46 réponses à ce sujet

[congokong]

Seeing both outcomes it seems this is another DA2 case of giving you the illusion of choice. Another being siding with the mages or templars yet ending up having very similar circumstances. Even the 3 mute wardens will side with whoever you don't side with in Legacy.

 

From what Larius says it sounds like he suggests not releasing Corypheus. Yet if you agree to side with him you end up freeing Corypheus anyway... except now you remove the possibility of using him to end the blights. This sounds like a pure negative. Also, without meta-gaming assuming Larius isn't being influenced by Corypheus' calling even when he's half darkspawn yet believing Janeka is doesn't make sense. Corypheus easily could be using Larius to stop Hawke from helping Janeka control Corypheus. At that point you just don't know.

 

Some might side against Janeka out of spite but that's a poor and petty reason to dismiss a weapon that could end the blights.

 

Is there any reason to side with Larius?

[Jaison1986]

Outside of metagaming, I don't really think there is an good reason to side with him. Especially when Janeka reveals what he actually did to Malcolm. 

 

I myself mostly sided with Janeka and then switched to Larius in the last second because I thought the dialogue was hilarious.

[themikefest]

I choose Larius because Janeka comes across as someone who wants power and will misuse it for her own gain.

[Reidbynature]

I think it's more a case of another one of those decisions that essentially has no real difference or impact in the game itself, but the implications for the future are potentially much different.  Hopefully Inquisition and future games manage to balance player choices consequences both for the future and within the games they are made in themselves.

[Krypplingz]

I usually side with Larius since I don't trust Janeka. 

1. She's trying to control a powerful being who required a healthy dose of blood magic to bind. But even caged, the being can penetrate the magic defenses of a large number of Dwarves and indoctrinate them to do his bidding. These plans never end well.

2. How is she going to use him to end the blight? Wave him at the darkspawn and they'll go away? I don't believe it's that simple. 

3. She sent assassins to Hawkes home/the siblings workplace. She endangered Hawkes family and thus she has to die. (Petty I know, but petty I am.)

 

Also, I prefer Larius route through the tower. Not this click a light, run about, click a light business. And golems are such a pain :C Give me Revenants and Arcane Horrors any day.

[congokong]

I usually side with Larius since I don't trust Janeka. 

1. She's trying to control a powerful being who required a healthy dose of blood magic to bind. But even caged, the being can penetrate the magic defenses of a large number of Dwarves and indoctrinate them to do his bidding. These plans never end well.

2. How is she going to use him to end the blight? Wave him at the darkspawn and they'll go away? I don't believe it's that simple. 

But despite how dangerous Corypheus is caged, Larius still wants to free him anyway. Is that any safer than freeing him but with the possibility of controlling him rather than just being forced into a brawl? Should something that could help against the blights (despite being given no details conveniently) be dismissed because it's dangerous? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Lavaeolus]

Larius wishes to kill Corypheus. You end up fighting and killing Corypheus anyway, or at least try to. May as well do so with a bit less egg on your face.

 

Only a bit less, of course, because I'm pretty sure Hawke unknowingly actually fails to kill him.

[Sir DeLoria]

I always side with Janeka first and then betray her later.

I really dislike Janeka and this way save the other three wardens who were with them. The sarcastic dialogue choice after you betray her is awesome.

The final outcome is more or less the same either way.

[Lulupab]

There is a way to save the mute wardens but I forgot how. All I know is first you side with one of them then change sides at the last moment. The wardens will leave to bring reinforcements instead of staying and fighting.

[TheMadHarridan]

I only sided with Janeka once for the sole purpose of seeing how it was different. Every other time I've sided with Larius. I don't trust Janeka, and I think her belief that her "super special" spell can bind an ancient darkspawn magister to her will is ludicrous. Saying that we need to side with Janeka because she thinks she MIGHT be able to control Corypheus in hopes that she MIGHT be able to stop future Blights is very similar to saying we must side with the Architect in DAA because he is attempting to stop future Blights by awakening the darkspawn (even though he is responsible for the last Blight). Even though Larius is a jack*** for doing what he did to Malcolm, I'd much rather side with the guy who wants to kill the evil magister than the delusional Warden who wants to "control" him.

 

And all that aside, I much prefer Larius' path through the tower. His is much less frustrating than Janeka's colored light debacle.

[Lazarillo]

I started out siding with Larius, since they were both crazy, but Janeka is pretty clearly being manipulated, so she was dangerously crazy.  However, my/my Hawke's opinion was that the only way to really deal with the mysterious darkspawn was a more permanent solution anyway, since it was established that the seal was breaking anyway and nobody present was really in a position to fix that.  Plus, while Janeka was clearly being mind controlled, there wasn't any indication that Larius kidnapped Leandra under anything other than his own will, so the "revenge" factor was there, too, so I flipped alliances at the end.

[X Equestris]

I only sided with Janeka once for the sole purpose of seeing how it was different. Every other time I've sided with Larius. I don't trust Janeka, and I think her belief that her "super special" spell can bind an ancient darkspawn magister to her will is ludicrous. Saying that we need to side with Janeka because she thinks she MIGHT be able to control Corypheus in hopes that she MIGHT be able to stop future Blights is very similar to saying we must side with the Architect in DAA because he is attempting to stop future Blights by awakening the darkspawn (even though he is responsible for the last Blight). Even though Larius is a jack*** for doing what he did to Malcolm, I'd much rather side with the guy who wants to kill the evil magister than the delusional Warden who wants to "control" him.
 
And all that aside, I much prefer Larius' path through the tower. His is much less frustrating than Janeka's colored light debacle.

This. There are a lot of assumptions in deciding to help Janeka. Larius isn't a great guy, but one could say the same about a lot of the Wardens in general. There is no controlling Corypheus.

[nerd_gawdess]

Side with Janeka then betray her

[congokong]

I only sided with Janeka once for the sole purpose of seeing how it was different. Every other time I've sided with Larius. I don't trust Janeka, and I think her belief that her "super special" spell can bind an ancient darkspawn magister to her will is ludicrous. Saying that we need to side with Janeka because she thinks she MIGHT be able to control Corypheus in hopes that she MIGHT be able to stop future Blights is very similar to saying we must side with the Architect in DAA because he is attempting to stop future Blights by awakening the darkspawn (even though he is responsible for the last Blight). Even though Larius is a jack*** for doing what he did to Malcolm, I'd much rather side with the guy who wants to kill the evil magister than the delusional Warden who wants to "control" him.

 

And all that aside, I much prefer Larius' path through the tower. His is much less frustrating than Janeka's colored light debacle.

Whose to say what spells are ludicrous in DA? I don't pretend to understand it, just like how I have no idea how Corypheus could possess somebody right when he's about to die. I only learned about it online because it's not something I ever suspected in-game because it's constantly changing fiction.

 

The Architect's situation is pretty different. He's already proven to be ruthless and incompetent. Thinking darkspawn had already proven to be a bad thing and because brood mothers' require other species to reproduce peaceful coexistence wasn't really feasible. That and the taint destroying everything pretty much means the Architect has to go.

 

With Corypheus I like what Varric says. "Worth the risk. If he doesn't help it's one more darkspawn to stick a bolt in. No big deal." It simplifies it a little but it makes sense. Instead of dueling Corypheus (also risky), why couldn't they try to use him against the darkspawn? If it goes sour (which it does) then they kill him. That's exactly how it goes when you side with Janeka. Has Janeka proven to be untrustworthy enough to even try? Yes, she attacks your family to abduct you but that seems to be waivered by the "Grey Wardens do what they must" BS. When I sided with Larius I just felt kind of stupid for doing exactly what Janeka was going to do minus the possibility of an end to the blights. Here I am helping this somewhat amnesiac hunchback darkspawn/human hybrid while the Grey Wardens are trying to stop me. Hawke will kill Janeka and the 3 mute wardens just to prevent trying.

[KaiserShep]

Personally, I wish I could just kill the whole lot of them. As Grey Wardens, none of them seemed particularly reliable for what Grey Wardens are meant for anyhow.

[congokong]

Personally, I wish I could just kill the whole lot of them. As Grey Wardens, none of them seemed particularly reliable for what Grey Wardens are meant for anyhow.

I wanted to kill both Larius and Janeka for running away like cowards once Corypheus woke; just like how I wanted to kill Tallis at the end of MotA for being a lying qunari. What is it with DA2's DLCs and me wanting to kill its supporting characters at the end? Turns out I would have unintentionally stopped a reborn Corypheus if I did kill Larius/Janeka.

[KaiserShep]

I didn't mind Tallis, but Larius gave me the same impression as Ruck. Killing him would probably just be doing him a favor.

[AVPen]

I really dislike Janeka and this way save the other three wardens who were with them. The sarcastic dialogue choice after you betray her is awesome.

Except from the way that Casandra made it sound like during the DLC epilogue, the Grey Wardens told the Chantry that none of the Wardens who were previously there made it out alive and that Larius/Janeka was gone/not there when they got arrived, which seems to suggest to me that the possessed Larius/Janeka went and killed the three other Wardens to keep them from revealing what happened with Corypheus.

[Sir DeLoria]

Except from the way that Casandra made it sound like during the DLC epilogue, the Grey Wardens told the Chantry that none of the Wardens who were previously there made it out alive and that Larius/Janeka was gone/not there when they got arrived, which seems to suggest to me that the possessed Larius/Janeka went and killed the three other Wardens to keep them from revealing what happened with Corypheus.

I don't remember it that way. She just says something about the Wardens sealing off the area from the chantry afaik.

[Northern Sun]

I side with Janeka because I follow Varric's logic about it. If you side with Larius you release Coryhpeus and kill him, end of story. From the moment Janeka presented her plan  I (and my Hawke) knew it'd fail, but if it had even a slight chance of success…

 

When it didn't, it was as Varric put it. "Just one more darkspawn to stick a bolt in."

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Though I went into Legacy spoiled on the Janeka/Larius thing, I pretty much agree with the OP. Larius is half-Darkspawn himself, and then suddenly tries to talk us out of siding with Janeka because Corypheus is secretly in control of her mind? They say the guilty ones are the first to throw accusations around. Larius may have been right (as I already knew at the time), but he most certainly didn't feel right to me.

 

Also find it more satisfying to put the ghoul out of his misery and let Janeka suffer possession. Consider that punishment for the whole Carta thing (that's right, my headcanon is that Hawke didn't "miss" that, but allowed it as sick payback).

 

That, and seeing Cory go all "b!tch, please" on Janeka's spell first thing after waking. That was also pretty awesome.

[DracoAngel]

I have never been able to bring myself to side with Janeka. Call me crazy, I just don't like the thought of siding with someone who was clearly being used as some psycho darkspawn's puppet and sending crazy ghouled out dwarves to either kill me(and/or my sibling) for my blood or capture me to bring me to said psycho darkspawn. I know, I'm picky that way.

 

Larius may have been half darkspawn himself (but in the end, aren't all Wardens? They carry the same taint as the darkspawn, its not like the corruption stops, its just slowed down. So you're basically paling around with someone who is part darkspawn that is possessed by a spirit. And then if your sibling becomes a Warden...) and had done some reprehensible things, like threatening to kill Hawke's mother (which, yea, that miffed me a bit), but he regretted it. I like to think Malcolm Hawke would have helped to keep Corypheus locked away because he understood the danger this darkspawn posed. He just didn't like having to use Blood Magic to do it.

 

And the only reason Larius had wanted to free Corypheus was because he wanted the darkspawn killed. The seals were fading and soon wouldn't hold Corypheus anyway. So better to try to deal with the problem permanently now instead of waiting and see if they could reinforce the seals. Who could have foreseen that Corypheus was going to end up possessing someone no matter what? As far as I understood it before then, only the archdemon's soul could transfer to another darkspawn (or anything nearby with the darkspawn taint).

 

Which now that I think about it... when Corypheus possessed whoever at the end, shouldn't that have killed them, like what happened with the archdemon? Ya know, the whole soulless vessel thing for the archdemon's soul entering one that isn't thing?

[congokong]

I have never been able to bring myself to side with Janeka. Call me crazy, I just don't like the thought of siding with someone who was clearly being used as some psycho darkspawn's puppet and sending crazy ghouled out dwarves to either kill me(and/or my sibling) for my blood or capture me to bring me to said psycho darkspawn. I know, I'm picky that way.

 

Larius may have been half darkspawn himself (but in the end, aren't all Wardens? They carry the same taint as the darkspawn, its not like the corruption stops, its just slowed down. So you're basically paling around with someone who is part darkspawn that is possessed by a spirit. And then if your sibling becomes a Warden...) and had done some reprehensible things, like threatening to kill Hawke's mother (which, yea, that miffed me a bit), but he regretted it. I like to think Malcolm Hawke would have helped to keep Corypheus locked away because he understood the danger this darkspawn posed. He just didn't like having to use Blood Magic to do it.

 

And the only reason Larius had wanted to free Corypheus was because he wanted the darkspawn killed. The seals were fading and soon wouldn't hold Corypheus anyway. So better to try to deal with the problem permanently now instead of waiting and see if they could reinforce the seals. Who could have foreseen that Corypheus was going to end up possessing someone no matter what? As far as I understood it before then, only the archdemon's soul could transfer to another darkspawn (or anything nearby with the darkspawn taint).

 

Which now that I think about it... when Corypheus possessed whoever at the end, shouldn't that have killed them, like what happened with the archdemon? Ya know, the whole soulless vessel thing for the archdemon's soul entering one that isn't thing?

Technically all Grey Wardens are part darkspawn, but Larius is way past simply bearing the taint. He has undergone a major metamorphosis and has spent years residing in the Deep Roads near Corypheus. And yet we're to assume this hunchback darkspawn/warden hybrid is less influenced by Corypheus than Janeka?

 

Spite aside, I'm not seeing the reason to side with Larius. I'm surprised how many do. If Janeka says she has a spell to control Corypheus who could be an instrument against the blights, who am I to argue? I mean, how can Corypheus possess a Grey Warden without killing them and then walk off? How can they possess them period? Whose to say a spell to control a powerful darkspawn isn't possible? And if it doesn't work then resort to what Larius ends up doing which doesn't make sense either from this dialogue.

 

(possibly slightly paraphrased)

Hawke: "One step closer and you're dead."

Larius: "Better to die than see Corypheus free."

 

And yet Larius frees Corypheus if you side with him.

 

...

 

It seems many players don't appreciate the extent of the darkspawn threat or just don't care to role-play it. Shouldn't any weapon against them be considered; especially when there isn't much more risk than following Larius' plan? It's like how so many people are adamant about destroying the Anvil of the Void despite the dwarves nearing extinction with a blight 24/7 underground. Or in Mass Effect 2 for those who've played it and how many players have Shepard blow up the Collector Base because "they'll win without it." And the reapers are a much bigger threat than the darkspawn.

[Dabrikishaw]

My preferred path is siding with Laruis so I can deal with his less annoying dungeon then switching to Janeka after the dialogue revealing what Larius did to make Malcolm Hawke cooperate.

[SmilesJA]

I sided with Janeka, I just don't work with ugly people.