Yeah, that's a problem if the darkspawn get such a '' intelligence '' the free will, whatever it is, we know that there will be a problem for the dwarves, as the darkspawn will cry all the deep routes to them.
True, but I don't doubt the Architect. He has good intention I'm sure.
True, but I don't doubt the Architect.
I do not doubt the architect until he regains his memory (if the theories are concrete) If something happens like that, how do you solve the problem? That could end up like Israel.
We fight intelligent enemies everyday, but that doesn't mean we can't win. I'm hoping for the best, which is all we can really do on this situation. He sound genuine to me, and didn't really seem like he had something sneaky up his sleeves. The darkspawn are his people, and he just doesn't want to see them get slaughter, just like any other races wouldn't want. We can hold grudges, but all that does is cause more destruction around us, even for the people who aren't involved.
Well, my friend. Optimism is always good for morale, alas, in the reality waging war or fight to survive is not that simple. He's either genuine or a very good liar, but I'm still skeptical and wouldn't trust him so easily, especially after he kidnap me, and wardens for experiment. Of course, who would want to see his own kind slaughtered, but we don't know if he has an ulterior motive or ingenious plans up in his sleeves. Also the Architect doesn't seems to understand anything about other civilization at all. He may not be evil at all, but any growing community, in this case darkspawn community will look to expand their territory, and not to mention how darkspawn reproduce by kidnapping female of other races and turn them into Brood Mother, and how easily it is for people to contact with the Taint. Should darkspawn under the Architect decide to live close to other civilizations or increasing their own number. We lived in the world where conflict is a part of it.
If it is equal to the Corypheus, will say the same thing I said to my dwarf character '' The dwarves have always been in the boots of Tevinter '' something. Let's see if it will recover the memory to repent 
There is reason to be skeptical of the deal, but I think the whole "Intelligently led Blight by Archdemon and Disciples" isn't one of them, since the Architect wrote down that he should've killed Urthemiel while it slept instead.
Part of the problem with his Awakening was that when he tried it on the Mother, he failed to take into account how a human woman (or any of the Thedosian races) would react to the revelation that they were now a monstrosity. Worse, the only solace they had, a song that drowned out their recognition of everything going on around them, is gone as well.
It drove the Mother mad and she served as a poisonous influence within the Awakened Darkspawn. Without her, the Architect is free to teach his people of how freedom is good.
However there's still a lot of work that needs to be done.
There is always a reason to be skeptical about anything, especially in the deal with the Architect. Maybe, it wouldn't come to that. Yet he attempts to induce Grey Warden blood to Urthemiel, while it's easier to kill the Old God while it slept, and thus ensure that the main horde wouldn't find it awake it and corrupt it. Perhaps, he's too smart for his own good.
I think that's one of the big problems for the Architect, as he doesn't seems to understand how a normal living being would react to the revelation that they were mutilated, mutated and now a twisted monstrous being. He doesn't realize that if the only solace they had is gone, it would drive them crazy. I guess, he should learn that lesson by now (in case he's still alive. )
I doubt it'll be that easy even without the Mother. There'll always be a crazed darkspawn like the Mother if the Architect doesn't learn his lesson, and pull the same stunt again. Freedom is a good thing, but it cannot be forced upon anyone IMO, the Architect can try to teach any darkspawn he came across, but any free being still cannot live without purpose. Like I said before it could be good or bad, but I just didn't want to risk and gamble the entire Thedas. 
If it is equal to the Corypheus, will say the same thing I said to my dwarf character '' The dwarves have always been in the boots of Tevinter '' something. Let's see if it will recover the memory to repent
It has a lot to repent and pay for as it nearly cost the entire Dwarven civilization.
Sorry about double post.
I do not doubt the architect until he regains his memory (if the theories are concrete) If something happens like that, how do you solve the problem? That could end up like Israel.
He will still retain the new memories. He has already done his part in Dragon Age 2 with keeping the darkspawn back out of the deep roads, so that's how I know he has good intention.
Well, my friend. Optimism is always good for morale, alas, in the reality waging war or fight to survive is not that simple. He's either genuine or a very good liar, but I'm still skeptical and wouldn't trust him so easily, especially after he kidnap me, and wardens for experiment. Of course, who would want to see his own kind slaughtered, but we don't know if he has an ulterior motive or ingenious plans up in his sleeves. Also the Architect doesn't seems to understand anything about other civilization at all. He may not be evil at all, but any growing community, in this case darkspawn community will look to expand their territory, and not to mention how darkspawn reproduce by kidnapping female of other races and turn them into Brood Mother, and how easily it is for people to contact with the Taint. Should darkspawn under the Architect decide to live close to other civilizations or increasing their own number. We lived in the world where conflict is a part of it.
Look at my above post.
He will still retain the new memories. He has already done his part in Dragon Age 2 with keeping the darkspawn back out of the deep roads, so that's how I know he has good intention.
Huh? How could you know he will always retain the new memories forever. I don't think that's ever happened (at least in my game) since the Wardens expedition to the Deep Roads still fact heavy resistance, and most wardens or people on the expedition were killed. The Wardens's allies (It's likely the Architect himself or one of his Disciples) either doesn't know or was lying from the start. Please tell me when Nate mention the Architect help keeping the darkspawn back out of the Deep Roads.
Hawke: It looks like you met heavy resistance.
Nathaniel: After the Warden-Commander spare the Architect. We've thought the ensuing struggle among the Darkspawn might make the Deep Roads safer. The Wardens's allies assure these tunnels would be mostly clear, but it seems they were wrong.
What brought you to that conclusion?
It's the Blight; a plague; a disease; a cancer and it's killing her, The Stone. It's killing our planet by simply being here. It doesn't belong here and it won't leave. So if the Blight; the darkspawn; the Architect; the children are unwilling to scitter on back to whatever extra-dimensional shithole they crawled out of I will purge their filth with fire and steel. Because this is my planet and I am merely an instrument of her will. She just happens to be a vindictive ****** when she's cornered.
There is always a reason to be skeptical about anything, especially in the deal with the Architect. Maybe, it wouldn't come to that. Yet he attempts to induce Grey Warden blood to Urthemiel, while it's easier to kill the Old God while it slept, and thus ensure that the main horde wouldn't find it awake it and corrupt it. Perhaps, he's too smart for his own good.
I think that's one of the big problems for the Architect, as he doesn't seems to understand how a normal living being would react to the revelation that they were mutilated, mutated and now a twisted monstrous being. He doesn't realize that if the only solace they had is gone, it would drive them crazy. I guess, he should learn that lesson by now (in case he's still alive.
I doubt it'll be that easy even without the Mother. There'll always be a crazed darkspawn like the Mother if the Architect doesn't learn his lesson, and pull the same stunt again. Freedom is a good thing, but it cannot be forced upon anyone IMO, the Architect can try to teach any darkspawn he came across, but any free being still cannot live without purpose. Like I said before it could be good or bad, but I just didn't want to risk and gamble the entire Thedas.
I don't know if I'd say it's "easier". He's one Darkspawn. If he'd attacked it, the Old God probably would've woken up and started attacking him. That he was able to approach it at all without his very presence tainting it is nothing short of remarkable. That he, in hindsight, recognizes that he should've attempted to kill it is also a mark in his favor.
It's a good mindset, even if the chances of it succeeding would probably not work.
And I can't fault him for using the Reverse Joining on Urthemiel either. It made logical sense. The Old Gods serve as the source of the Call. The Reverse Joining was able to free Darkspawn from it. Who's to say it, at that moment, couldn't have had the same effect on the Old God or have done what he had hoped? Unraveling the compulsion from a source.
It failed, but it was still worth a shot.
I'm sure he does recognize it now. The only Awakened Broodmother that ever exists is the Mother (that we know of. For all we know one of Corypheus' drinking buddies was a woman and when she came back she was twisted differently then they were and is similar to a broodmother) and he recognizes now how that ended badly. I doubt he'd seek to try it again.
Oh I never said it would be easy. It's just easier without her influence. But without her, any crazed Darkspawn that might try to repeat things will probably be outnumbered and easily disposed of.
And it's easy to say freedom can't be forced on people, but the fact of the matter is the Darkspawn as they are have no freedom. They are mindless and bound to the will of the Old Gods. This way, they can gain freedom. And of course, the Messenger used his freedom to help people. Shame he keeps tainting people despite that, but it's worth pointing out the Architect promised Armaas protection from the Blight.
Well, my friend. Optimism is always good for morale, alas, in the reality waging war or fight to survive is not that simple. He's either genuine or a very good liar, but I'm still skeptical and wouldn't trust him so easily, especially after he kidnap me, and wardens for experiment. Of course, who would want to see his own kind slaughtered, but we don't know if he has an ulterior motive or ingenious plans up in his sleeves. Also the Architect doesn't seems to understand anything about other civilization at all. He may not be evil at all, but any growing community, in this case darkspawn community will look to expand their territory, and not to mention how darkspawn reproduce by kidnapping female of other races and turn them into Brood Mother, and how easily it is for people to contact with the Taint. Should darkspawn under the Architect decide to live close to other civilizations or increasing their own number. We lived in the world where conflict is a part of it.
Architect is just a monster and needs to be put down like one. There is no "his kind" as we know it, just a perverse mutated creatures oozing deadly goo. Architects plan is to spread the taint all over the world which alone should be enough to crush him. If anyone would actually consider those creepy monsters worth noticing.
To the sword with him, and burn the rest to be sure.
I don't know if I'd say it's "easier". He's one Darkspawn. If he'd attacked it, the Old God probably would've woken up and started attacking him. That he was able to approach it at all without his very presence tainting it is nothing short of remarkable. That he, in hindsight, recognizes that he should've attempted to kill it is also a mark in his favor.
It's a good mindset, even if the chances of it succeeding would probably not work.
And I can't fault him for using the Reverse Joining on Urthemiel either. It made logical sense. The Old Gods serve as the source of the Call. The Reverse Joining was able to free Darkspawn from it. Who's to say it, at that moment, couldn't have had the same effect on the Old God or have done what he had hoped? Unraveling the compulsion from a source.
It failed, but it was still worth a shot.
I'm sure he does recognize it now. The only Awakened Broodmother that ever exists is the Mother (that we know of. For all we know one of Corypheus' drinking buddies was a woman and when she came back she was twisted differently then they were and is similar to a broodmother) and he recognizes now how that ended badly. I doubt he'd seek to try it again.
Oh I never said it would be easy. It's just easier without her influence. But without her, any crazed Darkspawn that might try to repeat things will probably be outnumbered and easily disposed of.
And it's easy to say freedom can't be forced on people, but the fact of the matter is the Darkspawn as they are have no freedom. They are mindless and bound to the will of the Old Gods. This way, they can gain freedom. And of course, the Messenger used his freedom to help people. Shame he keeps tainting people despite that, but it's worth pointing out the Architect promised Armaas protection from the Blight.
Perhaps, it's not the right word either, but it's less risky since you wouldn't have to deal with the unknown consequences. He's also one of the ancient magister who break into the Black City (In case you believe that theory), and yes, he's a darkspawn, one darkspawn but he's different and he's certainly a powerful being. If Urthemiel woke up and attacking him. He might defeat it, or he might have been killed. We'll never know the result of the fight between them. Well, maybe it's because any Darkspawn must do something to corrupt the Old Gods, and to simply being near it wouldn't tainting the very powerful being like the Old Gods. It took one to make a mistake in the first place, to realize that they should have done otherwise. I don't see how this mark in his favor.
Yet he's absent during the Fifth Blight, when the darkspawn horde ravaging Ferelden, when his people got slaughtered on the surface. You could say that he figure if he was killed, it wouldn't help his people, but If he has a good mindset or responsible, he would have tried to prevent his people from going to the surface, or fix the whole thing from in the shadow. Not hiding in the dark, and thinking he should have done otherwise.
Hmm, valid point. While it made logical choice, the result is unknown and the idea that the Reverse Joining will work on the Old Gods is just his assumption. It could have the same effect, and it could be otherwise. He's just risking it, and gamble whether it'll work or it'll end up tainting Urthemiel. Now he knows that reverse joining end up corrupting the Old Gods.
Yes, and the result is a lot larger than he expected, and he couldn't control it. If he's continuing to pull the same stunt on Razikale or Lusacan, and it started the Blight. Do you still believe it's worth a shot?
Perhaps, we wouldn't know more until the Architect or his Disciples play their part again. Well, the Mother is the only known awakened broodmother. I'm skeptical there is only one awakened broodmother or darkspawn that stand against the Architect, because in case you spare him the Wardens seems to counting on the ensuing struggle among the darkspawn (as said by Nathaniel when you meet him in DA2). At least, we know the Architect's goal are against the Old Gods, and the main horde. Good point, but I also doubt anything will stop him from trying the same thing again. Imagine if he was desperate, I know I may be biased, but I wouldn't count on event that certain to happen, anything could happen and anything could change.
Yes, but you think it'll be easy without the Mother's influence, and how did you know the Architect and his followers will outnumber darkspawn who weren't follow him. What you said is a conjecture, and I believe a solid evidence is require and for all we know It could be the opposite.
I meant if you forced something on someone it might not always turned out good. We already see that example, the Mother. We hardly know anything about the Messenger, and he may use his freedom to help people only to adapt himself to lives in the surface, or he turns that into his new purpose. Well, he's a darkspawn, and the Taint is always within him so there's no way he can keep other people from contacting with the Taint when he's near them. I don't think he intended it to happen, but that's further proving that the darkspawn and other races cannot live together. I'm pretty sure the Architect probably uses a spell or some method to shield Armass from contacting with the Taint, and we don't know that Architect's protection is permanent, it may be temporary but most of us probably recruit Armass before he's tainted, and we never heard anything about Armass again so he may be alive and well, or a ghoul now.
Well, at this point, let's just agree to disagree. You make a couple good points, but we both know that we'll stand firmly to our own opinion. I'm not looking to prove anything here, or convince people to believe me. I merely expressing my own opinion and a counterpoint. 
Fair enough, we can agree to disagree. The nature of the choice is such that there are compelling arguments for both sides. Personally, I'm just upset that it isn't even being utilized to its full potential in the games and has been dropped off the face of the map. The Architect as an ally against Corypheus -- whether for noble intentions or for more selfish intentions -- was something that needed to happen. Cory had control over the Darkspawn yet he doesn't really use them as an asset of his. If he had, the Architect could've been a thorn in his side and there'd be a second Darkspawn Civil War.
Hell, having the Architect investigate Red Lyrium would've been amazeballs.
Though I do want to address a couple things:
Yet he's absent during the Fifth Blight, when the darkspawn horde ravaging Ferelden, when his people got slaughtered on the surface. You could say that he figure if he was killed, it wouldn't help his people, but If he has a good mindset or responsible, he would have tried to prevent his people from going to the surface, or fix the whole thing from in the shadow. Not hiding in the dark, and thinking he should have done otherwise.
We actually don't know what he was doing during the Blight. All we know is that he started it accidentally and popped up on the radar afterwards. What happened between then with him is a mystery.
I choose to believe he might have been running interference against the Archdemon, but that's purely headcanon.
Yes, and the result is a lot larger than he expected, and he couldn't control it. If he's continuing to pull the same stunt on Razikale or Lusacan, and it started the Blight. Do you still believe it's worth a shot?
If he has refined the Reverse Joining somehow, maybe. But even then, I'd be more on the side of "Just guide the Grey Wardens down to the other Old Gods' locations" rather then "I've altered it somewhat. Now all that remains is FOR SCIENCE!!!!"
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As an aside, I may have to hold off on finishing up the first iteration of Xanthos' story (certainly, Orzammar will wait until last, because it works best considering Mardy). Aside from the fact that I want the other origin stories as companions for him (which necessitates creating a mod, and the DA toolset seems to not want to work for me) I also need to find a way to mod A Paragon of Her Kind so that he can take the throne in the true sense -- meaning new dialogue options, him being swapped in during the crowning ceremony, etc.
I've given it a lot of thought over the last two years how it would happen using Orzammar's cultural/historical/societal stuff to justify it and a few more things hit me today, but just putting Xanthos in the crown through console commands and leaving it at that makes me feel sad.
Or I'll just take screenies and spam the hell out of this thread with a few little drabbles. I dunno.
It's great reading so many well thought answers on the subject of the Architect and his deal and the potential aftermath of it whether you take it or not.
My two dwarf wardens both took the deal, hoping it would help their people.
It may not have been the right decision, but that's part of the reason why I like making it with them. Sometimes in trying to do the right thing you make the wrong choices. They were motivated by wanting to help their people. And it's somewhat interesting that its a darkspawn who offers to help them while it seems much of the human nations continue to ignore them (despite Origins end game slides and personal headcanon)
Thanks again for the tremendous response. It's great to find places to discuss the game/lore without the petty arguments and childish bickering.
Well ok. I guess we all will agree to disagree.
Signal cool pictures of Cespar Cadash
Kneeling down to the Kissy Kiss Face:
Dodging kids like:
This is how I hold all the power:
So much love in one picture:
Seems safe enough to drink from:
May I?:
Fused with the well's stuff :
Cadash all geared out (final armor):
I don't even know…: 
Well ok. I guess we all will agree to disagree.
Signal cool pictures of Cespar Cadash
Dodging kids like:
Spoiler
I laughed at this shot more than I should.
Well done, my friend. I enjoy the series of picture.
I laughed at this shot more than I should.
Well done, my friend. I enjoy the series of picture.
Thank you! Cue your line, Varric!
"I'm but a humble servant." - Varric T.
Wow, that was perfect timing with the jump! And d'aww with the dance request, that was really sweet. You know, those shoulders look much better on a dwarf male than female. I thought they overwhelmed my Cadash, but the male shoulders are very broad so that definitely worked out well.
I love the dance scene, well except when they make me as tall as Cassandra! I'm lucky to have the videos of all these scenes. This is my first time actually discovering these shoulder pads, and I just love them more than I should. I think it's the same with the inquisitor's helmet, because it don't look as good on a elf and dwarf than the human.
Marni Cadash went to the Winter Palace. At first the nobles thought a dwarven Herald of Andraste was ridiculous, but she'd charmed the pants off them by the end of the night, exposed the duchess' crimes in front of the whole court like a badass, and stolen everything that wasn't nailed down.
I also got this lovely bit of dwarf-specific dialogue from Cassandra: "Are all dwarves such comedians, or is it just you and Varric?"
So I've, ah, written something else. Inspiration striking and all. It's longer this time. Also don't read if you haven't finished Blackwall personal's quest yet. Spoilers.
Spoiler
Well done! Very inspirational, and warms the heart. I don't think there are many dwarven and their love interest out there. So thank you for this! 
Well done! Very inspirational, and warms the heart. I don't think there are many dwarven and their love interest out there. So thank you for this!
Too true! I'd love to see more dwarven fanfic.
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