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#6726
Bayonet Hipshot

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Sandal probably got exposed to Pure (Wellspring) Lyrium, somehow. That means he's probably a Sha-Brytol Mage/Shaper.

 

I think that Sandal was born a Sha-Brytol. When his Shaper abilities kicked in, he gained intelligence. However, he didn't have anyone around to teach him anything beyond what a generic Sha-Brytol would know. He could drink Lyrium from his Wellspring, and knew how to take care of himself... but not much else.

 

The Titan probably taught him to control his Magic (Not Enchantment), and how Runecraft (Enchantment!) worked. But, he didn't have anyone to teach him how to talk or be a person because there were no other people Dwarves around, just Sha-Brytol Drones tapped into the Hive-Mind.

 

Eventually, for some reason, Sandal left his Titan. Sandal then "Not Enchantment"-ed every Darkspawn he ran into until he found Bodahn. Bodahn was probably the first Person that Sandal ever met. The only other things he had known were Sha-Brytol and his Titan... and neither were really people. They were just Drones and an being whose mind was inherently alien.

 

This explains why Sandal looks like he has a Developmental Disorder. It's not because there's anything wrong with him, either because of birth defect or later injury; it's because he had literally never met another person until he found Bodahn.


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#6727
Andreas Amell

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Just a reminder, for those who think dwarves are too short to be agile and quick - world class female gymnasts are VERY short, and I believe (less certain) that male gymnasts are shorter than average. Height is a disadvantage in the sport requiring the most flexibility and agility.

These fantasy dwarves aren't supposed to be like real dwarves, anymore than it represents the abilities of real people. Fantasy dwarves are much stronger and stockier.



#6728
Andreas Amell

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Sandal probably got exposed to Pure (Wellspring) Lyrium, somehow. That means he's probably a Sha-Brytol Mage/Shaper.

 

I think that Sandal was born a Sha-Brytol. When his Shaper abilities kicked in, he gained intelligence. However, he didn't have anyone around to teach him anything beyond what a generic Sha-Brytol would know. He could drink Lyrium from his Wellspring, and knew how to take care of himself... but not much else.

 

The Titan probably taught him to control his Magic (Not Enchantment), and how Runecraft (Enchantment!) worked. But, he didn't have anyone to teach him how to talk or be a person because there were no other people Dwarves around, just Sha-Brytol Drones tapped into the Hive-Mind.

 

Eventually, for some reason, Sandal left his Titan. Sandal then "Not Enchantment"-ed every Darkspawn he ran into until he found Bodahn. Bodahn was probably the first Person that Sandal ever met. The only other things he had known were Sha-Brytol and his Titan... and neither were really people. They were just Drones and an being whose mind was inherently alien.

 

This explains why Sandal looks like he has a Developmental Disorder. It's not because there's anything wrong with him, either because of birth defect or later injury; it's because he had literally never met another person until he found Bodahn.

 

I still think the ancient dwarves were part of a hive mind, until the Titans went to sleep. 

 

I thought Bodahn found Sandal when he was a still a baby. How old was he? 



#6729
Andreas Amell

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Even though I still haven't finished the DLC yet -- for some reason Inquisition keeps crashing to my desktop every time I try to load a save. Seriously WTF is wrong with this game? -- and despite it having a good chunk of narrative problems for me, this DLC will probably be my favorite out of them all.

 

I know many have been suffering problems with this DLC. I couldn't get into the Descent after opening it at the War Table.It just froze during the screen load.

 

But here's something I tried that seemed to work:

 

Pump up your vitural memory. It was slow processing for me, but it grinded on through to the game. i had to wait over a minute but it stopped freezing up. And I re-enter anywhere in Thedas. I haven't tried it for my other characters yet, but I'm hopeful. 

 

FYI: I raised it to a ridiculous level. And my system is well within the recommended specs. 



#6730
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This DLC does answer one question I had. The Lyrium the Templars drink connect them with something older, just like the Dwarves', this is roughly what Cole said and now we know to what. The Titans are the source of the Templars powers, not the Maker as the Chantry had them believe, the Stone can remove magic.


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#6731
TEWR

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I still think the ancient dwarves were part of a hive mind, until the Titans went to sleep. 

 

I thought Bodahn found Sandal when he was a still a baby. How old was he? 

 

That would actually explain a lot. It would go to why the Elves of old viewed the Dwarves as witless and soulless and would also explain why Darkspawn have a hive mind as well if a corrupted Titan churned out the first Genlocks. They may have had a limited sense of self and consciousness, given the architecture they ended up crafting, but overall may have been part of a greater body.

 

After all, when Dagna tapped into the Titan, she "thought all the thoughts", where her thought was every thought of the Dwarven race -- not in the sense that her thoughts were theirs, but that she could read their thoughts as her own.



#6732
SgtSteel91

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This DLC does answer one question I had. The Lyrium the Templars drink connect them with something older, just like the Dwarves', this is roughly what Cole said and now we know to what. The Titans are the source of the Templars powers, not the Maker as the Chantry had them believe, the Stone can remove magic.

 

But it can also empower or grant Magic (or something like it) to Mages and Dwarves? Maybe it's versatile? Or how the Templars use it? I remember Solas or Cole explain that Templar powers impose order where the Mage could distort/change it by preventing the Mage from channelling the energies of the Fade. Didn't they say something like the song in them reaches out and that drowns out anyone from channelling the Fade?



#6733
SgtSteel91

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Before I got to the end of the dlc I thought the big thing was that the Titan woke up and started the tremors because of all of the lyrium mining and it was starting to endanger it, like loosing too much blood can kill you. And a big choice was whether to let the mining continue and possibly kill the Titian or stop mining lyrium and let the Titian recover. I was surprised (and a little relieved) when it turned out it was spooked by the Breach and it was cool with us taking its blood.



#6734
TEWR

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But it can also empower or grant Magic (or something like it) to Mages and Dwarves? Maybe it's versatile? Or how the Templars use it? I remember Solas or Cole explain that Templar powers impose order where the Mage could distort/change it by preventing the Mage from channelling the energies of the Fade. Didn't they say something like the song in them reaches out and that drowns out anyone from channelling the Fade?

 

Templar abilities are themselves a form of magic, one that reinforces reality. A mage draws upon the Fade and brings it into the world to reshape it, while a Templar disrupts this act and distances the mage from it all.

 

It's a Solas/Cassandra banter, in fact, that delves into this. She asks him what it feels like for a Templar to do their Templar-y things to a Mage.


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#6735
SgtSteel91

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Templar abilities are themselves a form of magic, one that reinforces reality. A mage draws upon the Fade and brings it into the world to reshape it, while a Templar disrupts this act and distances the mage from it all.

 

It's a Solas/Cassandra banter, in fact, that delves into this. She asks him what it feels like for a Templar to do their Templar-y things to a Mage.

 

Yeah, I remember you can ask Cullen if Templar abilities are like Magic and while he says it's not I starting to think it's a kind of Magic that's just very different from what Mages do.



#6736
SgtSteel91

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Something else that's on my mind: what were those Sha-Brytol Bolters using? Were they multi-barrel crossbows with lyrium-laced bolts or the closest thing Thedas has to a flintlock rifle? Even if it's the former that was powerful enough to punch a hole through a Legionnaire's armor, I kind of wanted to take one and have Dagna study it and make some for my troops. Maybe that would give the Qunari and their cannons some pause about invading.


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#6737
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From Reddit:

 

 

Insights and subsequent questions and speculations:

 

(1) Pertaining to a relevant excerpt from The Calling: Maric (quoting the Chant to Fiona): "'Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls. From these emerald waters doth life begin anew.'" (...irrelevant text...) Maric: "It's where Andraste goes to speak to the Maker for the first time. It's where she convinces him to forgive mankind. It was supposed to be this beautiful temple deep under the earth surrounded by emerald waters." We just found a beautiful "temple" deep under the earth surrounded by sapphire waters. Titans shape the world. The Maker could be the Chant's misunderstanding of a Titan. In which case, how the heck did Andraste find it? Maybe if she were (possessed by) Mythal she'd know about it. But why go there, and how?

 

(2) Valta says she'll be just fine and can defend herself down there. Reminds me of Sandal's mysterious self-defense abilities. Sandal may be Titan-touched like her, perhaps a runaway from a Sha-Brytol thaig or temple. Shall we call them "Shapers"? Also see this excerpt from the ancient elven script the OP references, "Their workers scurry, witless, soulless." If all ancient Titan-dwarves were like Sandal, evil power-hungry elves might depersonalize them that way to rationalize killing them and taking some sort of power from the Titans.

 

(3) Templars gain their abilities from titan blood. It lets them block magic. Cole says in dialogue it feels like they're calling to something that gets in the way of the magic. Valta says her abilities aren't magic. I think Templars wield a crude version of Shaper powers. And I think Titan powers are somehow in opposition to magic. Maybe Titans give the world definition through a world-spanning anti-magic field? Keep it from being like the Fade? That could be what the Veil is - the Titan-maintained anti-magic field that stabilizes reality. Cullen says that Templars could close the breach by strengthening the Veil.

 

(4) The Sha-Brytol resemble golems. Bonded into their suits, infused with Lyrium. Empty armor suits found next to a pool of Lyrium. (Source: “Sha-Brytol” codex entry, not yet in wiki.) This seems to parallel Caridin's golems, but more refined. Probably work by the same mechanism - dwarf thoughts/minds can apparently be sort of uploaded to Lyrium. I wonder if Caridin rediscovered that art on his own, or knew something about the Sha-Brytol.

 

(5) See codex entry on the Gangue. It describes the Legion of the Dead as responsible for protecting the encircling stone from an inherent corruption. Three insights here. First, that corruption is likely the Blight. Second, the encircling stone is likely a Titan. Third, though this is a long shot, I have a hunch that the special mention of “fully adorned” doesn’t refer to just donning a full suit of Legion armor, but rather to being bonded into Sha-Brytol armor. I suspect the Legion is somehow descended from the practices and responsibilities of the Sha-Brytol. The funeral upon joining would be reasonable if you were about to undergo that suit-bonding process. Otherwise it just seems random and unnecessarily sacrificial.

 

(6) Wild speculation: I wonder if Thedas undergoes a natural cycle wherein the surface is sterilized and later repopulated from underground, with Titans serving as arks. Maybe some sort of astronomical disaster, or a cycle mediated by the Titans themselves. Maybe they produce the Blight at some point in their life cycle to erase the surface, then repopulate it with the life they contain (create?) in their voids. The way Solas tells the Warden ally "One does not smugly outwit a Blight" makes me think it's something beyond even the ancient Elves, and which predated them. Maybe they tried to kill off the Titans to interrupt the cycle and prevent their number from coming up. Maybe the Promisers want to restore that long-overdue cycle.

 

(7) If the Sha-Brytol and the Shapers (Valta) are the "Pure", then what's their relationship to the Profane?

 

 

 

What do you all think ?


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#6738
SgtSteel91

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Point 6 sounds like it's getting real close to a Mass Effect/Reaper cycle.

 

But I like that connection between the Sha-Brytol, Golems, and Legion of the Dead. They really do sound similar, even the Inquisitor makes a comparison between Sha-Brytol and the Legion.


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#6739
Tishina

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These fantasy dwarves aren't supposed to be like real dwarves, anymore than it represents the abilities of real people. Fantasy dwarves are much stronger and stockier.

And I wish female dwarves still were stockier and stronger, sigh. However, my point was that being short is an advantage as far as agility goes, and that's got to do with physics, etc.



#6740
Andreas Amell

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But it can also empower or grant Magic (or something like it) to Mages and Dwarves? Maybe it's versatile? Or how the Templars use it? I remember Solas or Cole explain that Templar powers impose order where the Mage could distort/change it by preventing the Mage from channelling the energies of the Fade. Didn't they say something like the song in them reaches out and that drowns out anyone from channelling the Fade?

That reminds me of a conversation that Solas had with Varric. Varric says dwarven stories explain the way things are, while human stories are about how they wish things were.

 

It's possible that dwarven society's strict adherence to the caste system originates to its connection with the Titans. If so, I dare guess the ancient Elves were guilty of how things have developed this way because they were using magic for all sorts of things. It's possible the ancient elves had an old animosity against the ancient dwarves because they were so powerful with the Titans. The use of eluvians and no interconnecting road system would be supported by the constant shaping of the land by the Titans. But I doubt there was a war between them and the ancient dwarves. 



#6741
Gilsa

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Something else that's on my mind: what were those Sha-Brytol Bolters using? Were they multi-barrel crossbows with lyrium-laced bolts or the closest thing Thedas has to a flintlock rifle? Even if it's the former that was powerful enough to punch a hole through a Legionnaire's armor, I kind of wanted to take one and have Dagna study it and make some for my troops. Maybe that would give the Qunari and their cannons some pause about invading.

 

Bolts. If you choose the "Their weapons are powerful," this is the resulting dialogue:

 

Spoiler


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#6742
Joe25

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From Reddit:

 

 

 

What do you all think ?

 

Spoiler
   


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#6743
TEWR

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It is a fact that before the Magisters entered the Golden City, there were no mentions of Darkspawn on the surface or beneath. Technically, it is possible they had existed before but what you are suggesting is that the Magisters just happened to contract the Blight in the Fade in a manner that left them unique amidst all other Tainted creatures just as the Darkspawn finally had numbers to threaten everything. By random chance?

 

Yes, there is Red Lyrium in the PT and yes, the records are that the Darkspawn came from the below.

And Corypheus is practically made of Red Lyrium and the Chant claims that the Magisters burrowed the earth after their fall from Grace.

 

It is more likely they found the PT, corrupted the lyrium there and the women became the first Broodmothers. The Lyrum Idol may have even have been carved by one of the Magisters.

 

Regardless of the truth, in universe the people of Thedas are not privy to all the details that we are. In the mission involving the Kal-Sharok dwarves, they believe that Corypheus brought the Blight. Logically, those from Orzammar would believe it too.



 

 

Corypheus actually only has red lyrium grafted onto his person in Inquisition, as a result of Bianca contacting him and him discovering it bears the taint and thus allows him to use it as fuel for his spells along with the whole 'power of the Blight' thing. Look at his Legacy rendition. It's absent.

 

Remember, the Magisters of old were reputed to have used the blood of countless slaves and 2/3 of the lyrium they had to breach the Fade, but it's clear that it happened in their homeland (see the note on the Claws of Dumat. It takes place in Sethius' home).

 

It's also a fact that a kossith settlement in the south of the Korcari Wilds fell prey to the Darkspawn before the Magisters entered the Golden City by about 20 or so years. Which is pretty clear that the Magisters are not the first Darkspawn, merely the first Awakened Darkspawn. And with my theory on page 269 that the Darkspawn are the result of a corrupted Titan -- since Genlocks were the first ones noted to be seen -- it would explain a lot. 

 

And no, those from Orzammar don't believe it. As one example, you have Shaper Czibor's entries on the matter saying it's all a load of BS.

 

Why would Cory have discovered the PT then only to have to be told about it again, when no Darkspawn has ever set foot in there?

 

Hell, you'd have to explain to me how in the same year the Magisters invaded Dumat got tainted when it takes the Darkspawn centuries to find one through tunneling efforts.



#6744
SgtSteel91

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What do you think of the "Scaled Ones" from the Chronicles of a Forgotten War codex? I leaning on them being the the first Darkspawn, before the Blight corrupted them so thoroughly they look like what they do now.



#6745
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What do you think of the "Scaled Ones" from the Chronicles of a Forgotten War codex? I leaning on them being the the first Darkspawn, before the Blight corrupted them so thoroughly they look like what they do now.

 

The scaled ones are most likely Proto-Kosstih or Kossith or Ancient Kossith. They used blood magic and dragon blood to turn themselves into Qunari. That or they were forcibly turned into Qunari via blood magic and dragon blood by ancient Tevinters or ancient Elves.



#6746
Bayonet Hipshot

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What do you think of the "Scaled Ones" from the Chronicles of a Forgotten War codex? I leaning on them being the the first Darkspawn, before the Blight corrupted them so thoroughly they look like what they do now.

 

The scaled ones are most likely Proto-Kosstih or Kossith or Ancient Kossith. They used blood magic and dragon blood to turn themselves into Qunari. That or they were forcibly turned into Qunari via blood magic and dragon blood by ancient Tevinters or ancient Elves.


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#6747
Tishina

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Corypheus actually only has red lyrium grafted onto his person in Inquisition, as a result of Bianca contacting him and him discovering it bears the taint and thus allows him to use it as fuel for his spells along with the whole 'power of the Blight' thing. Look at his Legacy rendition. It's absent.

 

Remember, the Magisters of old were reputed to have used the blood of countless slaves and 2/3 of the lyrium they had to breach the Fade, but it's clear that it happened in their homeland (see the note on the Claws of Dumat. It takes place in Sethius' home).

 

It's also a fact that a kossith settlement in the south of the Korcari Wilds fell prey to the Darkspawn before the Magisters entered the Golden City by about 20 or so years. Which is pretty clear that the Magisters are not the first Darkspawn, merely the first Awakened Darkspawn. And with my theory on page 269 that the Darkspawn are the result of a corrupted Titan -- since Genlocks were the first ones noted to be seen -- it would explain a lot. 

 

And no, those from Orzammar don't believe it. As one example, you have Shaper Czibor's entries on the matter saying it's all a load of BS.

 

Why would Cory have discovered the PT then only to have to be told about it again, when no Darkspawn has ever set foot in there?

 

Hell, you'd have to explain to me how in the same year the Magisters invaded Dumat got tainted when it takes the Darkspawn centuries to find one through tunneling efforts.

Don't confuse the modern national boundaries of Thedas with the ancient ones. Tevinter at that time controlled almost all of Thedas, so don't discount the possibility (though I don't think it likely myself) that the PT was involved - Tevinter may have claimed it if it was no longer under the control of the dwarves. I understand there may be some hints that ancient elves intruded under the surface, ancient Tevinter may have as well. But I don't think it's likely Cory had ever been there before since Bianca had to tell him about it. OTOH, I'd be cautious about taking Shaper entries as absolute fact - written records are one of the best ways to rewrite history and control people's ideas, even if just by being selective on what you include and what you exclude (besides, the devs could be intentionally trolling us with misleading information.)

 

I still think the answers are going to be complex and somehow tie in all the different threads of lore for the different groups (though I'm not certain they'll ever give us any clear, comprehensive answer since the mysteries of these stories are a lot of what drive the game.)


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#6748
SgtSteel91

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The scaled ones are most likely Proto-Kosstih or Kossith or Ancient Kossith. They used blood magic and dragon blood to turn themselves into Qunari. That or they were forcibly turned into Qunari via blood magic and dragon blood by ancient Tevinters or ancient Elves.

 

Oh yeah, that makes sense. Maybe they escaped Tevinter underground.



#6749
FrankWisdom

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Guys, I think we've been looking at it all wrong. We thought that the Old Elven Writing codex was referring to the Dwarves as the pillars of the earth, but with what the DLC told us, I think that's just wrong.

 

 

The Titans are the pillars of the earth, and the Dwarves are the workers who 'scurry, witless, soulless.'

 

What if the ancient Elves saw the Titans as a threat and waged a bloody campaign against them? The last time a Titan awoke was just before the fall of Arlathan. What if something happened that prompted a Titan to be corrupted, explaining Red Lyrium, and cut off the PT Dwarves? What if something happened that caused this corrupted Titan to churn out the first Genlocks, beings in the image of Dwarves, if it's true that the Dwarves are the Children of the Stone? For we have now learned that Titans are the Stone.

 

Perhaps the Titans are the Forgotten Ones, but if so, how did these beings come to be considered deities of plague, pestilence, famine, strife, and all the negative aspects? Especially when what they do doesn't seem that way? Wouldn't Malvernis be a better fit for one of the Forgotten Ones, being something that preyed upon the Dwarves and whose corruption was so potent he had to be locked away, for he ate all that was in his path?

 

The Darkspawn evidently hold a great deal of reverence and fear for the Primeval Thaig and the Forgotten Caverns/Bastion of the Pure/Wellspring. They don't dare tread on those grounds, but why? Why are these areas so immaculate, kept free of the Darkspawn taint?

 

Dagna was able to connect with the Titan, briefly, when she stared into a lyrium rune. Lyrium is the blood of the Titan, so it makes sense. She says that she felt like she was as tall as a mountain and that she was the mountain. Further, she was able to see the history of the Dwarves, something the Titan is intimately connected to.

 

Lyrium renders a Mage Tranquil by severing their connection to the Fade, but allows them to tap into an artistry that the Dwarves are able to do. So what is the connection? Do the Titans have some sort of effect on the Fade? The Breach did disrupt and terrify this particular Titan.

 

It's pointed out that no Titan would dare call to the Darkspawn, but the Darkspawn might still be able to tap into the song and hear it nonetheless. We know that lyrium sings, and red lyrium as well. The Darkspawn are drawn to a song, and with the notion that Red Lyrium is tainted, indicates that there is a blighted Titan somewhere out there. Perhaps the Old Gods sing a song that is akin to that of the Titans' song, or perhaps it's not truly the Old Gods singing at all but rather the Blighted Titan, directing its children towards the Old Gods? If so, would this account for why the Titans are the Forgotten Ones?

 

Andruil once ventured into the Void, a name that has been used many times in DA (most prominently to refer to the dark pits in the Fade) and forged an armor made from it, such that plague spread throughout her lands and her mental health suffered. But Mythal intervened and saved her. Would then this armor and power that stems from the Void not come from the Blight? The idea is pretty clear in that regard. If a Blighted Titan was at the heart of it all, perhaps that would explain why they were viewed as dangerous and needing to die. Perhaps after Andruil's encounter, some of the gods' followers felt it would be necessary to destroy the Dwarves and the Titans, for the world would die with them there.

 

And perhaps this helps explain the Civil War of the Elvhen Empire. Perhaps you had a group of Elven gods who did not want to wage war upon the Dwarves that they'd been historically trading with simply for what happened, when they might not know enough. And perhaps you had another group who were warmongers, and eventually this led to two main factions developing. This war would bring about the eventual collapse of Elvhenan and lead to Fen'Harel sealing away the Titans and the Elven Pantheon, believing that they needed to be kept safe from both themselves and their followers, along with feeling like there was too much wrong with the societies of the time that perhaps them being sealed away might be better.

 

This would also explain why a Titan has come about for the first time in millenia (remember, the last time one came around was near the fall of Elvhenan). The Breach disrupted the Veil that Solas created to such degree that one was able to awaken, but was so distraught by everything that it couldn't help but lash out.

 

And we have to account for a lot of other dialogue as well, from Cole or Solas or other people:

 

"You're quiet, but the old song still echoes inside, almost like Templars."

 

The Stone Sense is still within Varric despite how he's lived on the surface. All Dwarves can tap into it, but it becomes muted the further they are from the Stone, yet it lingers. Any Dwarf has it, for they're all Children of the Stone.

 

It seems that the Dwarves also had a proper connection with lyrium that allowed them some sort of magic, along with the earthshaker weapons that can both build up and demolish stone segments. This explains how the Primeval Thaig was perhaps built, and possibly even how the Rock Wraiths can be possessed by Demons -- as they end up being called Rock Wraith Abomination, and Abominations are only the result of Mages being possessed -- given that the Rock Wraiths utilize magic.

 

 

 

Further, we must consider the Anvil of the Void. As I've said countless times before, the workings that went into it are too unique for it to be made by one Dwarf. Lyrium is wound through it, intricately, and where else do we hear something along those lines? With the Sha-Brytol, who are fused with their armor.

 

The PT codex comes from a report that was sealed in the Orzammar archives by decree of one of their kings (Geldinblade). Given the logistics, it's impossible that any Dwarf scavenger could've gone from Orzammar to Kirkwall and back again, so this indicates that a PT rests somewhere around the Orzammar vicinity, which would explain the Anvil's history. Indeed, it's peculiar that no Golem is able to touch the Anvil (even though BW ended up breaking that by having Caridin forge the crown on it).

 

The Anvil has Spirit Forges within, that churn out those souls that were used in a Golem's creation. Perhaps they are the souls of fallen Golems rather then those of Golems themselves. We see the souls of the fallen or spectral memory imprints often in DAO, from our time exploring fallen Thaigs were the souls of dead Dwarves fight us -- perhaps they were unworthy of returning to the Stone? And their anger and bitterness has rendered them insane? -- while Kal-Hirol's ghosts lingered to show us the events of the battle. The Stone wanted those memories to survive, to be witnessed. The Titans wished for it to be seen.

 

Golems exist in the Primeval Thaig, suggesting that they are a relic from those days. If Red Lyrium is able to bypass the soul aspect to create golems -- as we see in the final battle with Meredith -- what does that mean for the Golems themselves? Is it a form the PT Dwarves considered sacred, a Dwarf bound in Stone and Lyrium and connected to the Titan for all of their days? Was it a form of service or servitude (for one must remember that upon awakening, Corypheus asks if we're "slaves then, to the Dwarves").

 

Interestingly, both Rock Wraiths and the Sha-Brytol sustain themselves on lyrium. But what marks the difference between the two? Do the Dwarves who eat lyrium and only lyrium die, but eventually become Rock Wraiths? Why are the Sha-Brytol and Rock Wraiths so different? One was met by the Legion close to Heidrun Thaig, but truly.... it confuses me.

 

Sorry, this is getting away from me. One moment I'm talking about a war that may or may not have happened between Elves and Dwarves, the next I'm delving too far into Dwarven history and lore. I'm like Dagna I guess.

You asked me to check out this thread and specifically your post on this page, so I'll oblige you. I'm in agreement with a couple of key things and others I'd contend are a bit off the mark in my opinion, though I'm glad someone else seems as enthusiastic as I am about the lore.

 

First off I don't think the ancient Elvhen were at war with the Titans during the fall of Arlathan. I think that due to Fen'Harel's machinations and rebellion, they had their hands full. I think he and Mythal were the ones who created the veil (with the use of the Elvhen Foci Orbs) in order to separate the spiritual and physical aspects of the Elvhen Pantheon, so no one could reach them (both to protect them and assure no one could restore/free them).

 

Yavanna from the Secret Grove Comics tells Alistair that "Your heart beats with the old blood, as well. Where do you think it comes from? It sings of a time when dragons ruled the skies. A time before the Veil, before the mysteries were forgotten. Can you hear it?"

 

The wording is interesting "Your blood sings". Blood that sings found within Dragon and Titan. She also talks about a "Queen of Dragons" that hears the song.... Interesting stuff and I have a lot to say about it :) Anyways, let's continue.

 

I believe Dragon's ruled the skies and Titan's ruled the earth (yeah that part seems pretty straight forward given Yavana's comments and what we now know about Titans).  (Elven Pantheon=Dragons, Dwarves=Titans). I believe they lived in harmony, aspects of the same coin. Both holding dominion over their respective Kingdoms. I believe the magic granted by the Titan's is primal, an antithesis to the magic found from the Fade and used by Elves. I don't mean anti-magic. I mean... different, like yin and yang or positive and negative attraction. I think that's why Templar's can "cancel out" a mage's magic.

 

I think the creation of the veil is what could have disrupted the symbiotic relationship that the Dwarves had with the Titans. I think this might have given them a taste of what individual thought feels like (freethinking) and they liked it. I also think that the song emanating from Titans and Titan's blood is what drives the darkspawn away.

 

I think it interferes with the calling. I also think that the song emanating from mined lyrium is an echo of the living, flowing song from pure "circulating" Titan's blood. I think of it as trace DNA or in simpler terms "dried up" Titan's blood which has no more connection to the Titan's, only an imprint of what was, like a memory. I believe that is why this mined lyrium can be infected by the blight. I have a hard time believing a Titan could be corrupted, but I'm not rejecting the notion outright.

 

What I think happened with red lyrium that's more likely is that once the Dwarves branched off from their brethren, chaos ensued. Think of it, their whole outlook on life would have changed. They would probably relish their freedom yet feel like something was missing, an emptiness where once there was a song, warmth and reassurance. Without the Titan symbiosis, I think Dwarves found different ways to cope, some better than others.

 

I believe that the profane for example are a product of this hardship

 

We who are forgotten, remember (forgotten by the Dwarves who stayed with the Titans)

 

We clawed at rock until our fingers bled, (they either wanted to rejoin their brethren, begging them to let them return to the stone or they wandered the deep roads and found themselves literally trapped or imprisoned)

 

What Valta described comes to mind "fell into a warm light's embrace", as if returning to the Stone.

 

We cried out for justice, but were unheard. (neither the Titans nor their brethren could hear them)
 

Our children wept in hunger, (literal)
 

And so we feasted upon the gods. (they feasted upon Titan's blood, without being part of them, which, I'm guessing, is blasphemy. It's also noted that they still rememeber the Titans, so this is very old indeed)

 

Here we wait, in aeons of silence. (silence, because they can't hear the song)

 

We few, we profane (based on their actions, they consider themselves profane, literally split from the "gods" "teachings" (in this case the hive mind or the empathic symbiosis they had with the Titans).

 

I think something similar happened with the Primeval Thaig. I believe that some Dwarves who separated from the Titans couldn't cope with the silence (the lack of Titan symbiosis). This drove them to look for an alternative. I believe Dumat called out and they heard. I think they willingly corrupted the lyrium and were in turn corrupted in order to hear the calling, something to fill the silence. Their connection to lyrium might have still been strong, stronger than it is with modern day Dwarves at the very least.  This is probably how red lyrium came to be. The Thaig might have been shaped with magic before it was corrupted also, keep that in mind. I don't have any details, but it seems like the most logical explanation in my mind.

 

I think the blight is a product of the Forgotten Ones. I think the Void is where the blight comes from. The effects it had on Andruil (in the legend) are too similar for me to dismiss them. I don't think The Forgotten Ones are the Titans however. If you read Geldauran's claim, then it is clear that someone with that type of philosophy is not a Titan. Besides, The Forgotten Ones seem too well informed and intimately related to the Elvhen pantheon in my opinion, to be the Titans. Beings who not only live in a different "Kingdom" but also seem to have very different ways of life. The Elvhen pantheon believed in Individuality, they all ruled over factions of their own priests and slaves while Titans, on the other hand, seem to be one with their people, a well-oiled machine.

 


 

Codex entry
Geldauran's Claim

 

There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.

 

I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.

 

 

I won't go into detail about the Golems. I'm kind of tired and you kind of trailed off there, but still a lot of cool stuff to talk about.

 

If you're interested in more check out my thread, that goes for anyone else on this thread that's interested. It has a bit of everything and is classified and numbered for easy access and navigation. Let me know what you think of my reply TEWR. Look forward to reading more.

 

http://forum.bioware...es-discussions/

 

 

 

 


  • Merela, Bayonet Hipshot, Tishina et 1 autre aiment ceci

#6750
Merela

Merela
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Ask the broody elf on Tumblr did a commission of the wedding portrait of Fjal' and Cass for me and it's perfect and adorable :wub: :

 

tumblr_nt6it1Mrwr1ryvh69o1_1280.png

 

tumblr_nt6it1Mrwr1ryvh69o2_540.png

 

Source: http://askbroodyelf....ing-portrait-of


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