7969 réponses à ce sujet

[Merela]

On the subject of Bianca, let's try not to start on a trend of dissing characters because there are always people who like the characters you don't. That's been one of the biggest things to cause threads to self-destruct or people to leave threads permanently. It's better to be polite because next time it might be one of your favorites, and this thread has generally been supportive of each other's interpretations of the characters even when you don't agree.

 

I don't particularly have feelings about Bianca one way or another, but I did have the impression that she chose to honor her family's wishes to marry someone else, not that she jilted Varric. You know, sacrificing love and her personal happiness for duty and family honor, etc.? Besides, if Varric doesn't blame her, why should anyone else feel they can judge her?

 

The truth has been spoken! Though I have to add, TWOT vol.2 actually reveals that it was Bogdan who was left alone by the altar while Bianca was attempting to elope with Varric. She has honored her family's wishes in the end, but at first she chose Vava. Not that it will change anybody's mind about the lady, but I do not like when a character is blamed for something that is not true.

[Tishina]

Well, I just wanted to answer the question why I don't like her, since it was asked. I'm often in favour of honour above love in stories (gets much too bad a rep these days), Arthurian style, but it's not like she actually did choose that, she and Varric are still in contact and he still calls her his girlfriend, so... yeah. No wonder he doesn't judge, the way she does it now benefits him, lol. Since she's not a real life person, I don't feel bad for "judging" her, I mainly judge the writing. Not ever discussing negative aspects of anything Bioware-related would be weird as well. That said, if anyone is a Bianca fan, I would never attack them for that, and I've had numerous people tell me good reasons why they dislike Varric, the Iron Bull, and so on, and it didn't lead to problems; hell, I can even see why some people like Tallis. So I do want to say that I am sorry if I offended anyone, but I didn't think there was anything particularly bad about discussing it.

My comments weren't aimed at anyone specific which is why I didn't quote anyone. I just thought a few of the comments across the board were skating close. People interpret interactions different ways; my point was actually that it's easy for someone to see what she did as self-sacrificing and honorable since she gave up the chance to marry Varric and be with him all the time. I'm not sure even with the non-game information that we really know enough to know the whole story. I tend to treat it as Varric and Bianca's business, so if they're OK with it, they're really the only two that matter (well, and her husband, but for all we know, he was no more enthusiastic than Bianca.)  I think they intended to write their relationship and Bianca herself as complex, but didn't give us enough content to build that.

 

My main interest is to remind people to at least state their opinions with respect for others' interpretations and likes. Since I don't actually care much about Bianca or even Varric, I certainly took no offense myself, but I also have no problem with them writing her as abrasive and cocky; I love Cassandra and Aveline, for instance, because they aren't written to fit either the sweet, kind-hearted good woman or the evil selfish b***h two-dimensional tropes. One of the things I like about how female dwarves are written in general is they are cocky and loud. Non-evil women NPCs don't have to be sweet or kind-hearted or any of the other qualities that are often simply symptoms of lazy, two-dimensional writing. Not that women can't be those things, but it doesn't take much to find a lot of writing, especially in games, where those two extremes are the only types of women and they have no dimension beyond that.

The truth has been spoken! Though I have to add, TWOT vol.2 actually reveals that it was Bogdan who was left alone by the altar while Bianca was attempting to elope with Varric. She has honored her family's wishes in the end, but at first she chose Vava. Not that it will change anybody's mind about the lady, but I do not like when a character is blamed for something that is not true.

That's what I thought, but I don't have a copy on me.

[Qun00]

Pragmatism.

As far as I understood it the "noble hunters" are encouraged, because the dwarves are on the brink of extinction and more kids are never wrong to remedy that. Even though it sounds pretty degrading to me, making pregnancy more "worthwile" by presenting the prospect of climbing the caste ladder is ensuring a rather steady number of pregnancies for the dwarves.

The noble gets free sex and possibly more sons to bolster the ranks of his House, while the noble hunter can rise to a better caste thanks to her son.

Even if the kid is "just a girl" it is still one additional dwarf to fight off the encroaching darkspawn hordes and buy the dwarven race some more time.

Ahh, right. I forget that one isn't done to the exclusion of another.

They have kids with the noble hunters AND their own wives. I do wonder if the upperclass women are okay with their husbands doing it, though.

[Wintersonne123]

Ah, thanks for pointing out that WoT2 entry, that clears some things up that Varric only alluded to in the game. Having read it, it... honestly makes me even more critical of both her and Varric and pretty much exacerbates all the problems I had with that, but I won't go into that now.

 

@Tishina, I also think that it was supposed to be quite complex, but... it wasn't the game for that. This would have worked better in a DA2 style setting with fewer companions and a more character-focused narrative (if one dares to ever suggest DA2 was anything but bad on a BW board... I honestly quite liked it). I certainly wouldn't want Varric's relationship troubles to take over DA:I, either, so, as I said, I'd have been happy if it just remained a mystery. And I still want to know why Gerav was ever involved in the process.

 

I also like Aveline (even with her dating mission ), next to Varric she's probably my favourite in DA2. Man, no wonder all my Hawkes were celibate! I just do not have a very good eye for which NPCs to fixate on. AVELINE, HAWKE AND YOU COULD HAVE BEEN AMAZING. But if I have to, I'll help you seduce your husband. *sniff*

 

I do, however, think that women characters need to be subjected to the same standards as male characters, and I don't like abrasive and cocky people, so I'm going to be cool towards characters with the same traits. However, if one looks mainly for a succesful female character, they certainly build her up to be that in WoT2. Now that I've read how much of a presence she and her husband seem to have in the Guild, I suppose Varric's refusal to ever go there (other than that he doesn't like kalna) makes a whole lot of sense.

[Tishina]

Ahh, right. I forget that one isn't done to the exclusion of another.

They have kids with the noble hunters AND their own wives.

I do wonder if the upperclass women are okay with their husbands doing it, though.

Different culture, different ideas of marriage and sex. Many dwarven nobles are in arranged marriages with no particular emotional attachment and no cultural shame attached to either situation. From the comments in the DN origin, the noble hunters have a strong preference for currently unmarried nobles when they start a relationship (one of them comments on Gorim's marital status based on his bracers,) so a prospective wife and her family would be aware there was a concubine and child already. The concubine might be part of the household, but would have very little status relative to the legal wife who would not only have status through the marriage but also through her own line of descent and her family connections and any status she earned on her own. Her children would be the legal ones and except in extreme cases, would be the ones that inherit. I think only if it was actually a romantic match would she really care. I think in that case, the noble hunter would either be considered a retired concubine, still with status through her son, or she'd find an unmarried member of that family to take up with instead.

[Tishina]

Ah, thanks for pointing out that WoT2 entry, that clears some things up that Varric only alluded to in the game. Having read it, it... honestly makes me even more critical of both her and Varric and pretty much exacerbates all the problems I had with that, but I won't go into that now.

 

@Tishina, I also think that it was supposed to be quite complex, but... it wasn't the game for that. This would have worked better in a DA2 style setting with fewer companions and a more character-focused narrative (if one dares to ever suggest DA2 was anything but bad on a BW board... I honestly quite liked it). I certainly wouldn't want Varric's relationship troubles to take over DA:I, either, so, as I said, I'd have been happy if it just remained a mystery. And I still want to know why Gerav was ever involved in the process.

 

I also like Aveline (even with her dating mission ), next to Varric she's probably my favourite in DA2. Man, no wonder all my Hawkes were celibate! I just do not have a very good eye for which NPCs to fixate on. AVELINE, HAWKE AND YOU COULD HAVE BEEN AMAZING. But if I have to, I'll help you seduce your husband. *sniff*

 

I do, however, think that women characters need to be subjected to the same standards as male characters, and I don't like abrasive and cocky people, so I'm going to be cool towards characters with the same traits. However, if one looks mainly for a succesful female character, they certainly build her up to be that in WoT2. Now that I've read how much of a presence she and her husband seem to have in the Guild, I suppose Varric's refusal to ever go there (other than that he doesn't like kalna) makes a whole lot of sense.

I think a lot of stuff ended up rushed and a bit truncated. It was probably not the place to actually introduce Bianca since they couldn't really do much with it.

 

I'm OK with abrasive and cocky people...within limits. But yes, we all have our personal tastes in characters. I find Josephine both too sweet and way too fussy/obsessive compulsive for my tastes, but I have no trouble understanding why many other people like her. Or Carver - I actually like his character a lot, but something about his VA's voice grates on my nerves in the worst way. Personal taste, in both cases, and it doesn't make either of them good or bad.

[90s Kai]

Hello Dwarflings!

I interrupt this program to give you a theory Ashe (Lady Insanity) has on our Titans.

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=V9_1W23g4GQ

What do you all think?

[Wintersonne123]

I think a lot of stuff ended up rushed and a bit truncated. It was probably not the place to actually introduce Bianca since they couldn't really do much with it.

 

I'm OK with abrasive and cocky people...within limits. But yes, we all have our personal tastes in characters. I find Josephine both too sweet and way too fussy/obsessive compulsive for my tastes, but I have no trouble understanding why many other people like her. Or Carver - I actually like his character a lot, but something about his VA's voice grates on my nerves in the worst way. Personal taste, in both cases, and it doesn't make either of them good or bad.

 

Yeah, personal taste does play into it a lot. Which is good, then there's something for everyone. I like characters I don't like. Sebastian I didn't like, but I still think he's a solid character. My problems with Bianca are mainly of a different nature.

 

I think it was done so that they had completely closed Varric's story. That I am okay with... I did like having him around for two games, but I'm ready for a new dwarfy companion in DA4 (since we apparently can never have two). Besides, maybe that person will be a warrior - or a mage? Man, that would be great. I could finally play an archer again! My favourite class, but good luck with two rogues on Nightmare in DA:I (since I have this compulsion to take Varric everywhere). Takes a better player than me to make that work. 

[Gilsa]

The truth has been spoken! Though I have to add, TWOT vol.2 actually reveals that it was Bogdan who was left alone by the altar while Bianca was attempting to elope with Varric. She has honored her family's wishes in the end, but at first she chose Vava. Not that it will change anybody's mind about the lady, but I do not like when a character is blamed for something that is not true.

 

Oh, thanks for that! Varric is maddeningly vague on a lot of things. I'm indifferent on Bianca. I don't hold the writing against characters (I knew Jacob had a different writer for ME3 so I wasn't upset with him, just the direction they took him in).

 

Ahh, right. I forget that one isn't done to the exclusion of another.

They have kids with the noble hunters AND their own wives. I do wonder if the upperclass women are okay with their husbands doing it, though.

 

Prrrrrrrrobably. Those noble hunters had to get permits, didn't they? Sanctioning this kind of activity officially likely means that it's already accepted by the upper castes. I'm guessing noble women are more likely to enter into arranged marriages or marriages of convenience (so both genders of their children will end up as noble) so they probably don't have a lot of emotion invested with their husbands and/or the husbands breeding activities.

 

This was a question I briefly pondered for Aeducan and Gorim. They would never be allowed to marry because of their caste. Would Lady Aeducan have given up her station for love? Would she have been revolutionary like Bhelen for the casteless and married who she pleased? Or did both she and Gorim understand their limitations and were willing to stay discrete? I didn't delve into that too deeply as circumstances changed for them anyway.

 

@Winter -- Ditto. I like Varric, but I'm OK with him being retired with his new duties (as of Trespasser). He's been referred to as dwarf-lite or a human inside a dwarf and I can see that. I'd like to see someone a little more pro-dwarf culture. Valta and Renn were fantastic.

[Merela]

Ah, thanks for pointing out that WoT2 entry, that clears some things up that Varric only alluded to in the game. Having read it, it... honestly makes me even more critical of both her and Varric and pretty much exacerbates all the problems I had with that, but I won't go into that now.

 

@Tishina, I also think that it was supposed to be quite complex, but... it wasn't the game for that. This would have worked better in a DA2 style setting with fewer companions and a more character-focused narrative (if one dares to ever suggest DA2 was anything but bad on a BW board... I honestly quite liked it). I certainly wouldn't want Varric's relationship troubles to take over DA:I, either, so, as I said, I'd have been happy if it just remained a mystery. And I still want to know why Gerav was ever involved in the process.

 

 

Another excerpt from TWOT vol. 2, p.181:

 

"Gerav made Bianca." A statement like that is simple, and people like things to be simple. More importantly, the Carta likes it. So I let them believe Gerav made the crossbow. Sometimes, the truth's just too complicated. Or too dangerous.

 

You want to know what really happened? It began, as everything does, with an idea. Somewhere in Gerav's spider's nest of a brain was an image: a repeating crossbow that was easy to operate, easy to aim, that could punch through steel like it was an undershirt. Well, Gerav took the idea to the Carta bosses, and it captured their imaginations. It's not hard to see why. If they could be built, if they coud arm the Carta muscle with them, no number of antique ceremonial shields would be able to stop the Carta. The dusters would take the Diamond Quarter.

 

So Gerav got the gold he needed to turn the idea into reality. He had the first prototype within a week. it didn't work. Neither did the second, the third, or the eighteenth. Bosses were getting restless, and Gerav was getting desperate. That's when I heard about the whole thing. Repeating crossbow? Sounded fascinating, so I went to see him. Somehow, I managed to convince him to sell me one of the prototypes. Number Fourteen, actually. It was the one that had come the closest and was made right before the designs started getting a bit...outlandish.

 

Anyway, Fourteen would eventually become my Bianca...but we weren't there yet. She didn't work. Just to see if it could be done, I asked around for another smith to take a look at her. My contacts pointed me to a lady just a few years out of her apprenticeship. Her work was solid, they said. She was brillant and still young enough that she hadn't picked the bad habit of knowing. That's the problem with experienced smiths. They know. They know how to do things, how not to do things. They know when things can be done, when things can't be done. But knowing leaves very little room for dreaming.

 

The smith? Her name was Bianca.

 

I met up with her, and one things led to another...Before I knew it, I had a repeating crossbow on my hands. Until this day, I don't know how she did it. Gerav and the Carta eventually found out that Fourteen worked, and I let them believe that all I did was adjust some of her pins. I knew, by that time, that I couldn't reveal Bianca's involvement. The Carta would never leave her alone. I didn't want that...She didn't want that.

 

Well, Gerav got another chest of gold and spent the next few years trying to replicate the success of Fourteen. When he could, he'd build little upgrades for my Bianca - some of them worked; some of them didn't. Then he stopped writing. We found out later that he was part of the Carta scheme to capture Hawke for Corypheus. I was angry at the time, but it wasn't really his fault. He'd drunk darkspawn blood and wasn't himself by the time we found him. He's gone now...and I'm sure I told Cassandra all about that a year or so back, and I don't feel like going into it again.

 

So there it is. The story. Or at least the relevant bits. I'm going to hold you to your promise, Nightingale. You never let the truth about Gerav and Bianca out.

[Tishina]

Yeah, personal taste does play into it a lot. Which is good, then there's something for everyone. I like characters I don't like. Sebastian I didn't like, but I still think he's a solid character. My problems with Bianca are mainly of a different nature.

 

I think it was done so that they had completely closed Varric's story. That I am okay with... I did like having him around for two games, but I'm ready for a new dwarfy companion in DA4 (since we apparently can never have two). Besides, maybe that person will be a warrior - or a mage? Man, that would be great. I could finally play an archer again! My favourite class, but good luck with two rogues on Nightmare in DA:I (since I have this compulsion to take Varric everywhere). Takes a better player than me to make that work. 

Like I said, I don't have much invested in either character. I like Varric, but I've never been a rabid fan of his either. Sigrun and Harding are more my ideal of dwarven NPCs, honestly. I don't even keep Varric in my party most of the time, I find Sera more entertaining if I need a rogue.

 

I agree that it appears that they'll never give us more than one dwarven companion at a time (and I've more or less given up on a really good dwarven romance; I fully expect it to be very marginal if not an Oghren-type when they do write one, sigh.) I'd love to see dwarf-only magic as a class, but I wouldn't want the dwarven companion to be that class because that would mean I couldn't be that class and have her or him in my party too. Harding as a companion would mean a more traditional archer with a bow that wasn't such a nuisance to upgrade at least.

[vertigomez]

Ahh, right. I forget that one isn't done to the exclusion of another.
They have kids with the noble hunters AND their own wives. I do wonder if the upperclass women are okay with their husbands doing it, though.

I don't think they get much say in it. On a societal level, such possessiveness would probably be considered selfish and even harmful to the community, given that dwarves are dropping like flies in the Deep Roads. Orzammar likely depends on (non-casteless) men having multiple children with multiple women, what with the whole fecundity issue.

Which... would really suck, actually, if you're a monogamy-minded dude who's genuinely in love with your wife and doesn't particularly want to be with other women. Of course, your marriage is very likely an arranged one anyway, so...

[Wintersonne123]

Thank you, Merela! I do find it pretty, let's say, er, convenient that Gerav is too stupid to reverse-engineer a crossbow based on his own idea, but that was always a problem. Then again, Bianca in gameplay is not really the society-shifting maverick that she used to be... grmbl. But, much as I liked my turret Varric, I do understand nerfing that crossbow, she really was a little overpowered in DA2 and at least now Varric can leave her behind and take up the daggers if the player wants it.

 

By the way, did you like the way DA:I did weapon distribution and such? I did notice there was sometimes a little disconnect between story and gameplay; for example, I gave Sera daggers on my first playthrough, but some of her cutscenes, the tarot cards and that song clearly say that she prefers the bow and it does seem to be a, however small, part of her characterisation that I like. Varric is pretty different without Bianca (funny enough, he once commented that he doesn't like the frontline in one of my playthroughs and the banter had overlayed into the fighting, so as he said it he stood right next to Blackwall backstabbing a bandit). And IB never seemed like the sword and shield guy, but I needed another tank, haha. On the other hand, I do like the freedom to outfit my companions a lot to build my favourite parties, so... it felt more cohesive in DA2 and the designs of the costumes were more striking because everyone had their signature stuff, but alltogether I'm happy customisation is back.

 

That Titan theory is really interesting (and holy hell, way to spoil the plot of DA:I Sandal! That was pretty cool). I have to say, after Descent/Trespasser

Spoiler

I am kind of hoping that the Titans will play a bit of a role again. Obviously it would be a problem if they, uh, stood up. They'd probably take most of Thedas with them. But maybe now that one has gotten its hands on a modern dwarf, and possibly captures some more in the future (and you could always handwave they read the Dwarfquisitor's or Varric's or Harding's mind to get the gist on what was happening with Cory), perhaps they will take an interest again? I would think it would affect them, too, if Solas just up and rips the Veil asunder.

 

And maybe the distinction between surfacers and "real" dwarves will become important. Dwarfquisitor, Varric and Harding do not hear the Titan's song, nor does he try to grab Varric or Inky. What do the Titans think of these little stoneblind relatives of theirs? Will the underground dwarves take the Titans as Gods and a sign they were always right about surfacers, or rebel? Or maybe the Titans will just turn them into a huge indoctrinated army.

[DalishRanger]

If anyone's interested, I'm participating in the art side of the tumblr Dragon Age Reverse Big Bang (basically you draw some fan art and other people write a fanfiction based on that fan art); we can submit two pieces and my first one is going to be with Dorn and Cassandra. I'm about to start streaming my sketching stage at my Picarto page here, if anyone wants to see it.

 

(Side note: The Romancing the Stone joke cracked me up and is giving me ideas I may or may not pursue in the coming weeks. )

[Gilsa]

(Oh, that reminds me! Was "The Dwarven Assembly" the strongest contender for the thread title? Any one of us can drop a line to the OP and see if we get lucky. I can do it, but I'm heading out for the afternoon and likely won't be back until later if someone else wanted to do it in the meantime. Just saying.)

[vertigomez]

I think the Dwarven Assembly title is great! Maybe with the addendum that it's a fan thread, so that folks don't think this is literally just a thread to talk about the Assembly.

[wicked cool]

Are there knowledge perks that are highly recomended before starting descent etc, earlier posts mentioned you
Miss out if youdont have these perks

Thanks

[DalishRanger]

^ I concur, I like Dwarven Assembly if we're renaming the thread. Seems fitting.

[Bhryaen]

Wait, what? That was the best part of DA2! FIGHT MEEEEEEE!

 

Ummm... Oh, I think my wording was misleading on that. I liked the Aveline quest actually. It was way different in type from the other companions quests, but I still did the whole thing. I'm a content junkie anyway. I'd said: "That's got to be the shortest companion quest in DAI. Aveline's ridiculous romance quest in DA2 went on 10 times longer. So that certainly made it underwhelming." What I meant was *backpedal, backpedal* Avenline was given an extensive personal quest compared to DAIVarric's tiny one, which makes DAIVarric's personal quest that much more underwhelming. No, really!

 

EDIT:

I also liked Cassandra's ridiculous personal quest involving Varric's unfinished book. She looks so happy at the end, it gave me a big smile.

[Gilsa]

Are there knowledge perks that are highly recomended before starting descent etc, earlier posts mentioned you
Miss out if youdont have these perks

Thanks

 

I counted 1 historian, 4 magic, and 2 nobility dialogue options. (None for underworld that I saw.) Dwarf-specific icons are obvious, but no clue if other races get racial icons in the DLC. (Can't really imagine why they would.)

 

@Bhryaen -- LOL. =p

[Bhryaen]

Tell me, what advantage is there to having kids with the noble hunters?

If the nobles do it with their own wives the results will be just the same. Or are those women exceptionally more fertile?.

In DAO's casteless origin you learn from Rica that the ruling castes are essentially encouraging more dwarven population, like TobyTobsen says, specifically to make new soldiers against the darkspawn hordes. For a casteless the advantage is obvious. On a related note it was fitting that Bhelen's big reform was officially recruiting casteless against the darkspawn. That was and for centuries has been the main concern of Orzammar.

[Bhryaen]

I counted 1 historian, 4 magic, and 2 nobility dialogue options. (None for underworld that I saw.) Dwarf-specific icons are obvious, but no clue if other races get racial icons in the DLC. (Can't really imagine why they would.)

My elf didn't get any...

[draken-heart]

Here are some more pics of Duvessa:

 

Spoiler

Here she is seeing Coryphetit's dragon.

 

And here she is getting ready for her first judgement (armed exile to tevinter).

[Bhryaen]

I've been won to "Dwarven Assembly." Gets my vote. Since it's inclusive as an "organization," it can certainly apply to just dwarf fans generally.

 

Here are some more pics of Duvessa:

 

Spoiler

 

And here she is getting ready for her first judgement (armed exile to tevinter).

Dwarves definitely look better on the curiously smallish thrones in DAI. The designers made them just for us. Should be fun to see a qunari squeezing into one. I've had to use the Kirkwall throne for my elf.

[Remki]

Dwarves definitely look better on the curiously smallish thrones in DAI. The designers made them just for us. Should be fun to see a qunari squeezing into one. I've had to use the Kirkwall throne for my elf.

 

Idk I put Nakida on that giant Kirkwall throne and thought it looked great. Made everyone in the room feel just as short as she is