156 réponses à ce sujet

[Giantdeathrobot]

They failed at integrating the spec correctly in both games. In Origins it was tolerable, since you were a Grey Warden and answered to no one, but devout Andrastian should still distrust you at best, and be openly hostile at worst, yet apart from a handful of comments you don't get any bad rep.

 

It was worse in DA2 since the game's central conflict was about mages vs Templars, and you are explicitely told that the Kirkwall Templars are draconian. Yet Hawke (or Merill) can go around using blood magic in broad daylight without anyone saying anything, when in lore that would probably create a district wide panic and an instant witch hunt from the Templar's part. Even in Act 1 when Hawke is just a random nobody trying to be incognito.

 

If they can't integrate it into the game's lore properly, I say get rid of it. The spec was wildly overpowered in both games so I'm not sad to see it go. Necromancer seems more interesting anyway.

[Hizoku]

My point. Lol. Anders is a sociopath that blew up a church, and he doesn't even support it. But I'm supposed to accept that blood mage was undoable, but necromancy is doable, story wise?

its a cultural thing, Blood Magic is seen as the worst thing any mage can do because of it's association with demons and the ridiculous amount of power it gives to an already powerful individual.

[ObserverStatus]

Definitely, I love mind control spells. Illusion was my favorite school in Skyrim, and I'm planning on being a cipher in Pillars.

[Darkly Tranquil]

The common level of acceptance for necromancy remains to be seen, but nothing in the lore suggests that it is illegal.  Templars do not specifically hunt down necromancers, and I've never heard mention of necromancy being against the laws of the Chantry or any nation.  In addition to the various moral arguments against blood magic and its historical importance to the Tevinter Imperium, the Chantry forbids it because of the ability to control minds, the apparent link to demons, and the fact that it cannot be easily negated by the Templars.  Necromancy shares none of these characteristics, so while it may be seen as distasteful, nothing about it has caused the Chantry to ban its practice outright.

I accept your point, but as I said, we know so little about the status of necromancy in DA at this stage (barring Nevarra) that we are basically speculating. My point was that given that the Chantry is pretty hostile to anything involving the dead (other than cremation rites), a broad tolerance of necromancy would seem fairly counterintuitive. I suspect, because it has never even been mentioned as being a thing in DA until recently, that it's a more recent addition by the story team to get a around the difficulties associated with having player blood mages, so we know little about the Chantry's views on it. Necromancy would appear to be a compromise option that allows people who get a kick out being the "evil sorcerer" archetype to play their style, without the lore headaches associated with blood magic.

Personally, they seem awfully similar to me and I find it hard to countenance why the Chantry, which takes a deeply conservative view on all things magical (they even forbid Dalish magic and shapeshifting as heretical), would tolerate necromancy. Obviously, Bioware have decided to have it in the game, so they must have devised some justification for it to be at least permissible, but it (to my mind) seems to run contrary to what we of the Andrastian attitude to matter of magic and the dead.

[Medhia_Nox]

I would be very excited if the Necromancer dealt heavily in the Entropy/Spirit schools and didn't deal with raising the dead at all (even though I'm aware raising the dead is Spirit).  

 

What Quentin does is create a flesh golem... raising skeletons isn't blood magic, it's Spirit evidently.  

 

As for Blood Magic - if they removed it from DA altogether, nobody would be happier than me. 

[thats1evildude]

Quentin likely was a blood mage because he needed a lot of power, and hey, if you're cutting up women to fashion them into a Bride of Frankenstein, what do you care about the ethical implications of blood magic?

[bluebullets]

I don't think it's relevant whether or not it is illegal. It is still readily disturbing, scary, and "wrong" in many peoples minds.

[raging_monkey]

Of they do allow the pc to use blood magic again it would prob be a one time deal

[X Equestris]

Necromancy solution: "Mr. Inquisitor.. you just raised corpses! I frown on that! -10 relationship!"
blood mage: "Mr. Inquisitor.. you just used blood magic! I frown on that! -10 relationship!"
its the same problem, even if it isn't blood magic

No, the reaction to the blood mage is more like "A maleficar! Kill it!!"

Necromancy is tolerated, even if it is viewed with suspicion and disgust. Necromancy didn't demand the sacrifice of thousands of slaves, and it didn't let the Magisters walk into the Fade. Blood Magic did that.

[Icy Magebane]

I accept your point, but as I said, we know so little about the status of necromancy in DA at this stage (barring Nevarra) that we are basically speculating. My point was that given that the Chantry is pretty hostile to anything involving the dead (other than cremation rites), a broad tolerance of necromancy would seem fairly counterintuitive. I suspect, because it has never even been mentioned as being a thing in DA until recently, that it's a more recent addition by the story team to get a around the difficulties associated with having player blood mages, so we know little about the Chantry's views on it. Necromancy would appear to be a compromise option that allows people who get a kick out being the "evil sorcerer" archetype to play their style, without the lore headaches associated with blood magic.

Personally, they seem awfully similar to me and I find it hard to countenance why the Chantry, which takes a deeply conservative view on all things magical (they even forbid Dalish magic and shapeshifting as heretical), would tolerate necromancy. Obviously, Bioware have decided to have it in the game, so they must have devised some justification for it to be at least permissible, but it (to my mind) seems to run contrary to what we of the Andrastian attitude to matter of magic and the dead.

Yep, that's pretty much the exact reason they gave...  it's a way to participate in deviant behavior without technically breaking the law. Since Cassandra is Nevarran and will likely have a positive view of necromancy (maybe?), there is also some justification for good or neutral characters to practice it as well.   I would be shocked if no one mentions how distasteful it seems or if you aren't asked to tell your zombie to wait outside before entering an Orlesian dinner party, but no one will attempt to arrest the PC over this, and you can still lead the Inquisition without violating a law that is universal in all nations except Tevinter.

[Navasha]

In the previous two games, I always had to tell myself, that the reason the PC can use blood magic is because it was a special "stealthy" type just using your own life force.    This could explain why the PC could use it without anyone knowing it and also why you couldn't use the full force of blood magic like commanding demons, and such.   

 

The one time I played a blood mage I only ever used it for the health to mana conversion and stayed away from using its actual spells. 

 

I don't mind that its gone.   To do it right, it needs to be much more powerful, and have FAR more drawbacks. 

[Joseph Warrick]

If it doesn't make sense for story reasons then it's fine.

 

I'm more disappointed that there are weapon and armor restrictions like in DA2 as distinct from DA:O. Warriors being limited to heavy armor and a single sword for example (sigh).

[Darkly Tranquil]

Yep, that's pretty much the exact reason they gave...  it's a way to participate in deviant behavior without technically breaking the law. Since Cassandra is Nevarran and will likely have a positive view of necromancy (maybe?), there is also some justification for good or neutral characters to practice it as well.   I would be shocked if no one mentions how distasteful it seems or if you aren't asked to tell your zombie to wait outside before entering an Orlesian dinner party, but no one will attempt to arrest the PC over this, and you can still lead the Inquisition without violating a law that is universal in all nations except Tevinter.

According to The World of Thedas (p.56) the necromancers in Nevarra (the Mortalitasi) are a somewhat controversial group due to their perceived political influence over the ruling class. There is an inset piece on the page of a letter written by the Starkhaven Ambassador which implies a reasonable degree of distaste for the practices of the Mortalitasi among the more traditional Andrastian nations and seems to imply that they are widely suspected of sinister activities. Based on this, it would suggest that necromancy would be grudgingly tolerated at best, but people's reactions to it might vary on a more individual basis than the almost universal abhorrence that blood magic inspires. So, I guess I can see it allowing the player to do bad mojo without Bioware needing to directly address it or to drop the veil of stupid over everyone, like in DA2. Nonetheless, I still find the distinction unconvincing; death/life force magic is still messing with souls and the dead.

[Eelectrica]

With DA MP, they may well add a Blood Mage to the character pool at some point.

I'm disappointed they had to cut Blood Magic, but I understand the reasons as well.

They turned Blood magic into an absolute joke in DA2. Hopefully it makes a return when they feel they can do it properly.

[Beerfish]

Once again this could also be down to their telemetry data for previous games.  If not alot of people used blood magic or became one in previous games that could be  reason.  I for one almost never every took that up and not because of it being blood magic but because the minuses you go when using the abilities was not worth using it imo.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Darkly Tranquil:  It's my understanding that animated skeletons (the Animate Dead spell) are Fade spirits that are forced into animating the bodies. 

 

Not unlike spirits who enter trees to make Sylvans.

[Icy Magebane]

According to The World of Thedas (p.56) the necromancers in Nevarra (the Mortalitasi) are a somewhat controversial group due to their perceived political influence over the ruling class. There is an inset piece on the page of a letter written by the Starkhaven Ambassador which implies a reasonable degree of distaste for the practices of the Mortalitasi among the more traditional Andrastian nations and seems to imply that they are widely suspected of sinister activities. Based on this, it would suggest that necromancy would be grudgingly tolerated at best, but people's reactions to it might vary on a more individual basis than the almost universal abhorrence that blood magic inspires. So, I guess I can see it allowing the player to do bad mojo without Bioware needing to directly address it or to drop the veil of stupid over everyone, like in DA2. Nonetheless, I still find the distinction unconvincing; death/life force magic is still messing with souls and the dead.

I agree with your post except the highlighted part...  we don't actually know that souls exist in Thedas (somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember seeing anything like this), and the only undead we've seen have been corpses inhabited by spirits or demons.  So again, it's a technicality, but necromancy only involves desecrating corpses, not the "souls" of the dead.  Most cultures frown upon contact with spirits, and some refuse to practice such magic at all, but again, spirits and demons are not directly related to mortals (as far as we know).

[themageguy]

MP class.

Calling it now

[Mikoto8472]

Yes, I do.

[PinkysPain]

I think it was just not wanting to impliment anything to make blood mages significant. "we don't want to have to put in stuff to make blood magic feel significant, so lets just add a necromancer tree (which is freaking blood magic anyway!)

 

Letting us play hero blood mages just doesn't go together with their wanting to prove to us that the cause justifies the means by example after example after example after tiresome example.

 

Mages are ticking nuclear time bombs and blood mages doubly so ... now with no more exception allowed as far as the second goes.

[Lillian]

Just saying, necromancy is not blood magic, at least, not exclusively. Necromancy would more or less fall under the School of Spirit, if organized by the Circle's terms. It is magic that's frowned upon, but is by no means equitable to blood magic. 

Necromancy is even seen as sacred by Nevarrans, who, might I remind you, are Andrastian. Necromancy does not oppose the Chantry or the norm in any way like blood magic, because it is (probably) spirit magic.

[Eveangaline]

I'd rather not be able to be a blood mage then be able to be a blood mage but no one reacts to it.

[Mentxi]

Blood magic was a fun mechanic (maybe a little game breaking), but irrelevant to the history when it shouldn't be. I love the new mage specs, the best part of them is that, well, they are new. With Morrigan around I was hoping for the shapeshifter though...

[TheJediSaint]

I prefer defeating my enemies by making them bleed, not the other way around.