112 réponses à ce sujet

[Gamemako]

Bashing isn't very aesthetic. Realistic fighting can only work in a very gritty game and RPGs can't be gritty.

Maybe something like XCOM:EU would work with gritty.

More importantly, bashing isn't realistic either. Much more like MMA, brute-force hammering really only occurs after the outcome is already decided and it's time to finish off the loser. Games really struggle doing close combat because of the extreme variability in form and difficulty in describing the precision of attacks. I'm a fencer, but I cannot imagine how a game would do fencing properly because as you progress from a novice and an Olympic champion, the attacks get smaller, not larger.

//EDIT: Also, common misconception note:
 

From what I recall though, staves in DAO were far shorter than polearms would be. I still think it is yet another impediment as to why BioWare as of yet haven't introduced spears et al.

Most polearms were 5-6 feet in length. Pikes are the infantry exception, being a weapon used typically in closed formation and protected on the sides (if you can't rotate your phalanx to face an enemy, you are very, very dead). Cavalry lances also tended to be longer, because they had to reach out from the horse.

[Pressedcat]

More importantly, bashing isn't realistic either. Much more like MMA, brute-force hammering really only occurs after the outcome is already decided and it's time to finish off the loser. Games really struggle doing close combat because of the extreme variability in form and difficulty in describing the precision of attacks. I'm a fencer, but I cannot imagine how a game would do fencing properly because as you progress from a novice and an Olympic champion, the attacks get smaller, not larger.//EDIT: Also, common misconception note: Most polearms were 5-6 feet in length. Pikes are the infantry exception, being a weapon used typically in closed formation and protected on the sides (if you can't rotate your phalanx to face an enemy, you are very, very dead). Cavalry lances also tended to be longer, because they had to reach out from the horse.

To be fair, I was talking about the likely scale of polearms in comparison to the other two handed weapons in DA (ie on the large size), but that is a very valid point.

[DaySeeker]

I find spears profoundly boring.  

[Puppy Love]

I find spears profoundly boring into my skull.

 

Corrected that for you.

[Broganisity]

Ah yes...the spear... (poke, poke, poke)

How I've longed to be able to duck behind a shield and stab someone (poke, poke, poke). Defense. Offense. Glory. You think spears would be easy to animate in comparison to other weapons (poke, poke, poke) that would have you swing and chop in a variety of questions, but alas our age-old weapon rarely pokes its head out of the primordial muck that is has been thust into. (poke, poke, poke).

[Puppy Love]

Hmmmm that does make me consider one thing of annoyance...  what kind of spear style should be represented in the game?  Hrm, at best they'd only do one...  So with or without the shield, thrown or long...  so many considerations...  I'd be happy with any so long as it was there really...

[Gamemako]

To be fair, I was talking about the likely scale of polearms in comparison to the other two handed weapons in DA (ie on the large size), but that is a very valid point.

Ah, I see. Actually, the current staves are not totally unreasonable as spears, and neither are most two-handed swords in the series in terms of length if you're considering them to be a specific variety of Renaissance weapon typically called Zweihänders in modern English (nevermind the naming shenanigans). Those are weapons typically between 5 and 6 feet (150-180cm) of total length, with a few exceptions on the high and low side. So while it may look huge, it's the length of a real weapon that saw proper use in combat. The part that is typically missing in gaming, of course, is that their length provided a strong advantage for thrusting, not for adding heft to a swing (which just slows you down).

As for making a character look good while wielding a spear, it's not particularly difficult, especially compared to DA two-handed attacks that involve smashing the ground or spinning around a few times. I wish I could draw, or I'd do some DA-appropriate designs with and without a shield, but I can't.
 

Hmmmm that does make me consider one thing of annoyance... what kind of spear style should be represented in the game?

A preposterous fantasy one, obviously. No way around it.

[metatheurgist]

... what kind of spear style should be represented in the game?

A preposterous fantasy one, obviously. No way around it.

It's DA. That means you be wielding telephone poles, cabers, oak trees, because that's the style.

[Indomito]

I support this. Spears are great. I wish Bioware release at least a dlc with spears on it.

[In Exile]

More importantly, bashing isn't realistic either. Much more like MMA, brute-force hammering really only occurs after the outcome is already decided and it's time to finish off the loser. Games really struggle doing close combat because of the extreme variability in form and difficulty in describing the precision of attacks. I'm a fencer, but I cannot imagine how a game would do fencing properly because as you progress from a novice and an Olympic champion, the attacks get smaller, not larger.

 

I had no idea. I was thinking about using warhammers, though. I figured those were just bashing weapons? But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know anything about actual medieval fighting. 

[Gebert]

I had no idea. I was thinking about using warhammers, though. I figured those were just bashing weapons? But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know anything about actual medieval fighting. 

Well, you could use them to thrust with, or hook the opponents limbs and weapons. Schola Gladiatora has a good video on different ways to use them on the Youtubes:)

[Han Shot First]

Hmmmm that does make me consider one thing of annoyance...  what kind of spear style should be represented in the game?  Hrm, at best they'd only do one...  So with or without the shield, thrown or long...  so many considerations...  I'd be happy with any so long as it was there really...

 

The spear & shield combo could be fun.

 

 

 

[Puppy Love]

The spear & shield combo could be fun.

 

It could, but I fear it being no different than the sword and board style they already have.  If we go more skirmisher/wolf pack tactics with a hunting spear type set up, we could give it to rogue as a rogue two handed weapon.  Kind of like a ranger/hunter set up.  It makes sense, especially with the flanking and back stab of the rogue.

 

In fact I hate the support two weapon fighting gets due to not deserving it so much that I refuse to play melee rogues because of the forced dual wielding.  If I had another melee option it would be ideal, just so I could actually enjoy a melee rogue.

[In Exile]

Well, you could use them to thrust with, or hook the opponents limbs and weapons. Schola Gladiatora has a good video on different ways to use them on the Youtubes:)

Thanks. Looked them up. They're cool!

[Reidbynature]

It's DA. That means you be wielding telephone poles, cabers, oak trees, because that's the style.

 

What's that?

 

Spoiler

[sunnydxmen]

another spear thread really it is too late to add them now.

[Reidbynature]

another spear thread really it is too late to add them now.

 

Meh.  They're spears.  You can always simply throw them in at the last moment. 

[Han Shot First]

another spear thread really it is too late to add them now.

 

For DA:I, yes. But there's always the next DA game. Unless DA:I is a commercial flop it probably won't be the last game of the series.

 

I'd love to see spears and polearms make their way into gameplay at some point. The more variety in weapons, the better.

[Puppy Love]

another spear thread really it is too late to add them now.

 

 

Another spear thread?  Have there been many?  Have they spoken as passionately as myself?  I do so hope so.  If enough of us speak up, perhaps one day Bioware will get the point and Thedas will finally give the spear it's due.

[sunnydxmen]

Another spear thread?  Have there been many?  Have they spoken as passionately as myself?  I do so hope so.  If enough of us speak up, perhaps one day Bioware will get the point and Thedas will finally give the spear it's due.

 

yes there been others.

[sunnydxmen]

we only have a few months left for release i dont think they can just add them now.

[Puppy Love]

we only have a few months left for release i dont think they can just add them now.

 

Sure but that doesn't mean should say nothing.  There hopefully will be other games.

[Gamemako]

I had no idea. I was thinking about using warhammers, though. I figured those were just bashing weapons? But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know anything about actual medieval fighting.

War hammers and maces were used for hurting opponents through armor. Example from a classic program, and using a polearm to boot. To extend the martial arts comparison, I don't have to punch through your face to take you out of the fight.

Sure but that doesn't mean should say nothing. There hopefully will be other games.

And there's always multiplayer, where they might be willing to implement an MP DLC if the work can carry over to a future title or expansion.

[Mirrman70]

I could see polearms but not specifically spears. A spear is almost only a thrusting weapon, I mean yeah you could twirl it around like a quarterstaff but in the end it's only sharp point is meant for poking. I would prefer bladed polearms such as glaives or halberds (most people confuse Halberds and poleaxes, halberds are more spear plus axe blade, a poleaxe is kind of just a really long axe). I feel halberds/glaives could be used as a a hybrid between battleaxe and spear animations and would thus allow more freedom and "flash".

[Puppy Love]

I could see polearms but not specifically spears. A spear is almost only a thrusting weapon, I mean yeah you could twirl it around like a quarterstaff but in the end it's only sharp point is meant for poking. I would prefer bladed polearms such as glaives or halberds (most people confuse Halberds and poleaxes, halberds are more spear plus axe blade, a poleaxe is kind of just a really long axe). I feel halberds/glaives could be used as a a hybrid between battleaxe and spear animations and would thus allow more freedom and "flash".

 

So what if it's mostly a thrusting weapon?  Has worked great throughout all our existence as humans as "mostly a thrusting weapon."

 

Also you can slash with the spear tip and make substantial cuts in the flesh doing it. 

 

The problem with polearms is that they are too varied and too different in how they are wielded.