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[Bhryaen]

Those of you who had a son with Mardy, which name did you pick?

I always thought it was hilarious that you could wind up with two baby Endrins.

Revisited... I checked on DAWiki to jog my memory of how that scene goes. Somehow I didn't notice you could name your son after yourself. My Jagan chose "Gorim" immediately though given how loyal a companion he had been through thick and thin. Bhelen hadn't even tried to bribe him away from me. (He would've told me if Bhelen had.) It was one thing I could do for my old chum who had suffered along with me simply for his association with me, and I was sure the child would always feel that fealty when Jagan would address him.

 

So which name did you choose, question-asker?

[Bhryaen]

 8) Huh. I wonder what happens if the OGB is half-dwarf. Better see where it leads. Roll male Brosca for Morrigan.

This one has me curious myself. I never really played out the Morrigan's kid storyline much. Is there any difference with a half-dwarf OGB in DAI? My Jagan Aeducan slept with her (and every other willing lass haha) but he let her break it off at one point given how many reservations she seemed to have. I think I made Loghain a martyr in that playthrough (though Alistair married Anora rather than becoming a drunk- maybe better for him?) But then I see there's a Keep option for "human baby" with her instead of an OGB. I never even knew that was a possibility in DAO. So I just made my new Jargen Cadash have a Keep background where Snark has a full romance with her, but she ends up with a "human baby." Should be innerestin.

 

Another aspect... If humans and dwarves can procreate, that means humans, elves, and dwarves are all the same species in DA- at least according to the official RL definition of species. I'm an evolution buff of sorts myself, so it would be fascinating to know how these diverse members of the same species came about from a common ancestor. I mean, weren't dwarves supposed to come from the Stone? Or Titans? Maybe ancient dwarves were the first "humanoids," later branching off into "present-day" dwarves, elves, and humans... and qunari? I could see qunari coming from humans though given what Cassandra apparently says about reavers potentially growing horns- but that could just make qunari cousins rather than racial siblings.

[wicked cool]

Put me down as being really impressed on how much work they put into dwarves if we assume that they were a late playable addition.
Its the dialogue from random npcs, companiondialogue and letters found that
Truly make you feel like a dwarf. Its different from dao which gave you tons of love early in game and when you return to orzammar but none in dlc and very little from npcs

Part of me wishes we had some carta connections in game, more varric/harding dialogue, more dwarven decorations etc

What i also cant figure out is why they are opposed to dwarven love interests but allowus to be with bigger npcs and alliw other npcs to romance dwarven npcs
Harding could have been a tastefully done relationship and so im not even sure why they wanted flirting

[Gilsa]

As far as I know, Kieran's dwarf parentage is not acknowledged, but his lines are different if he's an actual OGB versus regular baby (romanced Warden declines ritual).

[vertigomez]

So which name did you choose, question-asker?

I think I went with Duncan or Gorim. It's been a while. It actually makes me wonder if getting to name the kiddo was for player convenience or if it's actually a dwarven custom for the father to name the child..? Or maybe it has less to do with gender and more to do with the DN being a noble while Mardy's not.

My guy killed his brother so naming his son Trian would've been... awkwaaard. Wish we could've seen the look on Bhelen's face if we named him Endrin, though. I imagine it'd go something like this...

As for half-dwarf Kieran, I really don't know if evolution comes into play in DA. So "race" for the purpose of the setting isn't quite what we'd recognize here in the real world. I'm gonna go with "a wizard did it".

[Bhryaen]

Wish we could've seen the look on Bhelen's face if we named him Endrin, though. I imagine it'd go something like this...

Hilarious fanfiction! When this line came up...

 

 

 

Still, Vartag and Reidin could not be in the same room for longer than two minutes before they started sniping at each other and, if left alone, would probably end up trying to kill each other. It was ridiculous, naturally, but didn't appear to be serious enough for him to intercede.

 

I thought the writer was going to add, "Besides, Reidin would probably win." (Or, "Besides, maybe Vartag has a chance...") Also funny how Bhelen resorts to, "I named mine first." No, I did! No, I did! No, I definitely did!

[vertigomez]

I have to repost this every so often. Friendly reminder that Bhelen marries Rica and wants everyone to venerate her noble house.

Spoiler

My Dwarf had Mard pick out a name, since she had and raised the baby, so I guess there's two baby Endrins out there. Although one is a Prince and the other is most likely a Casteless.

Harrowmont and Bhelen will both accept the kiddo, given enough prodding, so luckily he doesn't have to remain casteless. I think Gilsa posted the dialogue at one point? Their different attitudes were... telling.

I thought the writer was going to add, "Besides, Reidin would probably win." (Or, "Besides, maybe Vartag has a chance...") Also funny how Bhelen resorts to, "I named mine first." No, I did! No, I did! No, I definitely did!

Bhelen cracks me up in crackfic. So touchy.

[Gilsa]

Hmm. I think I only posted about Bhelen and Harrowmont in regards to Rica's child for the commoner origin, not Aeducan himself. I searched this thread to see if I posted the Aeducan version and nothing came up so here's what I got from the DAO toolset:

 

Spoiler

DURING A PARAGON OF HER KIND - BHELEN

 

Aeducan: "If I help you, I want you to help my son."

(If persuade is 2+)
Bhelen: "Your son? What are you-- Oh. Oh, that's rich. You're talking about that casteless girl, aren't you?" (VO says "amused, smirking.")
Bhelen: "The one that came around claiming an Aeducan son. That was yours? I never figured you for that sort of man." (VO says "amused that his brother has vices.")
Bhelen: "But put me on the throne and I'll give the wh*re and her brat the Aeducan name, and a lovely room in the smallest palace." (VO says "off-handed, condescending.")

(If no persuade)
Bhelen: "Your son? What are you-- Oh. Oh, that's rich. You're talking about that casteless girl who came around claiming to have an Aeducan son." (VO says "amused, smirking.")
Bhelen: "Well, Brother, I can't agree to raise a condemned criminal's casteless brat into House Aeducan." (VO says "enjoying insulting the player.")
Bhelen: "Perhaps if you help me regain the throne, I'll reconsider. But I can't make any promises before then." (VO says "condescending, insulting.")


AFTER CROWNING KING BHELEN

Aeducan: "And my son? He will be cared for now?"

(I'm not clear what conditions are needed to trigger either version, but my guess is #1 is if Aeducan worked with Bhelen all along and #2 is with minimal cooperation.)

Version 1:
Bhelen: "Yes, yes, I already have the girl and her brat set up in a room in the smallest palace." (VO says "sounds exasperated and dismissive.")
Bhelen: "Don't worry, Brother. The boy will grow up hearing what a hero his father was." (VO says "a little snide, mock sincere.")
Bhelen: "And if you die in the Blight, I'll be sure the wh*re wears sackcloth for at least a day." (mock-sincere)
Bhelen: "Now, I must address my other petitioners. Come back and visit sometimes."

Version 2:
Bhelen: "Sure, send the wh*re and her brat to me. I'll make sure they take the name and a nice room in the smallest palace." (VO says "mock generous.")
Bhelen: "Don't worry, Brother. The boy will grow up hearing what a hero his father was." (VO says "a little snide, mock sincere.")
Bhelen: "And if you die in the Blight, I'll be sure the wh*re wears sackcloth for at least a day." (mock-sincere)
Bhelen: "Now, I must address my other petitioners. Come back and visit sometimes."
 

 

DURING A PARAGON OF HER KIND - HARROWMONT

Aedcuan: "My son has been denied noble status. Can you help him?"
Harrowmont: "A son? I did not ... your father didn't know of any son. I suppose the girl has ... no status of her own?" (VO notes say "surprised, trying to approach this situation with delicacy in order not to offend anyone.")
Harrowmont: "If you help me take the throne, I promise I will formally adopt the child into my household." (VO notes say "determined and sincere. Honorable.")

AFTER CROWNING KING HARROWMONT

Aeducan: "And my son? He will be cared for?"
Harrowmont: "Tell your lover to bring me the child and they will both have a place in House Harrowmont." (VO notes say "warm and welcoming.")
Harrowmont: "It is the least I can do for your father's grandson."

Note: Even if you only bring up your son after Harrowmont is crowned, notes say that Harrowmont will be surprised and then agree to take the child in.

 

Edit: No matter who Brosca sides with, Rica's child will be just fine. Bhelen lives or dies as a noble so his son will still be the Aeducan heir either way.

[vertigomez]

Thank you so much! Loool, Bhelen's lines are rich considering his own vices. >_____>

[Leo]

Harrowmont and Bhelen will both accept the kiddo, given enough prodding, so luckily he doesn't have to remain casteless. I think Gilsa posted the dialogue at one point? Their different attitudes were... telling.
 

Yeah my dwarf had Harrowmont accept Mardy and baby Endrin, meaning that Bhelen's boy is the casteless one.

[Gilsa]

Thank you so much! Loool, Bhelen's lines are rich considering his own vices. >_____>

 

No problem, I enjoy looking this stuff up. This is a total trip. Bhelen is a complete condescending ass to his sibling in DAO, but in DAI, he builds the biggest statue for Aeducan while Harrowmont comes across as a cheapskate. It's almost a complete reversal. I'd love a dwarven Q&A with Laidlaw so we can see wtf happened with the dwarves behind the scene, if it's a matter of losing the main dwarf writer on the team or deciding to simplify things for continuity.

[vertigomez]

Yeah my dwarf had Harrowmont accept Mardy and baby Endrin, meaning that Bhelen's boy is the casteless one.

Whoops, I'm getting my dorf babies confused.

No problem, I enjoy looking this stuff up. This is a total trip. Bhelen is a complete condescending ass to his sibling in DAO, but in DAI, he builds the biggest statue for Aeducan while Harrowmont comes across as a cheapskate. It's almost a complete reversal. I'd love a dwarven Q&A with Laidlaw so we can see wtf happened with the dwarves behind the scene, if it's a matter of losing the main dwarf writer on the team or deciding to simplify things for continuity.

Ha! I suppose with Bhelen and his sibling, it could be a matter of keeping up appearances. If the DN is pardoned then they're an Aeducan again, and since they're no longer a threat to his power... why not make the most of your fame? It seems like a very Bhelen-y thing to do. Good PR.

Not sure about Harrowmont, though. I guess it's to showcase his greediness, because there are food shortages under his reign and the rumors said he was making bank off something (?? iirc). Coupled with his ~noble pride~ maybe we're supposed to assume he'd be something of a miser king.

[GoldenGail3]

No problem, I enjoy looking this stuff up. This is a total trip. Bhelen is a complete condescending ass to his sibling in DAO, but in DAI, he builds the biggest statue for Aeducan while Harrowmont comes across as a cheapskate. It's almost a complete reversal. I'd love a dwarven Q&A with Laidlaw so we can see wtf happened with the dwarves behind the scene, if it's a matter of losing the main dwarf writer on the team or deciding to simplify things for continuity.

Ha! I'm glad that my Aeducan left Bhelen King (she rather disliked Harrowmonts way with the Castless... And she thought he was weak).

[Bhryaen]

Yeah my dwarf had Harrowmont accept Mardy and baby Endrin, meaning that Bhelen's boy is the casteless one.

lol... awww... My Aeducan would've taken him in. Would've made for a great new plot twist raising Bhelen's kid too...

 

Not sure who my Jagan sided with precisely because of that dialog. And I think I got the most asinine of Bhelen's responses too. If Jagan sided with Bhelen, I have no idea how I reasoned it. "Don't worry, Brother. The boy will grow up hearing what a hero his father was." (VO says "a little snide, mock sincere.") Raised by the guy who tried to kill me? Heelllll, no... Jagan was no backstabber and did care about Mardy and his new son. I think there was an interaction with Harrowmont's aide that seemed to indicate Jagan wasn't as respected by Harrowmont as he was being led to believe- might have turned the tables toward Bhelen. Then I head-canoned Jagan returning regularly to check on little Gorim- or ended up living there with them. Too bad Mardy was so insistent on a place in the palace- could've made a home on the surface with one of Jagan's new contacts there.

 

King Alistair: "Is there any request you might make of the Ferelden throne, Hero of Ferelden?"

Jagan: "Well, Alistair-"

King Alistair: "Ah-ah-ah. King Alistair now."

Jagan: *pause* "Uh huh... so... King Alistair... I have this kid, you see, sort of doesn't have a home, and neither does his mother who I-"

King Alistair: "Hahaha, a brat out of wedlock with some trash chick? I get it. Sure, we got a little room off the grounds-"

Jagan: "Why didn't I just take Bhelen's offer...?"

 

I'd love a dwarven Q&A with Laidlaw so we can see wtf happened with the dwarves behind the scene, if it's a matter of losing the main dwarf writer on the team or deciding to simplify things for continuity.

They... "lost" them? We could find them for 'em. Never heard this story. *the plot thickens*

[Gilsa]

Not much to it. Jennifer Hepler wrote much of the dwarf stuff -- Orzammar, dwarf commoner, co-wrote Paragon of Her Kind, Anvil of the Void -- and had the "Queen of the Dwarves" nickname. She's no longer with the company. I just personally wondered if the lack of dwarf development was due to her departure. Big shoes to fill and all.

[Bhryaen]

Not much to it. Jennifer Hepler wrote much of the dwarf stuff -- Orzammar, dwarf commoner, co-wrote Paragon of Her Kind, Anvil of the Void -- and had the "Queen of the Dwarves" nickname. She's no longer with the company. I just personally wondered if the lack of dwarf development was due to her departure. Big shoes to fill and all.

Jennifer Hepler. Must remember this name then- my hero! Did she...? I'll go Google. I hope they're not just averse to doing anything with "her baby." Dwarf fans are more disappointed by devs writing out dwarves than by devs writing them not as well as we'd like. I reserve the right to whine in advance though...

 

Ohhh. Thaaat was the Jennifer Hepler... ... ... Friggen frack. Why? Why did it have to go down that way?... I've been calling for the devs to return their DAO dwarf writer for DA4 in other threads too.    I'm sure they'll listen. I still stand by the demand- not that she wants to return, but still... I bet the haters even forgot her name by now- dimwits. If only she'd written the Couslands as well... So I was falling in love her creation just about the time she was being hounded without any clue they were related. Ironies just keep comin'...

 

"That's the biggest risk in my opinion: that we will lose out on the talents of people who would make fantastic games that we would all be the better for playing, because they legitimately don't want to make themselves into targets.

"A lot of the best artists and storytellers (and quite a few great programmers too)," she said, "tend to be sensitive people - we shouldn't lose out on their talents because we are requiring them to be tough, battle-scarred veterans just to walk in the door."

 

Now I'm sad. Gonna go kill Venatori...

[Bhryaen]

Not exactly explicitly dwarf music, but I love this 8tracks mix someone made for Orzammar, you might like some of the songs.

Thanks! When I was listening at that site yesterday I kept trying to figure out how to download it- took me a while before I saw the panel at the bottom that shows you links to each song on YouTube. There's less dwarfy music about than I'd anticipated (not sure why I thought there'd be more), but I ended up downloading DAO's music, especially the Orzammar suite (that wasn't among the collection in that Orzammar link somehow) and have been listening on iTunes on repeat...

 

See, that's the thing I was thinking too. Why in the world would a collective consciousness necessarily mean that dwarves would "lose themselves" to the mind of the Titan? Idk if Sandal is the best example, considering some people wouldn't want to be like him. But then again some people wouldn't want to be tranquil, and others volunteer for it so that's a matter of perspective. Still, while a lot of the Titan/Stone stuff sounds ominous and the Elves apparently killed the Titan to "free" someone (assumed dwarfs), Dagna made it sound more passive rather than an aggressive presence (if that's what she's referring to). I'm kinda working with a hand behind my back too because I haven't played the Decent DLC yet either, but doesn't Valta otherwise keep her mind? Like from what I've seen without spoiling it, she's pretty lucid. Plus I don't really trust the Elves, especially the Evanuris, to really keep any unbiased record of reasoning. Mythal might have meant well, maybe, but I can easily see the Evanuris seizing the opportunity to "free" people if it suddenly gave them unfettered access to something as powerful as lyrium.

 

I mean I'm not on one side or the other about this yet, but considering how... incomplete the dwarves feel (what with lacking magic and access to the fade), I would be happy to see the return of the Titan being a herald of a new age for dwarves, rather than just the beginning of their destruction. Plus seeing some huge Titan just tromping around the fade (or maybe even Thedas!) would be AWESOME

 

...

 

I think that's pretty much disproven by Dagna though, if the line she mentions about feeling tall is referring to any kind of connection with the Titan. She's not only castless but has spent enough time on the surface to be a surfacer, but she doesn't seem to have any problem. Plus what about all those surface dwarve stonemasons? They seem to still have some kind of stone sense, which they talk about in DA:O Awakenings and to a small extent in Inquisition when they're rebuilding the castle walls in both games. Now people born on the surface, like Varric? I can see them having a harder time connecting. 

 

Hmm maybe that's why red lyrium has less of an affect on him, actually. Wild speculation, but Bartrand was born and mostly raised underground, so he probably still had some remnant of stone sense. But Varric was all surface and says more than once that he "doesn't get it". Maybe the combo of being cut off from the fade AND from his stone sense made him less susceptible to the Song. Anyone with stone sense or the ability to dream was affected, but maybe sun-born dwarfs wouldn't be as likely to succumb too fast. Hmm... *continues to mutter to self for the next hour*

I'm trying not to speculate too much more either until I get through the whole game at last... Buuuut... Those are good speculations points: Dagna accessing "Titan-think" regardless of her surfacer orientation, Sandal too being a visionary despite being sun-touched, Valta not becoming a drone at all (at least at first), lyrium still "singing" to people on the surface, and yet Varric seeming to have a resistance. vertigomez brought up another point about surfacer dwarves in Amaranthine being good stonemasons. With all that it certainly makes the Titan's passing over dwarven protagonists as Stone Nonsensicals to spare only Valta as the only one with Stone Sense a bit less comprehensible. Plot hole or intentional? We'll see...

 

So let's get through to the end of Trespasser so we can speculate like the professionals!

 

"*continues to mutter to self for the next hour*" You too? I know that experience...

[Bhryaen]

Uh... did you guys know about this DAO DLC "A Tale of Orzammar"? Just stumbled on it... Did anyone play it?

[Remki]

Uh... did you guys know about this DAO DLC "A Tale of Orzammar"? Just stumbled on it... Did anyone play it?

 

Huh, never played that. Looks like a promotional thing. I'm at work so I can't check but does the download link even still work? 

[Bhryaen]

As for half-dwarf Kieran, I really don't know if evolution comes into play in DA. So "race" for the purpose of the setting isn't quite what we'd recognize here in the real world. I'm gonna go with "a wizard did it".

But that's about as creative a plot device as "works in mysterious ways." I mostly thought of a dwarven "humanoid" origin given that dwarves also started the "common tongue," plus the whole world-affecting Titan Shaping notion. I mean, the Titans may have been the child of the Stone + magic, but maybe people were the children of the Titan, branching off later. It makes more sense that there were Titans first, then the elves to hunt them. Not sure how they'd explain the different ears and heights and such, but DA does tend to actually provide answers to questions of ancient lore. Not sure if there's anything "pre-historic" in DA lore yet though... other than potentially the Scaled Ones.

 

Huh, never played that. Looks like a promotional thing. I'm at work so I can't check but does the download link even still work? 

Downloads as a dazip mod! Now I just have to get DAO back up and running...

[Bhryaen]

Ha! Forgot I'd actually edited the DAWiki yrs ago when I was more active in DA. I'm the one who put the "They treat us like dust" and "Dust Town- it sticks to the skin" quotes into Kalah's entry. I'm way too proud of that...

 

EDIT:

Looks like someone removed a couple other quotes that were there originally- wonder why.

[Gilsa]

Huh, good find. I wasn't aware of it. The game was already out by the time I gave it a try.

[TEWR]

Ha! Forgot I'd actually edited the DAWiki yrs ago when I was more active in DA. I'm the one who put the "They treat us like dust" and "Dust Town- it sticks to the skin" quotes into Kalah's entry. I'm way too proud of that...

 

EDIT:

Looks like someone removed a couple other quotes that were there originally- wonder why.

 

I dunno. Frankly I wish the DA wiki would go the route of the KH wiki and have an entire sub-page devoted to each character's quotes. For instance, if you go onto Xemnas' page, it gives you his basic entry, but there's a link you can click on that goes to Xemnas/Quotes and it's every single line he says in the games.

 

This would be immensely helpful to people with DA, because I remember seeing a Teagan quote on the wiki that I ended up hearing in the games, but it was deleted. Which sucks, because it was always pertinent to the Loghain debates (there's a part of me who thinks fandom bias may have played a small part, as the wiki has hardly ever been impartial when it comes to characters). And I'm not gonna replay DAO for one stinking quote even though I have the gist of it memorized.

 

Anyway, point is emulating the KH wiki would improve the DA wiki if you ask me.

[TEWR]

Uh... did you guys know about this DAO DLC "A Tale of Orzammar"? Just stumbled on it... Did anyone play it?

 

I have (just remembered I downloaded it some time ago).

 

I don't consider it canon -- since it was made with a game review site just to really demonstrate the modding capabilities -- because it makes Bhelen seem like his ass is kissed even more. How the hell did he find the Shield of Aeducan, when legend had it resting in the tomb of the Paragon himself? In the Deep Roads? How would he know it was Paragon Aeducan's and not just a shield with an Aeducan heraldry on it? 

 

How does no one notice that the frigging prince is missing from the palace and no where in the city even as time rolls on?

 

Bah, talking about Bhelen makes my blood boil. His entire arc only makes sense if we assume that everyone in Orzammar has the IQ of soap. And short-sighted idiots the nobles may be, they're stupid when it comes to outside threats.... not internal. For Bhelen's path to really be accepted, it actually necessitates that he be extremely lucky and everyone else be extremely stupid.

[Gilsa]

This would be immensely helpful to people with DA, because I remember seeing a Teagan quote on the wiki that I ended up hearing in the games, but it was deleted. Which sucks, because it was always pertinent to the Loghain debates (there's a part of me who thinks fandom bias may have played a small part, as the wiki has hardly ever been impartial when it comes to characters). And I'm not gonna replay DAO for one stinking quote even though I have the gist of it memorized.

 

Tell meeeeeeeee! Gimme the gist and where you remember it being said (Landsmeet, Redcliffe, etc). I can do a quick search in the toolset. (I know it has nothing to do with the original point, but I love it when people whip out authentic quotes instead of hyperbole to bolster their arguments.)