90 réponses à ce sujet

[thruaglassdarkly]

I recently played a heroic play-through again, so the morality questions are pretty fresh on my mind:

 

Dark Ritual: I've never felt any particular pang of guilt for accepting Morrigan's offer.  I understand there is a bit of the Beowulf "this will come back to haunt you" vibe embedded in the decision, but by this point in the game my relationship with her is usually somewhere between getting along to the only true friend she's ever had; I don't have any reason to believe she is going to double-cross me later. And as others mentioned, you're basically trading a possible problem in the future for an actual problem in the present. That is not an immoral choice (naive maybe, immoral no).

 

Behlen: This one is difficult. There are a few subtle hints about his progressive ideas for Orzammar, but the game goes pretty far out of the way to portray him as power-craven and blood thirsty. Unless you find the right random letters and find the right shopkeeper, you don't really get an clear picture of some of Behlen's more progressive ideas. The decision is easier if you already know how things will work out in the epilogue, but then youre injecting your own knowledge onto a character that would not have these facts in front of her/him.  I like the explanation from the city elf character above.  If a person had suffered left that much oppression, I could see him/her supporting someone like Behlen in spite of his personality.

 

Logain: You spare Logain for the same reason you spare Zeveran.  Yes, he is a rat-bastard deserving of execution, but he's also a renowned general possessing skills that would be immensely useful for dealing with the immediate threat.  War does not always allow you to pick your friends.  Also, there's no reason he can't stand trial and face the music once all this darkspawn trouble has been resolved.  Alistair's response comes off a little petulant, although to his credit it is one of the few times in the game where he is decisive.  I usually side with Alistair since the game forces you to choose one or the other (for game customization, because I don't like Logain, and because Alistair is one of my favorite characters) but I could see the justification for the alternative.

 

Morrigan Romance: My characters are almost always female, so romancing Morrigan isn't really an option.  That said, I'll side with what has been mentioned above; hearts do funny things sometimes.  Also, if you go out of your way to be kind to Morrigan the entire game, she eventually returns the favor.  Romance would work in that context without compromising "good guy" values.

 

Blood Magic/Conner: This one only makes sense to me if you choose dialogue options that avoid mentioning the Circle of Magi, or if you already chose to side with the Templars in the Circle quest (actually I'm not sure if that precludes using the lyrium option.  I have never played the game that way, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  Honestly, this decision does not make a lot of sense form an "evil" perspective either, since the most expedient/cold-hearted choice is to kill Conner and end the threat right there.  This one feels like stretch to me. 

 

In my opinion, the games two ugliest moments were left off the list, that is the ability to murder both Liliana and Wynne.  I would love to hear someone's "good guy" justification for this.

[SmilesJA]

I don't rationalize my decisions, I'm always right! 

[Hawkamania]

Blood Magic/Conner: This one only makes sense to me if you choose dialogue options that avoid mentioning the Circle of Magi, or if you already chose to side with the Templars in the Circle quest (actually I'm not sure if that precludes using the lyrium option.  I have never played the game that way, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  Honestly, this decision does not make a lot of sense form an "evil" perspective either, since the most expedient/cold-hearted choice is to kill Conner and end the threat right there.  This one feels like stretch to me.

 

If you choose the Templars you cannot use the lyrium option through the Circle.

[Hero]

Actually I think that's the worst outcome as far as Alistair is concerned, because Loghain dies a hero, and his crimes during the Blight will be a footnote in history. Alistair doesn't think Loghain deserves the chance of redemption because his actions have hurt so many people and they deserves justice. The way Alistair sees it (remember Alistair has a fairly black & white sense of right and wrong) letting Loghain live is an insult to the memories of the dead, that's why he wants make sure that Loghain is punished for his crimes and is remembered only as a villain.

So Alistair will probably never forgive my character...

 

That sucks...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

So Alistair will probably never forgive my character...

 

That sucks...

Wait until Awakening. While I don't think he's precisely over it, he does note some nostalgia for adventuring with your character and some wish he didn't have a job preventing him from joining you on this one. (And while if you listen closely to the dialogue in the epilogue if you sacrifice Loghain you will still note some degree of simmering anger, he does strike me as being somewhat calmer than if Loghain's still alive and only a few steps away from the throne.)

[HTTP 404]

I am actually trying to do human noble.  What would be the rationalization to killing the elves?  If I wanted to RP a "good" guy

[theskymoves]

Blood Magic/Conner: This one only makes sense to me if you choose dialogue options that avoid mentioning the Circle of Magi, or if you already chose to side with the Templars in the Circle quest (actually I'm not sure if that precludes using the lyrium option.  I have never played the game that way, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  Honestly, this decision does not make a lot of sense form an "evil" perspective either, since the most expedient/cold-hearted choice is to kill Conner and end the threat right there.  This one feels like stretch to me. 

 

In my experience, before dealing with Connor's demon:

 

If you side with the Templars, but don't kill Jowan when he is encountered in the dungeon, you can use the blood magic option to save Connor.

 

If you side with the Templars, and DO kill Jowan, Connor has to die, since using the Circle mages is no longer an option, even if Irving and other random mages were spared. *sideeyes Moira Cousland's stupid Connor killin' face over there*

[Darkly Tranquil]

Wait until Awakening. While I don't think he's precisely over it, he does note some nostalgia for adventuring with your character and some wish he didn't have a job preventing him from joining you on this one. (And while if you listen closely to the dialogue in the epilogue if you sacrifice Loghain you will still note some degree of simmering anger, he does strike me as being somewhat calmer than if Loghain's still alive and only a few steps away from the throne.)

This is true, but he's also still grumbling about it when Hawke encounters him in DA2, so it obviously remains at least something of a sore point for him if he's still mentioning it seven years later.

[Hero]

So which do you guys think would be better? doing the dark ritual? or having Loghain make the sacrifice?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

So which do you guys think would be better? doing the dark ritual? or having Loghain make the sacrifice?

Which one will turn out better depends on Morrigan's plans, and we don't know those plans yet. If her intentions are flatly good or if the good and evil she intends cancel out (or if she just plans to keep Urthemiel more or less neutral in the world's conflicts), then there shouldn't be any sacrifice since the world gets to keep all of the potential sacrifices more or less for free. If she intends evil using Urthemiel's power then even the Warden's life might be an acceptable trade, much less Loghain's.

[Hawkamania]

Today I replayed Orzammar and this time I chose Behlen, while still trying to be a "true hero" and doing what must be done for the "greater good". At first it was hard for me not to choose Harrowmont once again (this is only my second full playthrough), but one conversation I had with Behlen after being able to get my first audience with him reassured me that he was the right choice, at least of the two available.

 

During the initial meeting I confronted him about a couple of dirty rumors, one of which that he'd murdered his brother, he then responded asking why I would support him if I didn't like him and I told him it was because I thought he was the strong King that Orzammar needed (which we know ends up being relatively true from the end game epilogue).

 

I just love the fact that you're able to make a choice that in some ways seems dark on the surface but in reality is what's best for those affected as a whole and you're able to convey that during the moment leading up to the final choice rather than simply justifying it to yourself outside of the game afterwards. Another major prop to Bioware.

[Hero]

I'm curious, what do you guys think a novelization of Dragon Age and it's expansion and dlc would be like? with the male human noble as the warden and with a fully fleshed out personality; how do you think it would all play out? what personality, character development, and decisions fit the most?

 

You can also share your ideas for what the other wardens would be like if you want.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Given that Bioware have been pretty clear that there is no official canon version of the story (only their in-house "canon"), I'd be very surprised to see them do a novelisation of stories they have already done in game form. The books and comics are used to fill in lore that would be hard to integrate into the games; novelising the games doesn't fill any foreseeable useful role in furthering the franchise.

[Hero]

Given that Bioware have been pretty clear that there is no official canon version of the story (only their in-house "canon"), I'd be very surprised to see them do a novelisation of stories they have already done in game form. The books and comics are used to fill in lore that would be hard to integrate into the games; novelising the games doesn't fill any foreseeable useful role in furthering the franchise.

I know, it was just a hypothetical question. Just to help with my RPing.

[Hero]

So do you think Loghain should have a chance at redemption? Is he worthy of it? Is executing him like that really justice?

on another matter, what about the architect? trusting him seems dangerous, but he seems rather sincere about wanting peace...

Edit: Now that I think about it, I kinda imagine the human noble being kinda like the Starks from Game of Thrones, specifically Jon Snow, so what decisions do you think fits that type of character?

[Hawkamania]

So do you think Loghain should have a chance at redemption? Is he worthy of it? Is executing him like that really justice?

on another matter, what about the architect? trusting him seems dangerous, but he seems rather sincere about wanting peace...

Edit: Now that I think about it, I kinda imagine the human noble being kinda like the Starks from Game of Thrones, specifically Jon Snow, so what decisions do you think fits that type of character?

 

Jon Snow would allow Loghain to redeem himself, Ned would have cut his head off. 

[Hero]

What about all the other decisions?

[Dabrikishaw]

Is it contradictory to have my character put someone like bhelen on the throne of orzammar, but also execute loghain and have Alistair be king alone?

No. That's basically what I always do.

[Nukekitten]

So do you think Loghain should have a chance at redemption? Is he worthy of it? Is executing him like that really justice?

I'm... not big on the idea of Justice. It changes too much and I've seen a lot of things done in the name of Justice that I don't like or think are particularly fair.

Letting Loghain live is the compassionate choice. And so, disregarding any secondary consequences, the one I'd prefer. The question to my mind is simply whether the secondary consequences mean that you're not being compassionate to the great many who might be influenced by his continued existence.

In a perfect world we'd get to be compassionate to everyone, but that's not always how it works out. Sometimes you've got to say that to be compassionate to the many, the one's got to suffer or die. But that's not justice, it's compassion and pragmatism - which is significantly easier to have meaningful debates about if someone's doing something you don't agree with
 

on another matter, what about the architect? trusting him seems dangerous, but he seems rather sincere about wanting peace...

A species that persists solely through the squick and rape. Nu-uh. Not going to happen.
 

Edit: Now that I think about it, I kinda imagine the human noble being kinda like the Starks from Game of Thrones, specifically Jon Snow, so what decisions do you think fits that type of character?

Dunno, got about half way through the first book, said, "These people are all idiots." and haven't read it since ;

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

So do you think Loghain should have a chance at redemption? Is he worthy of it? Is executing him like that really justice?

on another matter, what about the architect? trusting him seems dangerous, but he seems rather sincere about wanting peace...

Edit: Now that I think about it, I kinda imagine the human noble being kinda like the Starks from Game of Thrones, specifically Jon Snow, so what decisions do you think fits that type of character?

Most of the Starks probably would have taken his head. Possibly even Jon, who despite being willing to help men who did bad things work for redemption takes a dim view of having his authority questioned by the end.

 

As for what the Warden should do, I believe allowing Loghain to work for redemption is probably the more moral path, since I take a dim view on wasting lives in vengeance. I will note, however, that justice/revenge is not the only argument to kill Loghain; just because trusting Loghain does not see the Warden burned does not mean the Warden was smart to do so at the time.

[Mike3207]

 

 

I will note, however, that justice/revenge is not the only argument to kill Loghain; just because trusting Loghain does not see the Warden burned does not mean the Warden was smart to do so at the time.

If the Warden were smart, he/she would have never listened to Flemeth. He/she would have left Ferelden and be drinking tequilas in Nevarra.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If the Warden were smart, he/she would have never listened to Flemeth. He/she would have left Ferelden and be drinking tequilas in Nevarra.

That lasts until a Warden senses him/her. Then the Warden has some explaining to do vis a vis "if you don't need to take the Joining, we probably need to hang you for desertion."

[Mike3207]

That lasts until a Warden senses him/her. Then the Warden has some explaining to do vis a vis "if you don't need to take the Joining, we probably need to hang you for desertion."

If that's the case, how do you explain them not going after Anders?

[Nukekitten]

I don't think there can be enough Wardens to have a presence in the average community. And even if there were one or two, they'd be relatively easily assassinated.

"Hail fellow ward-- ERK *Gurgle* "

Besides, the Wardens numbers would decline sharply in the surrounding realms. There'd be a blight on and all

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If that's the case, how do you explain them not going after Anders?

I wasn't talking about them going after Anders. I was talking about Wardens feeling the presence of the Taint in the Warden, and attempting to force the Joining on the Warden. And if the Warden says anything like "I'm not doing that again" the best they can expect is to be "offered" a place in the Wardens. If I remember correctly, the reason this doesn't happen with Stroud's group is because Stroud and Anders have an implied friendship.