7967 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhryaen]

It's great you were able to get a hold of her, thanks for that. I knew a title change wasn't likely because she returned here with a new handle. My original message to her about the thread is still unread so she probably doesn't have access to the original account or the ability to edit her post.

I was being entirely facetious by saying gratitude was called for- especially since it was a bit of a Quixote's windmill endeavor as it was. More I was just hinting again (equally ineffectually) that we should just make a new thread. Much easier that way...

 

I don't know how it works on these forums or if the mods even go for it here, but I was a member of another forum where a blank post by one member could be inserted into the OP, making the new member the "original" poster, and then they could edit the post and title as they pleased. That's how they changed fanclub ownership over there.

Mods here don't seem, err... terribly present, though, so I don't even know if that's a thing.

If that were an option, we might be able to get a mod on board if we had the original OP's express consent (which maybe we could get at least). We'd just have to get someone here to be the OP stand-in. I nominate Gilsa cuz she's been around so long and likes digging into material to quote. She could handily get a lot of the best stuff- fanart, DAWiki links, etc.- into an OP post, and she's a good rep. We need that 5% cartoon in our OP.

 

[Bhryaen]

Hmm, I suppose it shows, lol. Let's just say I have a particular interest in questions of identity and culture and how they work together. Nope, I'm not on a clock, just have to meet deadlines. Don't get paid all that great, but I have a lot of flexibility on how I get things done.

Lucky dawgette. I have a lot less flexibility being on-call (and on "company time") in the places I work.

 

... Now, why the casteless themselves haven't openly rebelled is another question entirely (though perhaps they have in the past...?) You do see in Varric and some of the other younger surface caste dwarves signs of rejecting that system, though....

Wasn't there a casteless rebellion we find out about somewhere? I swear I remember it, but it's a miserably vague recollection, and I can't seem to find mention of it in DAWiki. Was it Amgarrak or Kal-Shirol? IIRC the casteless rose up somewhere or made some sort of caste-breaking contribution to dwarfy history. Maybe it's just wishful thinking coloring my memories. Given the training that the casteless so consistently get in combat through preparation for the Legion of the Dead and the carta (and the weapons thereby available), it's not like the casteless are necessarily hapless victims. Then again, most in dwarven life are likely scrappers themselves just due to the nature of dwarven society. After all, there's an entire caste devoted to being warriors...

 

Hm, forgot about this: according to the DAO epilogues, there is a casteless rebellion in Orzammar if you get Harrowmont elected (I think it's linked to giving Branka the Anvil)... and then there's a grisly end of that rebellion...

 

“After a law excluding the casteless from common areas of the city was passed, a rebellion saw the slums reduced practically to rubble. Although outrage was widespread, the Assembly remained united behind King Harrowmont.”

 

That's not the casteless rebellion I was thinking of though... Curiously it adds about Harrowmont's reign, "Caste restrictions and the rights of the nobles both grew..." Wonder if those "caste restrictions" had to do with lineage law legitimacy...

[Spectre4hire]

I think you're thinking of Kal' Hirol.

 

"The thaig was attacked by darkspawn during/around the First Blight. When it was being evacuated five hundred casteless were left behind. 

 

Fearing that the guard would be unable to stop the Horde, a dwarf, Dailan appealed to the casteless to help him in a suicidal battle suggesting to prove that they were not worthless as the Dwarven society claimed. Two hundred joined him in that battle." From the DA Wikia.

 

It's been awhile since I've played Awakening but I think when the Warden completes the sidequest to discover what happened with the casteless there will be an epilogue slide that states the Shaperate will acknowledge the casteless sacrifice and return those who were lost to the Stone in a ceremony that the Warden attended.  

 

Also worth noting that House Helmi eventually reclaimed the famous Thaig by Dragon 9: 31

[Bhryaen]

I think you're thinking of Kal' Hirol.

 

"The thaig was attacked by darkspawn during/around the First Blight. When it was being evacuated five hundred casteless were left behind. 

 

Fearing that the guard would be unable to stop the Horde, a dwarf, Dailan appealed to the casteless to help him in a suicidal battle suggesting to prove that they were not worthless as the Dwarven society claimed. Two hundred joined him in that battle." From the DA Wikia.

 

It's been awhile since I've played Awakening but I think when the Warden completes the sidequest to discover what happened with the casteless there will be an epilogue slide that states the Shaperate will acknowledge the casteless sacrifice and return those who were lost to the Stone in a ceremony that the Warden attended.  

 

Also worth noting that House Helmi eventually will reclaim the famous Thaig by Dragon 9: 31

Yes! Thank you so much. I knew I wasn't totally crazy. It obviously wasn't a rebellion, but it was a way the casteless rose up militarily and took their place in dwarven history. The Helmi part also sounds potentially significant...

[Olwaye]

I think in some areas we have to disagree, but definitely respectfully. I love this sort of discussion when it's polite. I firmly agree, btw, that the caste system is strangling Orzammar and needs to be jettisoned, but people at the top are rarely willing to give up control voluntarily, and the casteless stigma helps them keep control; people aren't willing to risk losing caste by rebelling openly. Remember, even during the Blight, the nobles of Orzammar were more interested in scrambling for position and keeping their control than in responding to the situation. Now, why the casteless themselves haven't openly rebelled is another question entirely (though perhaps they have in the past...?) You do see in Varric and some of the other younger surface caste dwarves signs of rejecting that system, though.

 

 

 

Catching up with your posts.

 

I always thought of Orzammar as being a lot like the Late Roman Republic, their society is firmly locked up and kept in check by the casts system and the final sanction of surface exile. Time to time the deshyrs may accept in their ranks a "****** novus", like the senate accepted non patrician members (Cicero for example) to keep the top non patrician class to rebel.

The lowest class are just to preoccupied by making a living to rebel, and I always thought that one of the reason the castless are not simply put to the sword is that their mere existance gives the servant casts a reason to be proud ("we might live in poverty, but at least we are not like living in squalor like these miserables castless") and a cautionary tale in case they start to have funny ideas ( akin to slavery in ancient Rome).

In this kind of society it's nearly impossible to climb the social ladder (but not totaly) but very easy to fall down to the lowest level, so that every member of a cast may have hope to raise as a "New Dwarf" and a great fear of sinking to the lowest of the low as a castless/ suracer.

 

This can go on for a long time, it's a self sustaining system, the castless are the only one who might want to rebel because they have nothing to loose, but then I guess a good massacre or a non intervention next time the darkspawn attack Dustown and the question is settled. Plus some castless are definitely well off (Carta boss for example) a change in society is a great risk to their business. To come back to ancient Rome, there has been slave rebellion, ponctual, localized and they ended up in slave blood, the largest and most famous being the Spartacus one, that ended up with 6000 crucifiction all along the Via Appia on roughly 200km, there wasn't anymore large rebellion after that.

 

The changes in dwarven society will come from the surfacers, Orzammar can not survive without them and a dwarven Caesar will want to get acces to the power.

 

Edit : Funny or sad, the forum blank the latin word for "man", what does that tell us about the use and misuse of language on today's internet.

Modifié par Olwaye, 06 octobre 2015 - 06:11 .

[Spectre4hire]

Orion Cadash and his adventures during the Jaws of Hakkon. Prepare for pics!

 

Spoiler

 

 

 Orion and crew after stopping the Jaws of Hakkon:

 

Spoiler

          

 

Orion, Dorian, and Cassandra posing after the final boss battle

 

Spoiler

   

[Cespar]

Cespar's smirk gives me life.

Spoiler

I haven't played Inquisition in a while, since I'm trying to get my Swtor's character ready for the new expansion. But, I hope all of you guys are doing well.

[90s Kai]

Cespar's smirk gives me life.

Spoiler

I haven't played Inquisition in a while, since I'm trying to get my Swtor's character ready for the new expansion. But, I hope all of you guys are doing well.

That smirk is glorious! I love it (and him).

[Bhryaen]

 

Snooping through the early thread posts... Wow, Harding definitely changed in the final product!

[Olwaye]

Not running the game on optimal can do that, on this particular clip she would look better with a beard

[vertigomez]

I like proto-Harding. She looked dwarfier!

[Tishina]

I like proto-Harding. She looked dwarfier!

I did too. I think the devs fell in love with her and made her look more human/prettier.

[Bhryaen]

It always kinda bugs me that Harding's scar is in almost the same face location as Cassandra's. Maybe they were tortured by the same villain- or both went against a Zorro-type who always leaves that same signature on his foes. Wonder if that was ever a discussion among the devs- or if the two characters were independently created by different artists on the team and when they recognized the parity, they were both so wed to their versions that they just said, "F it." Normally they do try to make such content consistently inconsistent to ensure every main character looks fairly unique, and it's not like that's the only scar type (or face location for it) available. Works on Harding though.

 

I like either version of Harding. Dwarfy = goodness. I do prefer the DAO dwarf girl look though- arms, hips, an' all- yeah, looks more solidly dorfy, and matches the heavier, stockier male build better which I think they got right in DAI.

 

Not running the game on optimal can do that, on this particular clip she would look better with a beard

That was one of the long-running discussions in the early days of the thread- whether the devs would make beards for girls, whether people would like to try 'em. I haven't seen any thus far, months later, so, looks like there was an answer... I'm unlikely to buck that trend...

 

A lot of great topics back then, much of it pure speculation since by pg 33 (early Nov, 2014) the game still isn't even released! Makes me recognize that my comments about DAI are likely to not be the first instance on the thread at this point...

[Vaseldwa]

Have yall seen this?   (warning trespasser spoiler) 

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=YYxZHQ_Z5MY 

[Bhryaen]

Have yall seen this?   (warning trespasser spoiler) 

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=YYxZHQ_Z5MY

Been meaning to comment on this... except, yeah, Trespasser spoilers...

 

Spoiler

I find it curious that Flemeth's magic tends to be blueish- the sparkle in Solas' eyes looking like a ring of lyrium- and especially that the special Mythal power that Solas gets is turning people to *ahem* stone.

[Tishina]

Have yall seen this?   (warning trespasser spoiler) 

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=YYxZHQ_Z5MY

Yep.

 

Spoiler

I'm wondering if the Titans might not be the Forgotten Ones of the Dalish pantheon, except that Fen-Harel was supposed to be able to walk among either the Forgotten Ones or the Creators. Of course, if Mythal gained something from the Titan she killed and Fen-Harel already had acquired some ability that let him walk among them, it might make sense. The titans are clearly tied to the Fade somehow (lyrium) and the Veil might be the reason they're asleep.

 

What I find most peculiar about Solas is how much he despises any bondage for elves or qunari, but he says to Varric that dwarves are just the dead arm of a once mighty giant (or something close to that, don't feel like looking it up right now.) Which suggests for some reason he thinks dwarves would BE better off as part of the titans' hive minds...

[Vaseldwa]

Been meaning to comment on this... except, yeah, Trespasser spoilers...

 

Spoiler

I find it curious that Flemeth's magic tends to be blueish- the sparkle in Solas' eyes looking like a ring of lyrium- and especially that the special Mythal power that Solas gets is turning people to *ahem* stone.

 

Spoiler

Its some Grade A Bull****, if you ask me! The ancient elves..just uuugh and just RAGE! So I think the elves of time past are responsible for all this BS. It wouldn't surprise me if they are the ones (or mythal) that created the blight. Kind of like Bio-terrorism. I mean all the trouble that has happened in thedas imo will doubt be traced back to the elven ancestors. One more theory, is that dwarves used to be really powerful mages until they were cut off from the titans.

 

Modifié par DwarvaVashoth, 09 octobre 2015 - 07:27 .

[Bhryaen]

How long do we gotta wait until Trespasser spoilers aren't a thing? I assume a new DLC coming out signals the end of spoiler alerts for previous content, but since T was the last DAI DLC...

 

 

Yep.

 

Spoiler

I'm wondering if the Titans might not be the Forgotten Ones of the Dalish pantheon, except that Fen-Harel was supposed to be able to walk among either the Forgotten Ones or the Creators. Of course, if Mythal gained something from the Titan she killed and Fen-Harel already had acquired some ability that let him walk among them, it might make sense. The titans are clearly tied to the Fade somehow (lyrium) and the Veil might be the reason they're asleep.

 

What I find most peculiar about Solas is how much he despises any bondage for elves or qunari, but he says to Varric that dwarves are just the dead arm of a once mighty giant (or something close to that, don't feel like looking it up right now.) Which suggests for some reason he thinks dwarves would BE better off as part of the titans' hive minds...

 

Spoiler

Ha! Hadn't thought of the reverse state of the Veil- i.e., not just that elves/Evanurans on one side of the Veil were stripped from access to what appears to be the source of their magic- Titan blood- but that the Titans were stripped from their access to the world of dreams/ memory/ spirits as well. Makes for a better reason that Cory's rift in the Veil "woke up" the Descent Titan- i.e,. not just cuz it was a big boom that scared it.

 

On Solas' remarks to Varric, he looked sorta insulting when he said it, so I'm not sure he was paying ancient dwarva a compliment. Although he was supposedly a rebel who cares about, well, his own people enough to throw the Evanuran world into ruin just to be nice to the "lessers" of his kind, Solas also seems intent (whatever his reservations may be) on destroying so many people- including descendants of those freed elvhen slaves- in the "real" world in order to restore power to his former rivals. This is why I'm a bit worried that Solas learns about the location of the Descent Titan- which- and I hope this doesn't become lore canon- may be the last of its kind. I'm not sure Solas has good intentions in that regard either or what his role in Mythal's Titan-killing he might have played. After all, he welcomed Mythal into himself for all that merging entailed.

 

I have to do research on the Forgotten Ones though...

 

Spoiler

Its some Grade A Bull****, if you ask me! The ancient elves..just uuugh and just RAGE! So I think the elves of time past are responsible for all this BS. It wouldn't surprise me if they are the ones (or mythal) that created the blight. Kind of like Bio-terrorism. I mean all the trouble that has happened in thedas imo will doubt be traced back to the elven ancestors. One more theory, is that dwarves used to be really powerful mages until they were cut off from the titans.

 

 

Spoiler

The first impression I got when I finished Trespasser was, *groan* "So all they built up with the Titans in Descent and now it's all about the elves?" I share your rage... And I was playing an elf (haha). I mean, what was the "real world" before the Veil? It obviously wasn't the disaster we see in "Hushed Whisper's" future, but rather some elfy paradise in the sky somehow combined with unspecified conditions on the earth. But there had to be a "real world" earth of sorts for there to have been dwarves and Titans on it to separate from. Regardless of the Veil there are always two polar opposites: pure Fade and pure "real" (ordered, structured, unchanging existence).

 

But then I started piecing together other info enough to see Titans/dwarva as the source of more power than they recognize now that they don't dream or have their collective consciousness with the Titan any longer. Perhaps before that elven attack on dwarves (and there was another codex from a book when you first get to the Library that talks about a dwarf-elf war at some point), the Fade was in significant ways being controlled or managed or "shaped" by Titans and/or dwarves. It's dwarves that keep a special library in Orzammar after all. I remember that Fade quote that mused about how the Fade might look different is dwarves could dream- whether stones and chunks of rock would just hover oddly in the air that way. Gotta wonder. Come on, Shaperate! Release the secret files! Hm, though if they've got a record of where all the remaining Titans are, maybe not a good idea to go public...

 

I'm also consoled at the thought that the devs can't exactly let Solas finish what Cory started and rip down the Veil. It would presumably mean the end of a tremendous amount of nations and peoples and history that they took a tremendous amount of time building lore for through three games. Solas said it: "your world would have to die." So for metagame reasons I'm not too worried that the ancient elves are going to get a chance to start in on their Vint-like magical power-crazedness all over again. The only way I could see them doing it would be by making DA4 the conclusion of the franchise with a few sweeping ME3-like endings that involves different outcomes of dropping the Veil depending on how you've played it up to then:

 

1. Solas manages to preserve the integrity of the "real world" without killing anyone despite removing the Veil because he gets redeemed and defeats the evildoer elf lords

2. Solas says "F all" and carries out his world-destroying plan to become the next evildoer elf lord- possibly with the new protagonist by his side or something (like it's actually the protagonist that does it, Solas out of the picture)

3. Everything goes to chaos like in "Hushed Whispers"

[Gilsa]

That was one of the long-running discussions in the early days of the thread- whether the devs would make beards for girls, whether people would like to try 'em. I haven't seen any thus far, months later, so, looks like there was an answer... I'm unlikely to buck that trend...

 

1. I've seen several, mainly on tumblr. There are some that are really dedicated to this type of dwarf and will back it up with fanart, which can be awesome based on how they present it. And then there are some who do it to be completely opposite of what they normally play. (i.e. Back in DAO, people would say "OK, I'm going to do a really EVIL play through and I'll use a dwarf for it.") There's a dissociation with the character because of it and I rarely see screenshots past Haven because they've gotten bored at that point. So, they're out there, but far and few in between. I don't use them because they weren't there to begin with and I feel that Bioware just added them to appeal to the Tolkien crowd. If the bald and receding hairstyles were going to be unisex and shared between all races, then by all means, share the facial hair with all races, too.

 

2. No clue on the grace period for Trespasser spoiler tags, but I think it's been out long enough and I'll be shocked if anyone doesn't know how it ends at this point because Solas is all anyone can talk about these days.

[Bhryaen]

1. I've seen several, mainly on tumblr. There are some that are really dedicated to this type of dwarf and will back it up with fanart, which can be awesome based on how they present it. And then there are some who do it to be completely opposite of what they normally play. (i.e. Back in DAO, people would say "OK, I'm going to do a really EVIL play through and I'll use a dwarf for it.") There's a dissociation with the character because of it and I rarely see screenshots past Haven because they've gotten bored at that point. So, they're out there, but far and few in between. I don't use them because they weren't there to begin with and I feel that Bioware just added them to appeal to the Tolkien crowd. If the bald and receding hairstyles were going to be unisex and shared between all races, then by all means, share the facial hair with all races, too.

 

2. No clue on the grace period for Trespasser spoiler tags, but I think it's been out long enough and I'll be shocked if anyone doesn't know how it ends at this point because Solas is all anyone can talk about these days.

1. Ah... I'm not a Tumblr user. I remember a post in those first 30 pages that was almost word-for-word what you mentioned about using a dwarf for an "evil" playthrough. Funny about the Tolkein-traditionalists given that there never seemed to be any instances of dwarven bearded ladies to make it canon, but I'm not as much of a Tolkein-enthusiast these days as a DA-enthusiast, so, I suppose I no know nuttin.

2. Yes, I've seen so many non-spoilered Trespasser spoilers elsewhere in the forums that I can't believe mods are patrolling it any longer (if they even were as of late).

 

Just had a bone to pick on the "Legion of the Dead" armor I've managed for Blunchard...

 

 

I can't help but think it's much closer in design to the DN's startup armor than DAO's Legion of the Dead armor. (I didn't have a picture of my DN's in it, so I resorted to a pic of Gorim in it after Klydia traded with him.) I mean, sure the color difference, and the two sets are very similar in DAO as it is, but the designs on the chest, shoulders, gauntlets, and stomach plate all correspond directly to the DN startup armor, not LotD armor. Obviously the chest plate design isn't a LotD symbol. Nothing outrageous, but I just felt a bit misled by the armor name. I suppose they couldn't call it "Aeducan Armor," could they?

[TobiTobsen]

The Legion of the Dead armor from DA:I is actually Sigruns Legion of the Dead scout armor and not the version the legionnaires are usually wearing.

 

 

So you're basically just wearing a sneaky medium armor, instead of the super heavy Legion armor. But try to explain that to scrawny topsiders who only see all that metal and plate.

[Tishina]

Spoiler

Its some Grade A Bull****, if you ask me! The ancient elves..just uuugh and just RAGE! So I think the elves of time past are responsible for all this BS. It wouldn't surprise me if they are the ones (or mythal) that created the blight. Kind of like Bio-terrorism. I mean all the trouble that has happened in thedas imo will doubt be traced back to the elven ancestors. One more theory, is that dwarves used to be really powerful mages until they were cut off from the titans.

 

Spoiler

Yeah, I'm not too wild about the demonization of elves they've turned to. Nothing like justifying an entire people's abuse and enslavement and slaughter for something a vague "they" were supposedly responsible for millennia ago. Obviously it's really their fault...

 

I hope they're really careful in what they have planned because the thrust of this is extremely troubling.

[Gilsa]

Pretty sure dwarves will be next in the blame game. We're the only ones that haven't been shown to screw things up on a global scale ... yet. =p

[vertigomez]

So my computer's been on the fritz for months, constantly crashing and generally being a pain in the butt, but today I managed to play DAI for two hours(!!!!!) before I had to go to work instead of the normal... five minutes and then my PC shuts off.

I don't have any pictures or anything relevant to say about dorfs except that I'm ridiculously happy I got to play my lil Lorna Cadash again.

[Gilsa]

I totally get why people get games on consoles because it's cheaper and upgrading computer parts are expensive, but the joy that I get from playing the game itself in addition to being able to mod the games, take screenshots, and keep the fangirlness (is that a word?) going long after I'm done playing with the game completely justifies the money I put into my computer. Granted I usually have to wait until tax refunds to help pay for it, but still. STILL. =p