1391 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

still he was tired, no srly he for 10 years deal with so many troubles what would broke many people...expecially then many die and enemies near you

 

Can we just agree that Orsino was a scrub? 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Asdrubael Vect:  Precisely why blood magic is for the weak. 

Mages who cannot do... do blood magic.

 

It worked for Jowan... it worked for Orsino.

[dragonflight288]

@dragonflight288:  I would actually teach mages how to manipulate the Fade to create weapons - and whatever else - to combat demons.  Not keep it some arcane secret.  Another stupid thing that boggles the mind. 

 

The weaponry Valor has isn't "magic" - it's "Fade thought" - in fact, Asunder gave me the distinct impression that "magic" in the Fade isn't magic... it's "the belief you're doing magic". 

 

So no, mages can be taught to fight demons without being taught how to bully mundanes.

 

But that would require studying spirits, and direct manipulation of the Fade. 

 

And their weapons that they summoned wouldn't exactly be corporal enough to hold in the real world. 

 

The very thing that templars are absolutely afraid of mages doing. The school of spirit codex specifically has mages study this, but the codex says it's all too often mistaken for blood magic because it involves summoning spririts (Animate Dead). 

 

And I never said they had to learn how to fight by bullying mundanes, I was commenting on if someone wishes only the loyalists to learn battlemagic, you would have a very, very hard time enforcing such a rule.

 

Especially when an untrained child, when getting upset can set the head of another child on fire as Wynne did. 

[KainD]

Precisely why blood magic is for the weak. 

 

You realize that it makes powerful even MORE powerful right? 

[dragonflight288]

@Asdrubael Vect:  Precisely why blood magic is for the weak. 

Mages who cannot do... do blood magic.

 

It worked for Jowan... it worked for Orsino.

 

Or for Grey Wardens, or templars using Phylacteries. Or to make up for the lack of lyrium as Merrill had. 

 

Or for the absolute buzzards. 

[X Equestris]

Especially Nevarra, yeah   
 
you do not understand that faith in Maker and many kingdoms was before Orlais Chanty and Templars...Chantry in Nevarra, Tevinter, Anderfels is different and do not connected with Orlais and their Divine
 
concept of Divine was Orlais Chantry idea, Teviners have their own because of sh*t what Orlais do and they make there own to make their Chantry stronger

You are the one misunderstanding. The Anderfels and Nevarra follow the White Divine. Yes, cults of the Maker existed before Drakon founded the Chantry. However, do you see any of those holding considerable power now?

[Darkly Tranquil]

Well, a Harvester is a spirit possessing many corpses used to try and make a golem. It's possible he was actually trying to use their blood to power a spell, and ended up possessed in the attempt. 
 
I don't think that sounds very credible though, especially since I only just thought of it off the top of my head like two seconds ago.

And here I thought all along he was just being considerate in providing us with a climactic boss battle.

[dragonflight288]

You are the one misunderstanding. The Anderfels and Nevarra follow the White Divine. Yes, cults of the Maker existed before Drakon founded the Chantry. However, do you see any of those holding considerable power now?

 

The Andrastian Cult of Haven?

[Medhia_Nox]

@dragonflight288:  If they were taught how to fight demons in the Fade - we'd have to worry far less about fighting demons in the corporeal world.  Any of Valor's weapons would have killed the Rage demon in the Mage Origin - mages just don't believe they know how to use them (which is essential for their use in the Fade).  

 

As for Loyalists - you can mage mages loyal.  The Chantry should have developed a special Corps. for mages who know combat magic.  These mages should have been given special rights and dispensations to keep their loyality (and it would have worked - like it does in nearly any situation in the real world).  These mages would have had loyalty to their group alone - and losing their rights would have been more important to them than breaking free from the Chantry. 

 

But combat magic for anyone who wants to... should have always been prohibited by the Chantry.

[Asdrubael Vect]

@Asdrubael Vect:  Precisely why blood magic is for the weak. 

Mages who cannot do... do blood magic.

 

It worked for Jowan... it worked for Orsino.

blood magic is for smart people who can understand that wood stick will not work against fire deamon

 

the problem that some untrained people try to use more than they can and then they are scaried...

 

moslty they use it then they have only 2 choices

 

die or give body to deamon who have high chances to kill your enemies and you will have some slight chance to get your body back

[dragonflight288]

And here I thought all along he was just being considerate in providing us with a climactic boss battle.

 

lol, yeah. Nothing liked force boss battles that make no sense if you, up that point, supported him. 

[X Equestris]

The Andrastian Cult of Haven?

And it is influential how?

[Mistic]

No, it was signed as a compromise. The mages were allowed to separate themselves from society, to form their own society within Circles, where they could freely study magic as they chose, watched over by the templars and a council of their own elder magi. 

 

The History of the Circle Codex says this. It also says that the Circle's are supposed to be separate from the Chantry. 

 

The Nevarran Accord was laid down so the mages would not be killed by the Divine because the were peacefully protesting. They were to be watched, but they were to be free to study magic and live as they chose within the confines of the Circle according to the History of the Circle Codex, and mundanes would be kept safe from the mages who went bad, and the mages would be kept safe from an overzealous populace. 

 

The spirit of the Nevarran Accord was gone long before it was dissolved though. 

 

Well, truth be told, I always suspected the codex History of the Circle. It looked more like a legend and Petrine is a very pro-Chantry source, more than Genitivi. For that to have happened, in 19 years from 1:1 to 1:20 there should have been at least three Divines (Justinia I, some Ambrosia I and then Ambrosia II). Also, given that at that time Drakon was busy using mages in the Second Blight, I don't think they had time to be bored by only being used "to kindle the eternal flame". Not to tell about mentioning Templars, who by that time didn't exist yet.

 

All in all, given Occam's razor, I think History of the Circle doesn't really explain how the Circles were born. It's either a pro-Chantry fairy-tale created to put them in a good light (and avoid mentioning the Inquisition), or the events it describes happened later and tell of the seclusion of the mages in remote areas, not the birth of the Circle system itself.

[Tevinter Rose]

Can we just agree that Orsino was a scrub? 

 

rofl

Spoiler

[Medhia_Nox]

@KainD:  And only the weak need to be "more powerful".

 

@Asrubael:  You know blood magic makes demons laugh right?  Just ask Avernus.

[Asdrubael Vect]

You are the one misunderstanding. The Anderfels and Nevarra follow the White Divine. Yes, cults of the Maker existed before Drakon founded the Chantry. However, do you see any of those holding considerable power now?

say this for mortalitasi who was founded by Tevinter magister

 

and Anderfels-Grey Wardens does not care about Orlais and their Divine since Dracon die.

[KainD]

rofl

Spoiler

 

Lel.

 

Nope, I don't want no scrub, a scrub is a mage that won't get no love from me,

Hanging on the passenger's side of a revolution ride, trying to survive but won't..  

[dragonflight288]

And it is influential how?

 

It was influential enough to assassinate a renowned chantry scholar's assistant and place a sleeper agent, hide assassins outside the inn at Lake Calenhad, and such. They didn't have the influence that the Chantry has, but they had enough power to get things done. 

 

Not the best example, but they did have some influence in the world. 

[KainD]

@KainD:  And only the weak need to be "more powerful".

 

You can never be powerful enough. 

[X Equestris]

say this for mortalitasyi who was founded by Tevinter magister
 
and Anderfels-Grey Wardens does not care about Orlais and their Divine since Dracon die.

So? The Chantry allows them to exist. And Anders folk are mentioned as some of the most fervent followers of the Chantry in Thedas. The use of "the Chantry" implies the Orlesian one.

[dragonflight288]

Well, truth be told, I always suspected the codex History of the Circle. It looked more like a legend and Petrine is a very pro-Chantry source, more than Genitivi. For that to have happened, in 19 years from 1:1 to 1:20 there should have been at least three Divines (Justinia I, some Ambrosia I and then Ambrosia II). Also, given that at that time Drakon was busy using mages in the Second Blight, I don't think they had time to be bored by only being used "to kindle the eternal flame". Not to tell about mentioning Templars, who by that time didn't exist yet.

 

All in all, given Occam's razor, I think History of the Circle doesn't really explain how the Circles were born. It's either a pro-Chantry fairy-tale created to put them in a good light (and avoid mentioning the Inquisition), or the events it describes happened later and tell of the seclusion of the mages in remote areas, not the birth of the Circle system itself.

 

Or Bioware not fully aware of its lore, the left hand writing something the right hand doesn't know about.

 

Still, it is the birth of the Circle System, but not the birth of mages utilization by the Chantry. 

[Darkly Tranquil]

lol, yeah. Nothing liked force boss battles that make no sense if you, up that point, supported him.

"I'm becoming a hideous corpse-monster because reasons! RAWR!"

[X Equestris]

It was influential enough to assassinate a renowned chantry scholar's assistant and place a sleeper agent, hide assassins outside the inn at Lake Calenhad, and such. They didn't have the influence that the Chantry has, but they had enough power to get things done. 
 
Not the best example, but they did have some influence in the world.

It is not political influence. No nations follow their version of Andrastianism. Just an isolated community in the mountains.

[Asdrubael Vect]

@KainD:  And only the weak need to be "more powerful".

 

@Asrubael:  You know blood magic makes demons laugh right?  Just ask Avernus.

when you fight agains guy who have armor you need a better  weapon.

 

you talk about grey warden who lived for more than 200 years and who quickly summon a army of deamons when he need more time but Janeca did not listen him and his comrades dies...and he was not a professional blood mage when he summon that army

[dragonflight288]

It is not political influence. No nations follow their version of Andrastianism. Just an isolated community in the mountains.

 

*shrug*

 

Influence comes in many forms. Yes, they had no direct political influence on anyone other than themselves, but enough influence to have agents in Ferelden...and possibly Orlais since the Frostback Mountains is right between both.