of distracting to me looks like she's wearing a mini Madonna cone bra.


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#2748
Gilsa

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How's the Cadash and Blackwall relationship? I don't think Dorian even mention anything about my race in the romance. I know Cassandra and Sera mentions your race in the romance.

 

Veeia will have her own opinions on this, but I thought it was a bit strange at first because I couldn't tell if he liked Cadash as she was or if he was in love with the Inquisitor as an idealized symbol. If you keep in mind that he's written for all the races -- humans, elves, qunari, and dwarves, then you will become more understanding of his dialogue limitations. He did acknowledge the Carta background and it was the perfect opportunity for him to come clean about his lie, but at least Cadash can choose to be hurt over his lying more than his past when it comes to light. You know?

 

What tickles me is that he keeps calling her "Lady Cadash." I imagine that's exciting for a gal that's been treated as a thug from the get-go. Other than that, I don't recall any more dwarf specific conversations.

 

Spoiler


Modifié par Gilsa, 12 décembre 2014 - 03:33 .


#2749
Gilsa

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Hello fellow dwarf fans! I haven't been on here in ages so just wanted to poke in and say something I've noticed kind of odd about the female dwarfs that may have been brought up already so I apologize if it has been, do the female dwarf's breasts look a bit triangle to anyone else while in the casual wear for sky hold? Odd thing to bring up but its kind of distracting to me looks like she's wearing a mini Madonna cone bra.

 

Yes. It looks like she's got a pair of rockets in her shirt. And when I saw her naked in the Blackwall scene, I started laughing. Those were porn star boobs that defied gravity. It's not a dealbreaker for me, I don't care, but it can be distracting in her casual Skyhold attire sometimes. The Legion of the Dead armor will flatten the chest nicely. =p



#2750
HuldraDancer

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Yes. It looks like she's got a pair of rockets in her shirt. And when I saw her naked in the Blackwall scene, I started laughing. Those were porn star boobs that defied gravity. It's not a dealbreaker for me, I don't care, but it can be distracting in her casual Skyhold attire sometimes. The Legion of the Dead armor will flatten the chest nicely. =p

 

I thought the same thing when I saw mine with Iron Bull if it wasn't the causal wear I really wouldn't be bugged by it tbh. As for the bolded where it is where I can I find it because that is something I very much want and need for my lovely dwarfs <3