2661 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

When did I ever say to focus on the MP? All I ever said was to mention it earlier, that is my point. No need to throw fireworks and showcase it like GOW acension did.   MP is not the biggest feature of the game, that is clear, and hopefully  it remains to be true that DAI doesnt suffer in the least due to it. But I feel it is important and yes does have and affect on peoples perception.  People dont need to be told or shown all this SP hype for years and then at the last minute ":oh and it has MP too"

But you realize the Catch-22 here for BioWare, correct? If they market MP early, then it will be spun negatively that MP is going to be just as/more important than SP. If they announce it late, they get accused of some bizarre sort of bait-and-switch (which it isn't).

[SofaJockey]

Even a little talk would have sent this forum into a frenzy, a frenzy much, much worse than the past day.

 

I think the last day has been pretty calm.

 

If there had been an MP requirement for SP.

If the MP content that was there was gated behind paywalls.

 

That would have been mayhem.   Maaaayhem.....

 

Much of what we have had is either from the unconvinced or the unconvinceable.

[Lee80]

 

 

Regarding preorders, is there anything stopping people from adjusting their preorders?  I mean I don't preorder often, but I don't preorder at a place that ensures my money is gone before I actually get the product.  Does upfront, non-refundable preordering exist?

If you preordered the game on PSN you cannot get a refund.  (that's any game preorder not just DAI)

[Paul E Dangerously]

I disagree. Almost any game can use optional, and I repeat optional, multiplayer. Just because a game has optional multiplayer it doesn't mean a gamer is being forced to socialize. It is mainly a feature for gamers who are interested in being able to play multiplayer in the game they like. So no, I don't consider the reasoning of a franchise being single player or not all games needing multiplayer as valid reasoning if multiplayer is completely optional and non-impacting on the SP experience.

Just look at The Elder Scrolls series. Bethesda seems to have felt no need to offer multiplayer for their "single player" franchise and instead gamers interested in both got a weak version of that series in the form of an MMO. So the gamers interested in the series who are also interested in multiplayer got a bad game and have to pay for an extra game. Even in that franchise multiplayer could absolutely work without resorting to making a separate and weaker game experience mainly because some gamers hate multiplayer with a passion as soon as it is added as an optional component.

I have yet to see anyone who is for the inclusion of multiplayer forcing anyone who doesn't want to play multiplayer to play online. It is just an optional component and nothing more.

 

Bethesda sold millions on Skyrim. No MP whatsoever.

 

And also, they had nothing to do with TESO at all. It's their publisher, ZeniMax, who holds the rights. They went over Beth's head, made an entirely new studio to do the IP - and hired a bunch of ex DAOC people to do it.

 

They won't force it because the fans at large don't want it. You'll get some people who do, but the vast overwhelming majority of TES fans are happy with it staying the way it is.

[Stayler]

 
 Wildly successful.
 

 Wildly successful? Are we talking about the same game? So what if it made money that dose not mean it's a good game.

[DisturbedJim83]

There is a big difference between character customization and offering a single player and multiplayer experience. Character customization isn't actual gameplay.

There may already be games which offer multiplayer but this doesn't mean franchises gamers like should only always remain single player.

And what same courtesy? You are pretty much denying gamers who like both in their games to get multiplayer in the franchise they want because of no real reason. And no, I don't think multiplayer being offered with other games is a real reason. If optional multiplayer doesn't affect your single player experience in any way whatsoever there is no reason to not have it. The gamers who prefer a single player experience still have their single player experience even with optional multiplayer. Nothing is being taken away.

It works both ways for I and others who came into Dragon Age because it was and until now has been a "pure SP" franchise are now effectively being told by the developer:

 

"sorry your no longer making us as much profit as we would like so because we want more profit we are going to crowbar in a MP mode because we can make more money from the pro MP crowd You can either like it or get lost".

 

So for people like me who want a decent SP RPG that has Dragons and is available on PC What are we supposed to do ? Because right now Our only alternative is hope that maybe once every 4-8yrs Bethesda might decide to release a Elder Scrolls game.Due to the amount of money and time I have invested into both this Franchise and The PC to play it and a select few other games at 2K/4K on the highest settings and having paid for this game in full upfront(not putting down a $10 pre order then paying the rest on launch day)I'm not in a position to say "screw this I'll take my money elsewhere" so even though all the warning signs say "ME3 debacle round 2: The Dragon Age Edition) I have no choice but to hope Bioware is being truthful this time with their "assurances"

 

In effect we have had MP "forced" upon us because we have had to pay for content that we have no intent of ever using personally I'd rather they have a "2 Tier" pricing system where those who are going to use the MP pay the standard $60 and if you don't want the MP you get a version with it disabled/locked off for lets say $50/$55.

 

Its not an "entitlement" post more of a give us a option to play a franchise we love without having to pay for feature we'll never use similar to how the do "bolt ons" for cell phone contracts  i.e if all you want is a calls and texts package that's all you pay for however if you'd like 4G internet well you can add that to your package for another $5( likely a bad analogy but at 1:45am its the best I can do tbh  ) 

[JeffZero]

 Wildly successful? Are we talking about the same game? So what if it made money that dose not mean it's a good game.

 

One of my favorite games of all time, ME3. I'm quite satisfied.

[CronoDragoon]

 Wildly successful? Are we talking about the same game? So what if it made money that dose not mean it's a good game.

I'm talking about the MP. As for the game itself, this isn't the thread to discuss our opinions of ME3.

Spoiler

It's baller.

[Zu Long]

Apologies if I was unclear. I just wanted to set up a contrast for the sake of intelligibility. A game that'd is played in real-time and based on action and in the moment gameplay is very different from a game based on RNG rolls and pure tactics/strategy.

On PC, DAO and DA2 were very much like the tactical/strategy type of games - and both the control scheme and the UI reflected that design. On console DA2 seems to have introduced more action elements and these created serious difficulty spikes and problems - the best examples being the Corypheus boss battle and the Ancient Rock Wraith, each of which had telegraphed attacks that had to be dodged in real time.

So far all of the gameplay videos show a stronger shift toward action combat. The top-down gameplay has only been featured from the console UI and only to pause and issue orders before "jumping back" to single character action combat. The MP video pushes this even further into solo character gameplay.

All of this introduces a problem from a challenge POV, because it pushes the design further away fr purely isometric strategy.

 

 

But as you already pointed out, they were moving away from purely isometric strategy before any multiplayer existed, in part because of the fact that this isn't a PC exclusive game the way Origins originally was. If the criticism is that DA2 at high difficulties required some real time movement as well as tactical positioning/round by round micromanagement, and you worry that DAI moves even further away from it, then you should already have picked up that DAI wasn't ever going to swing back towards that isometric ideal of turn by turn nightmare mode. The fact that warriors have fast roll/dodges, that the Dragons hit vast ares of the battle field with real-time swooping fire-runs- We already knew BOTH those things, and neither is geared toward turn by turn at nightmare difficulty.

 

That doesn't change that in DA2 on PC, I found that pause and play helped a lot with setting things up and getting out of combat with minimal damage to the party, and since that will be even more important in DAI with the limited healing resources especially at higher difficulty. I see this not as Nightmare turning into DMC or XCOM, but ultimately requiring both good timing, and good planning, and I look forward to that challenge.

[rymajn3]

So for people like me who want a decent SP RPG that has Dragons and is available on PC What are we supposed to do ? Because right now Our only alternative is hope that maybe once every 4-8yrs Bethesda might decide to release a Elder Scrolls game.Due to the amount of money and time I have invested into both this Franchise and The PC to play it and a select few other games at 2K/4K on the highest settings and having paid for this game in full upfront(not putting down a $10 pre order then paying the rest on launch day)I'm not in a position to say "screw this I'll take my money elsewhere" so even though all the warning signs say "ME3 debacle round 2: The Dragon Age Edition) I have no choice but to hope Bioware is being truthful this time with their "assurances"

 

DA2. No multiplayer. Yet the SP was a huge letdown. 

 

This stuff happens with games that... *gasp* have no MP! So why is it that the MP is always to blame?

[kheldorin]

This sounds like a generalized concern that would have existed regardless of multiplayer's inclusion.  DA2's combat was deliberately changed to that way, to the plus for some and to the minus for others.

That said, I still feel like an MP mode could exist with DAO's combat style.  We just didn't go with DAO's combat style.

How? Pausing is such a core part of DA:0's combat style. Unless pausing is implemented in MP, SP and MP are going to have to be designed and balanced separately. In ME, the difference is less noticeable because time dilation isn't a huge part of the combat so it's fine it they share the same combat design. In DA:I, the only way that they can share the same design is if pausing is no longer a core part of the design or pausing is implemented in MP.

 

Personally, I'm fine if pausing is no longer a core part of the combat design but I can tell you that a lot of SP people will be angry with that.

[Stayler]

I'm talking about the MP. As for the game itself, this isn't the thread to discuss our opinions of ME3.
 

So what? I was talking about the single player.

I'm not discussing about ME3 i'm just using it as an example.

[CronoDragoon]

How? Pausing is such a core part of DA:0's combat style. Unless pausing is implemented in MP, SP and MP are going to have to be designed and balanced separately. In ME, the difference is less noticeable because time dilation isn't a huge part of the combat so it's fine it they share the same combat design. In DA:I, the only way that they can share the same design is if pausing is no longer a core part of the design or pausing is implemented in MP.
 
Personally, I'm fine if pausing is no longer a core part of the combat design but I can tell you that a lot of SP people will be angry with that.

I didn't really pause that much in Origins and DA2. But I was also super awesome at making tactical chains in my squad AI screens, so that whenever Blood Mage Merrill got down in health, she'd warp to my warrior, then deactivate Blood Magic, then use a potion, then do some other stuff, then reactivate Blood Magic when it was ready again.

I also....kind of broke Dragon Age 2's combat system by stacking stun on my warrior and Isabela. And people say status effects in DA2 were nerfed....

[JeffZero]

I was all over pause in Origins, so I'd hate to see its usefulness diminish. It hasn't really looked like it will, though, to me anyway.

 

In 2 I think I just kind of assaulted everything that moved with powerful swings until it bit the dust.

[Stayler]

One of my favorite games of all time, ME3. I'm quite satisfied.

Good for you. Btw you are just one human compared to a lot of other opinions. Look at the user score. http://www.metacriti...c/mass-effect-3

[Zu Long]

It works both ways for I and others who came into Dragon Age because it was and until now has been a "pure SP" franchise are now effectively being told by the developer:

 

"sorry your no longer making us as much profit as we would like so because we want more profit we are going to crowbar in a MP mode because we can make more money from the pro MP crowd You can either like it or get lost".

 

So for people like me who want a decent SP RPG that has Dragons and is available on PC What are we supposed to do ? Because right now Our only alternative is hope that maybe once every 4-8yrs Bethesda might decide to release a Elder Scrolls game.Due to the amount of money and time I have invested into both this Franchise and The PC to play it and a select few other games at 2K/4K on the highest settings and having paid for this game in full upfront(not putting down a $10 pre order then paying the rest on launch day)I'm not in a position to say "screw this I'll take my money elsewhere" so even though all the warning signs say "ME3 debacle round 2: The Dragon Age Edition) I have no choice but to hope Bioware is being truthful this time with their "assurances"

 

In effect we have had MP "forced" upon us because we have had to pay for content that we have no intent of ever using personally I'd rather they have a "2 Tier" pricing system where those who are going to use the MP pay the standard $60 and if you don't want the MP you get a version with it disabled/locked off for lets say $50/$55.

 

Its not an "entitlement" post more of a give us a option to play a franchise we love without having to pay for feature we'll never use similar to how the do "bolt ons" for cell phone contracts  i.e if all you want is a calls and texts package that's all you pay for however if you'd like 4G internet well you can add that to your package for another $5( likely a bad analogy but at 1:45am its the best I can do tbh  ) 

 

Yeah, good old Bethesda, they'd never take the Elder Scrolls and run to massively multiplayer...wait. :-P

 

In all seriousness, the disk comes with plenty of things that you'll probably never use. I got through ME3 without ever seeing Tali or Mordin die, but damned if I didn't pay for someone to be able to access that content. Paying for parts of the game you don't personally use isn't being ripped off, it just means you chose not to experience that part of the game. They put on 200+ hours of SP content, and threw in some multiplayer in case that seemed like fun to you. If not, it has no effect on the rest of your game.

[Allan Schumacher]

How? Pausing is such a core part of DA:0's combat style. Unless pausing is implemented in MP, SP and MP are going to have to be designed and balanced separately. In ME, the difference is less noticeable because time dilation isn't a huge part of the combat so it's fine it they share the same combat design. In DA:I, the only way that they can share the same design is if pausing is no longer a core part of the design or pausing is implemented in MP.

 

Personally, I'm fine if pausing is no longer a core part of the combat design but I can tell you that a lot of SP people will be angry with that.

 

My only real need for pausing in DAO is when I want to give simultaneous orders to a variety of players.  If I am only controlling one character (which is often as I let tactics handle most stuff) I don't need to pause the game that often.

[SofaJockey]

One of my favorite games of all time, ME3. I'm quite satisfied.

 

Also mine. Sank 1,000 hours into it. Best value for money game I've ever played.

Now we have DAI multiplayer, DAI is significantly improved on top of what already looked awesome. Bring it on.

[Tarkov33]

How? Pausing is such a core part of DA:0's combat style. Unless pausing is implemented in MP, SP and MP are going to have to be designed and balanced separately. In ME, the difference is less noticeable because time dilation isn't a huge part of the combat so it's fine it they share the same combat design. In DA:I, the only way that they can share the same design is if pausing is no longer a core part of the design or pausing is implemented in MP.

 

Personally, I'm fine if pausing is no longer a core part of the combat design but I can tell you that a lot of SP people will be angry with that.

Yeah, let's just let each one of the 4 people playing to have control over pausing and playing, I'm sure that won't anger anyone or cause massive arguments. /s

[CronoDragoon]

Good for you. Btw you are just one human compared to a lot of other opinions. Look at the user score. http://www.metacriti...c/mass-effect-3

Again, this isn't the place. I'm more than happy to point you to the ME3 fan review thread, where you can learn what fans thought about the game.

[JeffZero]

Good for you. Btw you are just one human compared to a lot of other opinions. Look at the user score. http://www.metacriti...c/mass-effect-3

 

Bombed to blazes by folks who exercised their right to voice their dissent, especially following the original ending fiasco, yeah. I do feel bad for them that they didn't enjoy one of the best games I've played, but I can't let myself fixate on that, since I am such a niche gamer to begin with that I virtually guarantee the majority of those that didn't enjoy ME3 get a heckuva lot more out of the gaming industry at large than I ever will. Instead, I'll merrily march beside the 734 positive user reviews.

[JeffZero]

Sorry, Crono. I'm not helping you discourage the discussion. 

[In Exile]

This sounds like a generalized concern that would have existed regardless of multiplayer's inclusion. DA2's combat was deliberately changed to that way, to the plus for some and to the minus for others.
That said, I still feel like an MP mode could exist with DAO's combat style. We just didn't go with DAO's combat style.

My concern wouldn't exist without MP. In fact, it wouldn't exist right now with MP if Bioware released a single PC UI combat video. It is the lack of information about KBM controls that is the source of my concern.

DA2 isn't a good example because we saw PC gameplay very early on that showed quite conclusively it retained the same gameplay as DAO.

We haven't seen any PC gameplay. We haven't seen the PC UI. We've seen console action gameplay, and now we've been told there was an aim from the start to achieve synergy between MP and SP in terms of gameplay and that MP can be a valuable ground to test ideas and enemies for SP.

And now your most recent comment (that the gameplay is not like DAO) suggests that perhaps radical changes were made to the PC UI.

[Steelcan]

Yeah, good old Bethesda, they'd never take the Elder Scrolls and run to massively multiplayer...wait. :-P

Wasn't Bethesda who did that

[CronoDragoon]

Sorry, Crono. I'm not helping you discourage the discussion.

I mostly want him to see the countless ME3 reviews in that thread where people said "10/10 besides the ending" which pretty much invalidates any attempt to blame ME3's reception on multiplayer.