If bw ever tried to make a sp with co-op in the main campaign and lynch mob would form from with the way people are reacting to the DAMP news.
No they wouldn't because a Co-OP implementation of the campaign would actually be preferable to the way Multiplay is handled now.
One fear I have is the lobbies, it was very difficult in ME3 for friends to join. The invites through Origin hardly ever worked.
I'm looking forward to the MP. It sounds like it could be fun, it adds a whole new progression (its kind of Diablo 3, except good). My only concern is if they limit the PC UI like the did with controllers. I can think of no legitimate reason for that other than MP balance. I can't think of any good games that have limited action bars. ESO was fun for less than a month, until it got so boring spamming the same 3 abilities over and over, while holding 2 situational abilities doing nothing. Guild Wars and GW2 were pretty fun, but I got tired of them after a while too, the free to play made it last a bit longer though.
You really want to get into a semantic discussion? Because claiming that having a tactical camera option is "different gameplay" is going to accomplish just that. Same with the ability to pause combat. You know what I meant, so let's move on.
As for your second point, I could argue that you have the inability to prove that the changes weren't due to accommodating MP. Why do I have the burden of proof?
These features were present in both previous DA titles, and suddenly they aren't. MP wasn't present in both previous DA titles, and suddenly it is. MP = no pausing so hotkeys suddenly become ultra-important, and consoles have a limited number of hotkeys. I am not making any leaps here by asserting that they have to work around these facts when developing the gameplay system (which is the same for MP and SP).
This is welcomed news for me as I was expecting it. Also I pretty much enjoyed the heck out of ME3 MP so if it's as good as that then I'm looking forward to it!
I love semantic discussions. How does the tactical camera not constitute a radical gameplay difference, and why would they bother to design the entire SP campaign around the existence of tactical camera if MP was informing SP?
Because you are the one making definitive claims, and I am not. If you only wanted to say that it's possible MP influenced SP design but that we don't really have enough info to make that claim, then we don't disagree in any meaningful sense.
This is why I'm not letting the whole "gameplay difference" thing go. In Mass Effect 3, SP had paused radial menu with ability selection and MP did not. In Inquisition, SP has pause with tactical cam and MP does not. Therefore, it's clear that BioWare is historically fine with SP and MP playing differently. To support your claim that the ability limit is because of MP, you'd have to provide some reasoning why BioWare would draw the line at ability limits when they 1) did not do so in ME3 and 2) are fine with Sp having pause and tactical cam.
I'm not making definitive claims. I'm making logical deductions, and expressing a concern for the existence of a MP mode informing the development of the SP gameplay. You don't have to agree with my deductions, but they are solid. And you don't have to be concerned for the future of Bioware SP RPGs, but in my opinion you should be based on the evidence.
Semantics: When I am saying "the gameplay is the same here," what I mean by "gameplay" is the available abilities, how the monsters behave, how the monsters respond to your attacks, cooldowns, etc. When you are saying "the gameplay is different," what you mean is that there are extra features on top of the base system. The base system is exactly the same. Being able to use the tactical mode does not change the "gameplay" that I'm referring to. Being able to pause mid-combat does not change it either.
The above example demonstrates my less than enthusiastic reception of DAMP.
To me good RPG's are all about Legacy. They are games that we the players love to enjoy again and again. RPGers are in for the long haul, not the newest flash in the pan current rages. I continue to play games that matter to me.
The Baldurs Gate Series, Icewindale, the TES Series. These games have a HUGE legacy to them.
We may want to play a game YEARS after it is out of fashion.
Will we be able to do this with DAMP? 1 year in, how about 5 years in, heck how about 10 years on?
Think about firing up DAI 5 years in the future, do you think that Multi-player button will still work? Or will it be a sad testament to the current lack of foresight.
Let the DAMPers enjoy this obviously transient thrill they are experiencing right now, us RPGers will lovingly embrace the game long after they have moved on.
For those of us that care about the future of RPG gaming and the legacy of the games, Thank God for good ol' Single Player.
Guest_Stormheart83_*
Yeah, because any one that would want to team up with friends for some co-op in the amazing DA universe must be a idiot. Maybe you could go on a rant about DA 2 or ME 3 next, because we all know that games are incapable of having a great SP experience as well as a awesome MP aspect after all look at the failure of The Last of Us, Diablo 1-2, BG 2, Borderlands 1-2 I could go on but I won't, but I could.Because After ME3 and now this Bioware's word ain't worth squat,Words can't express how angry I am at Bioware for ruining a Franchise by appealing to the lowest of low common denominators by tacking on a MP mode.Well this is the last time I will ever trust Bioware enough to pre order or to get on Day 1, from now on I'm going to wait till their games are at least 50% off since clearly they knew this all along and have bring stringing those of us who hate MP along.
As a constellation many people are still play me3 mp. So bw does know how to make a worth wild mp.
I love semantic discussions. How does the tactical camera not constitute a radical gameplay difference, and why would they bother to design the entire SP campaign around the existence of tactical camera if MP was informing SP?
Because the Tactical Camera is for party control. It allows you to see your whole team (and battlefield). A mode where you are in control of a single character kind of negates the use of the Tactical Camera. The added benefit of being able to see health and status of enemies is also negated because there is no pause.
Thus Tactical Camera would serve no purpose in MP.
Meh... looks ok. An MMO style dungeon crawler mode.
Could have been worse.
Two whole years! Wow, isn't that something?
Let's see give or ten. Or fifteen
In order for that to be a valid scenario ME3 SP would need to not be played in 10-15 years, solely because of the inclusion of MP. If people continue to play ME3 10-15 years from now then your point is null. If people don't play ME3 SP now your point is also invalid as the MP would have extended the life of ME3. In order for you point to actually mean something the inclusion of MP has to lessen the life of the game. I don't play ME3 SP any more (I will in the future when I'm not playing other stuff) and I'll probably throw in a bit of MP as well (I enjoyed it at the time).
Anyway, MP that is completely seperate from the SP will only shorten the life of the SP if decision made with MP in mind turn out to be detrimental to the SP campaign sufficient to lessen its replayablitiy and the MP isn't good enough to encourage long term players to continue playing it.
In the case of DAI the only decision that might fulfill this criteria is the *potential* limit of 8 active abilities at a time. Nothing else, to me, seems like an effect from MP.
everyone is just mad cause they dont want it to turn into call of duty or halo, where 90% of players just do multiplayer.
Indeed. I know I am in the minority, but I am still playing Origins and even DA2 occasionally, and would instantly buy any dlc that added to or continued the campaigns of those games.
Why is that not as valid as someone playing ME3MP?
That's perfectly valid, and no-one has said otherwise.
The point being made was that Iakus believes adding MP shortens the life of a SP game. ME3MP continuing until now is peoples way of attempting to refute this belief. The whole arguement is rather silly since we don't have any kind of sample size to contend with, we've got ME3 and that's it.
Guest_Stormheart83_*
I grew up playing D&D,cowboys and Indians you know Role Playing! So this idea that only a true RPGer plays single player games is BS I'm exited about getting together with my friends and playing some co-op in the amazing DA universe. If you don't like that DA has multiplayer fine, but don't act like you're some special RPG guru who is all knowing ME 3 multiplayer is still going and if DA:I multiplayer dies then so what I will still have a amazing SP gaming experience.The above example demonstrates my less than enthusiastic reception of DAMP.
To me good RPG's are all about Legacy. They are games that we the players love to enjoy again and again. RPGers are in for the long haul, not the newest flash in the pan current rages. I continue to play games that matter to me.
The Baldurs Gate Series, Icewindale, the TES Series. These games have a HUGE legacy to them.
We may want to play a game YEARS after it is out of fashion.
Will we be able to do this with DAMP? 1 year in, how about 5 years in, heck how about 10 years on?
Think about firing up DAI 5 years in the future, do you think that Multi-player button will still work? Or will it be a sad testament to the current lack of foresight.
Let the DAMPers enjoy this obviously transient thrill they are experiencing right now, us RPGers will lovingly embrace the game long after they have moved on.
For those of us that care about the future of RPG gaming and the legacy of the games, Thank God for good ol' Single Player.
Indeed.
I don't know why people think MP lengthens the life of a game. If anything it shortens it.
Citation needed.
So what is the goal of MP? Doesn't affect SP (good), Items gained in MP don't transfer to SP, No MP achievements etc.. Is the whole purpose of MP just so people can play with friends? If MP has no point other than playing with friends why not do it as a DLC or Expansion.
The goal is to have fun.
What feedback are they providing, how encounters work in MP and what is fun in MP. how does applying what is fun and works in MP to SP game which has different maps and environments that need encounters especially designed for them improving the SP game.
The abilities exist in both SP and MP. As a result, we simply have more eyes on those features (i.e. people hired to work on the multiplayer that otherwise wouldn't have been hired/assigned) and combat mechanics in the game. As such, more iteration can occur and someone from the SP or MP team are just as capable of fixing bugs in these systems.
I grew up playing D&D,cowboys and Indians you know Role Playing! So this idea that only a true RPGer plays single player games is BS I'm exited about getting together with my friends and playing some co-op in the amazing DA universe. If you don't like that DA has multiplayer fine, but don't act like you're some special RPG guru who is all knowing ME 3 multiplayer is still going and if DA:I multiplayer dies then so what I will still have a amazing SP gaming experience.
Don't let the naysayers get under your skin. They're just worried that MP will impact SP in a negative fashion (the example of an 8 ability slot limit is the only one that comes to mind). In a few days everyone will have calmed down enough to think it through and return to the normal calm of BSN (hah!).
Why do people keep saying no sustainable abilities? Was there a confirmation on this I missed? I thought we had barely looked through the skill trees.
The goal is to have fun.
It's kind of sad that this needs to be pointed out. I mean personally I spend a sizeable chunk of my yearly income on PC's and games (and trading cards and board games and !!!!books!!!!) not to write off lists of achievements, but to have fun!
Gloomfrost, on 26 Aug 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:
The above example demonstrates my less than enthusiastic reception of DAMP.
To me good RPG's are all about Legacy. They are games that we the players love to enjoy again and again. RPGers are in for the long haul, not the newest flash in the pan current rages. I continue to play games that matter to me.
The Baldurs Gate Series, Icewindale, the TES Series. These games have a HUGE legacy to them.
We may want to play a game YEARS after it is out of fashion.
Will we be able to do this with DAMP? 1 year in, how about 5 years in, heck how about 10 years on?
Think about firing up DAI 5 years in the future, do you think that Multi-player button will still work? Or will it be a sad testament to the current lack of foresight.
Let the DAMPers enjoy this obviously transient thrill they are experiencing right now, us RPGers will lovingly embrace the game long after they have moved on.
For those of us that care about the future of RPG gaming and the legacy of the games, Thank God for good ol' Single Player.
If the game is good, people will continue to play it, even if official servers go down in x years. C&C mp was supposed to be dead post gamespy shutdown but unofficial servers popped up within a week to replace them. Still have quite a few people playing Kane's Wrath (5 years old) and Zero Hour (11 years old).
But of course, that isn't relevant because mp is the devil and all that enjoy it should feel ashamed. Or something.
My testament to happy fun times in me3 mp: http://social.biowar...aco&platform=pc
Why do people keep saying no sustainable abilities? Was there a confirmation on this I missed? I thought we had barely looked through the skill trees.
We've seen plenty of footage and skill trees by now. There's a whole skills thread if you want images, and sustainables are non-existant.
If you can find one example of sustainable abilities existing then please link it to me because I would genuinely want to see it.
Indeed.
I don't know why people think MP lengthens the life of a game. If anything it shortens it.
That might be the most ridiculous thing I've read in this forum.
Nvmd how ridiculous that statement is, what's stopping the people enjoying MP from firing up the SP of that game 10 years from now?
Isn't your precious Baldurs Gate 2 like a perfect example of that?
Why do people keep saying no sustainable abilities? Was there a confirmation on this I missed? I thought we had barely looked through the skill trees.
If you look at any of the ability trees seen thus far (there is a thread dedicated to them) then you will notice all abilities are either circles (passive) or squares (actives). There are no other shapes that would indicate sustained abilities are available. It is still an assumption, but one that seems likely at this point. However, I don't necessarily consider this a bad point. It could end up being good depending on how they end up being replaced.
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