2661 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

My concern wouldn't exist without MP. In fact, it wouldn't exist right now with MP if Bioware released a single PC UI combat video. It is the lack of information about KBM controls that is the source of my concern.

DA2 isn't a good example because we saw PC gameplay very early on that showed quite conclusively it retained the same gameplay as DAO.

We haven't seen any PC gameplay. We haven't seen the PC UI. We've seen console action gameplay, and now we've been told there was an aim from the start to achieve synergy between MP and SP in terms of gameplay and that MP can be a valuable ground to test ideas and enemies for SP.

And now your most recent comment (that the gameplay is not like DAO) suggests that perhaps radical changes were made to the PC UI.

I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat and suggest BioWare might not be allowed to promote anything but Xbox controls, as it seems EA and MS are being buddy buddy about this game.

Not that this does anything to assuade your fears, but I think it's more credible than suggesting the PC UI is still being worked on or is unfinished (that's a pretty important thing to be left unfinished) and that this is the reason why they aren't showing it.

[In Exile]

But as you already pointed out, they were moving away from purely isometric strategy before any multiplayer existed, in part because of the fact that this isn't a PC exclusive game the way Origins originally was. If the criticism is that DA2 at high difficulties required some real time movement as well as tactical positioning/round by round micromanagement, and you worry that DAI moves even further away from it, then you should already have picked up that DAI wasn't ever going to swing back towards that isometric ideal of turn by turn nightmare mode. The fact that warriors have fast roll/dodges, that the Dragons hit vast ares of the battle field with real-time swooping fire-runs- We already knew BOTH those things, and neither is geared toward turn by turn at nightmare difficulty.

That doesn't change that in DA2 on PC, I found that pause and play helped a lot with setting things up and getting out of combat with minimal damage to the party, and since that will be even more important in DAI with the limited healing resources especially at higher difficulty. I see this not as Nightmare turning into DMC or XCOM, but ultimately requiring both good timing, and good planning, and I look forward to that challenge.

You missed the point completely. DA2 was an SP only game. It addressed a very simple issue on consoles: the DAO gameplay was atrocious and there needed to be a chance made to make the game fun for a controller. Just like how KoTOR was very different from BG2.

Adding MP adds *more* pressure for action solo combat. Just look at the changes made on console alone: removing the radial menu entirely.

As for DA2, my complaint related to the way that boss battles were not properly optimised for KBM. I did not think that the UI was at all different from DAO and spent hours on the old forum arguing that the UI is the same.

[Stayler]

Again, this isn't the place. I'm more than happy to point you to the ME3 fan review thread, where you can learn what fans thought about the game.

This has to do with the conversation i'm giving examples. I don't see you talking to the people that are mentioning Skyrim and Bethesda.

[Elhanan]

My only real need for pausing in DAO is when I want to give simultaneous orders to a variety of players.  If I am only controlling one character (which is often as I let tactics handle most stuff) I don't need to pause the game that often.

Thing is, my RL reflexes are far, far less capable than that of most gamers, let alone my PC's. Personally, my need to look at maps for tactical positions, Spell and Talent lists, and other game minutia craves the use of Pause features.

While SWTOR also does not have Pause, it became less of a tactical battlefield and more of a Simon UI quick-bar mini-game. And NWN1 m/p is reliant on auto-fire features as a way to substitute for a lack of reactions.

Add in a disability to an extant lack of skills, and m/p is mostly overlooked as a feature, as I do not wish to burden any team with one that will always be the weakest link. Pause and Tactical rotation may help even things up a lot.

[In Exile]

I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat and suggest BioWare might not be allowed to promote anything but Xbox controls, as it seems EA and MS are being buddy buddy about this game.

Not that this does anything to assuade your fears, but I think it's more credible than suggesting the PC UI is still being worked on or is unfinished (that's a pretty important thing to be left unfinished) and that this is the reason why they aren't showing it.

I'm not worried. Don't get me wrong. If DAI does not have proper PC controls I will simply play it for the story on normal or easy and have a lot of fun with it. My point is simply that acting as if MP and SP have no overlap is absurd, as is acting like the concern sorrounding MP is purely based on dislike of MP rather than the impact it can have on SP.

[Zu Long]

Wasn't Bethesda who did that

 

Bethesda licensed it out to ZeniMax. They are still getting the profits, and last I checked, it's listed on their website.

 

bethsoft.com/en-us/games/the_elder_scrolls_online

[SofaJockey]

After the weekend (Pax) we should have some real feedback from Joe/Jane gamers who can give their views

on what it is actually like.

[hoorayforicecream]

Bethesda licensed it out to ZeniMax. They are still getting the profits, and last I checked, it's listed on their website.

 

bethsoft.com/en-us/games/the_elder_scrolls_online

 

It's a little more confusing and convoluted than that. Zenimax Media owns Bethesda Softworks. TESO was actually developed by Zenimax Online, which is a different studio owned by Zenimax Media. So Zenimax Media owns the rights to the Elder Scrolls IP, and handed it to Zenimax Online in order to create the MMOG.

[Maria Caliban]

But you realize the Catch-22 here for BioWare, correct? If they market MP early, then it will be spun negatively that MP is going to be just as/more important than SP. If they announce it late, they get accused of some bizarre sort of bait-and-switch (which it isn't).

*thinks MP should be 'just as important' as SP*

[Chron0id]

*thinks MP should be 'just as important' as SP*

Well, I have some bad news for you.  It won't be the case with this game.  The term "tacked-on" doesn't even begin to describe this situation.  And even if it wasn't tacked-on, that would be a HUGE problem in and of itself.

[DadeLeviathan]

Well, I have some bad news for you.  It won't be the case with this game.  The term "tacked-on" doesn't even begin to describe this situation.

 

How did you get an advanced copy of the game?

[Zu Long]

You missed the point completely. DA2 was an SP only game. It addressed a very simple issue on consoles: the DAO gameplay was atrocious and there needed to be a chance made to make the game fun for a controller. Just like how KoTOR was very different from BG2.

Adding MP adds *more* pressure for action solo combat. Just look at the changes made on console alone: removing the radial menu entirely.

As for DA2, my complaint related to the way that boss battles were not properly optimised for KBM. I did not think that the UI was at all different from DAO and spent hours on the old forum arguing that the UI is the same.

 

I guess I did miss your point. I saw a shift in tone in DA2 away from isometric combat that the developers never stated they were going to undo in DAI, and that the move sets we've already seen already suggested were going to continue. I agree that I'd like to see the KBM UI, though unlike you I haven't immediately concluded that not seeing it means it will be gimped somehow. The disappearance of radial menus from the controller doesn't mean much to me as I confess I never played on anything but a keyboard.

 

I just feel like wanting to see PC UI (which is a valid request, even though I think you're leaping to conclusions about what its lack of inclusion thus far portends) doesn't really have anything to do with Multiplayer and its effect on the game. You might make a different topic requesting the devs release a trailer. I'll just point out that it's not like the fact that multiplayer wasn't mentioned up till now doesn't mean they weren't working on it. The same holds true for KBM controls.

[cjones91]

*thinks MP should be 'just as important' as SP*

That's the bext solution in my opinion.

[Ghostjs]

I would pay a stupid amount of extra if I could co-op through FONV.  Absurd amounts!  My friend and I would probably not play another game....

 

That sounds fun on paper but when I actually think about it, it doesn't sound like something I would like. Games with a heavy story focus seem to lose things with co-op. I play SWTOR, and am constantly having to quiet my friends before we talk to a quest giver so that I can actually hear them. It's a minor thing but when I have to stop everything and say, "Hey guys we are about to talk to someone, lets kill it for a minute." it kind of ruins the flow. Also, games with ambient dialogue that you cannot perdict, makes it so that I would constantly worry that I missed something. But everything in between that is really fun.

 

My only real need for pausing in DAO is when I want to give simultaneous orders to a variety of players.  If I am only controlling one character (which is often as I let tactics handle most stuff) I don't need to pause the game that often.

 

Me and you play that game really differently. I pause all the time, even though I only tend to handle my character. I tend to only give orders to companions when they are not following the tactics I set or I need to change something on the fly ( like emergency health potions or moving Fenris out of the demons AOE, that crazy elf just never learns). Even though I basically only control my character I pause all the time. It lets me look around and see what is happening in all the action ( elemental mage is insanely fun, but it sometimes gets hard to see with all the explosions. ). Pausing lets me answer questions, like why did that character suddenly get so low on health...oh that guy managed to sneak in and get a good hit on them. 

 

I'm still excited about the game and only have a few things on my checklist to ether quiet or validate some fears. Such as: Keyboard and mouse UI,  Seeing more hands on footage ( which I should have plenty of after the gameplay demo videos come from PAX ) , etc.

[Zu Long]

It's a little more confusing and convoluted than that. Zenimax Media owns Bethesda Softworks. TESO was actually developed by Zenimax Online, which is a different studio owned by Zenimax Media. So Zenimax Media owns the rights to the Elder Scrolls IP, and handed it to Zenimax Online in order to create the MMOG.

 

All I'm saying is they're still listed in the credits on the game as a publisher and anytime press releases get made, it's through Bethesda. Saying they had nothing to do with it is pretty off base.

[DisturbedJim83]

DA2. No multiplayer. Yet the SP was a huge letdown. 

 

This stuff happens with games that... *gasp* have no MP! So why is it that the MP is always to blame?

Depends how "hardcore DAO" you are aside from the "1 Dungeon" and some story elements that could have been done better I actually liked DA2's story + campaign as a whole it made a refreshing change from what was then the tired overused trope of " be the one person who can save the universe from itself....again........but I digress.

 

 

There are a whole number of issues that have led to my current perception and concern about the inclusion of MP I'll try and list a few:

 

1)Mass Effect 3, Similar concerns were raised when ME3's MP was both speculated and announced Bioware gave "assurances" that are almost word for word identical to the "assurances" we are getting now about MP not affecting SP,we all know that prior to the EC fix that those assurances were clearly "worthless"

 

2) As it turns out some of the ME3 MP team are working on DAI's MP which given that the EC fix was only done begrudgingly because of all the bad press Bioware was getting about that among many of the other complaints about the "3 color endings" which is concerning enough,even more concerning is that so far Alan is the only person from Bioware who has honestly said that it was a "mistake" to have SP content no matter how minor requiring MP participation to access.

 

3)Just as the Meridith boss battle in DA2 was tacked on "because more boss fights is awesome"( I still remember the "hit the A button and something Awesome happens") This MP appears to be tacked on "because playing with friends is Awesome!" its as if there was no thought put into beyond " how can we get micro transactions in I know lets do a horde/arena mode who cares if it makes no sense the pro MP peeps will be so pleased we can nickel&dime them with skin/weapon/armor packs all day long" heck it even comes with the industry standard "You don't to buy our Platinum(trademark)currency because you can earn all items in game so its not evil micro transactions honest!" cover.

 

Point 3 is my major concern the whole premise of the franchise had been radically altered for what appears to be nothing more then a "because we can #GiveusallUrDolla" If they are going to make such a radical change at least do it for something more then just "Because Money init "

[Chron0id]

How did you get an advanced copy of the game?

The writings on the wall man.  You just got to read it.  EA has said in the past they have yet to greenlight a game without an online component.  That, and there's no way this MP could be anything but tacked on.  A supposedly 200 hour campaign and you think the multiplayer WASN'T crow bar'd in to appease the mountain dew guzzlers?  It's a mathematical certainty. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Thing is, my RL reflexes are far, far less capable than that of most gamers, let alone my PC's. Personally, my need to look at maps for tactical positions, Spell and Talent lists, and other game minutia craves the use of Pause features.

 

Then maybe multiplayer (at least in something like a tanking role) won't be for you?

 

The single player game still has pause.  From a gameplay mechanics point of view, does this really change how combat plays?  Like, do you think that DAI's MP could be done with DA2's control scheme?

[Zu Long]

The writings on the wall man.  You just got to read it.  EA has said in the past they have yet to greenlight a game without an online component.  That, and there's no way this MP could be anything but tacked on.  A supposedly 200 hour campaign and you think the multiplayer WASN'T crow bar'd in to appease the mountain dew guzzlers?  It's a mathematical certainty. 

 

If it matches ME3 multiplayer in terms of popularity, then I guess it was worth it. Let the MD guzzlers have their fun, I got 200 hours of exploration and story to play with.

[DadeLeviathan]

It's a mathematical certainty. 

 

I don't that means what you think that means.

[Allan Schumacher]

That sounds fun on paper but when I actually think about it, it doesn't sound like something I would like. Games with a heavy story focus seem to lose things with co-op. I play SWTOR, and am constantly having to quiet my friends before we talk to a quest giver so that I can actually hear them. It's a minor thing but when I have to stop everything and say, "Hey guys we are about to talk to someone, lets kill it for a minute." it kind of ruins the flow. Also, games with ambient dialogue that you cannot perdict, makes it so that I would constantly worry that I missed something. But everything in between that is really fun.

 

I played through the entirety of SWTOR co-op though, so it wasn't really an issue (we didn't use VOIP though).  So I think it might just depend on the who you're playing with?

 

It's a case of different people having different tolerances for different things.  But you're right in that we wouldn't necessarily be making a game specifically for me and my group of friends.  As such, maybe co-op MP in a FO game isn't in the cards.

[nrcrane]

The writings on the wall man.  You just got to read it.  EA has said in the past they have yet to greenlight a game without an online component.  That, and there's no way this MP could be anything but tacked on.  A supposedly 200 hour campaign and you think the multiplayer WASN'T crow bar'd in to appease the mountain dew guzzlers?  It's a mathematical certainty. 

But from what I've read they've been working on this MP for 2 years now. Can't remember who said it but was mentioned several times in this thread already. So how can something that has been worked on for 2 years just be "tacked on"?......Sounds like a pretty sturdy tac. Your math is flimsy.

[Chron0id]

I drink tea and I'm certainly not a "Mountain Dew" guzzler. Sigh, you are so rude.

Hey, I love Mountain Dew myself.   DO THE DEW

[Chron0id]

But from what I've read they've been working on this MP for 2 years now. Can't remember who said it but was mentioned several times in this thread already. So how can something that has been worked on for 2 years just be "tacked on"?......Sounds like a pretty sturdy tac. Your math is flimsy.

All that means is they've put up a ridiculous amount of tacs on the wall.