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[Master Warder Z_]

@Asrubael:  You know blood magic makes demons laugh right?  Just ask Avernus.

 

They invented it, so obviously.

[mikeymoonshine]

 

 

he chantry gets a lot of flack from people, often seeming because they have an in real life beef with christianity or religion in general. However, I feel in doing so they ignore the legitimately good work they provide to the people.

 

I have seen this point made allot in discussions about the Chantry but I don't really understand why you guys think it has any relevancy or worth. 

 

For one thing it's obviously not true, there are people who oppose the Chantry for many reasons and the very fact that they bring these reasons up should make that obvious.

 

Even if it was true it still isn't a very good point.  It makes sense for someone who opposes real religion to also oppose a fictional religion, especially if that religion is heavily based on a real religion that they oppose. That doesn't mean they don't have reasons for opposing it though, those reasons just happen to be the same as the reasons for why the oppose real life religions. 

 

So it's pretty much a completely irrelevant point.

[KainD]

They invented it, so obviously.

 

How they did it, boggles my mind. Blood is physical, they reside in the fade. It seems more likely to me that at some point ancient magisters or elves taught the demons blood magic and they've held the knowledge. 

[Asdrubael Vect]

They invented it, so obviously.

deamons does not invent anything, all what they know is a knoledges what someone in Thedas was know before this bunches of energy and information was formed

 

demons steal all from Thedas peoples/creatures who is connected with fade

[KainD]

deamons does not invent anything, all what they know is a knoledges what someone in Thedas was know before this bunches of energy and information was formed

 

This. 

[dragonflight288]

How they did it, boggles my mind. Blood is physical, they reside in the fade. It seems more likely to me that at some point ancient magisters or elves taught the demons blood magic and they've held the knowledge. 

 

The Arcane is eternal in the Fade. Most likely, they saw the elves of Arlathan, or the Tevinter Imperium do it, learned how to do it while possessing one, or from their dreams or by observing them while in the Fade. And with the destruction of most sources of learning it, demons have become the easiest way to learn it. 

[Master Warder Z_]

deamons does not invent anything

 

Not Demons, Not any random ramble of rage, pride or desire.

 

The Original Four Demons, the forgotten ones gave the secrets of blood magic to mankind.

 

Also the WH spelling is incorrect here.

[Daerog]

How they did it, boggles my mind. Blood is physical, they reside in the fade. It seems more likely to me that at some point ancient magisters or elves taught the demons blood magic and they've held the knowledge. 

 

As demons were spirits that were interested in humans/elves/whoever, and became demons due to their obsession with the physical world and the traits of dreamers, it is more likely that they understood the connection more readily with their familiarity of the Fade and its connection to Thedas, and so taught it to that one Archon guy and others. So, as mages use blood magic, they are more susceptible to possession because demons are closely tied with its creation... if "creation" is the right word... maybe copyright or IP would be more appropriate?

 

If it was just that Archon guy who started doing it, one would think he would just credit himself, not some other being.

 

Hmm... unless it was taught by the elves...

 

Edit: Specifically, it is believed to have started by the Forbidden Ones.

[Master Warder Z_]

Blood is physical, they reside in the fade.

 

You do realize everything is made physical by intent, desire in the fade?

 

Who is to say you cannot simply conjure blood out of thin air there.

[KainD]

The Original Four Demons, the forgotten ones gave the secrets of blood magic to mankind.

 

How do we know this?

[Master Warder Z_]

How do we know this?

 

Its speculated by several sources across two games?

[dragonflight288]

It's also speculated that the elves originally taught Tevinter. Or that the Old Gods taught them. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

World of Thedas says of the Anderfels "the Chantry maintains a heavy popular presence. Dedicated worship of the Maker is all but expected among Anders."

 

There are multiple theories of the origin of blood magic, but the Old Gods seems to be the most commonly accepted one. It's the only one in WoT.

[Daerog]

How do we know this?

 

Well, they still interact with the world and people. There are ancient, secret writings that credit the Forbidden Ones with hidden knowledge, and greater knowledge about blood magic.

 

Although, one could say they only know this because of how old they are.

 

However, why would an Archon credit an other being (Dumat) with teaching blood magic if he was the one that started it or some other human?

 

It's either the ancient elves or the Forbidden Ones that started blood magic, that's my guess.

[Master Warder Z_]

It's also speculated that the elves originally taught Tevinter. Or that the Old Gods taught them. 

 

Elves don't teach!

[Asdrubael Vect]

Not Demons, Not any random ramble of rage, pride or desire.
 
The Original Four Demons, the forgotten ones gave the secrets of blood magic to mankind.
 
 

The first of the magus cast themselves deep in the Fade in search of answers and power, always power. They found the forbidden ones – Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and The Formless One. Many conversations were had and much of the fabric of the world revealed. And thus the magic of blood was born.” ―Unknown mage

 

 

1)noone said that they were the first

 

2)they are not "forgotten ones" who is old gods-arhdemons

[Kieran G.]

The notion that mages are cursed is entirely based on Chantry doctrine. Neither the Tevinters, the Rivaini, the Chasind, or the Dalish regard magic as a curse. They see it as a gift or talent like any other form of ability. Magic is only viewed as a curse because Chantry deems it so.

Context.

So it's a blessing that demons can take control of their body, and there might be nothing they can do to stop that. magic is totally a gift for a village when a mage turns into an abomination and slaughters everyone.

 

People see magic in a bad way because that's what it is most of the time, a sword can only kill one person at a time, but a mage can use a spell that can kill 20 in an instant. both can cause harm, just one is much more devastating.

[KainD]

So it's a blessing that demons can take control of their body, and there might be nothing they can do to stop that. 

 

There is always something a mage can do, they have the steering wheel, unless they give it to the demon and move to the passenger seat. 

[Asdrubael Vect]

So it's a blessing that demons can take control of their body, and there might be nothing they can do to stop that. magic is totally a gift for a village when a mage turns into an abomination and slaughters everyone.

 

People see magic in a bad way because that's what it is most of the time, a sword can only kill one person at a time, but a mage can use a spell that can kill 20 in an instant. both can cause harm, just one is much more devastating.

you forget that nonmage cant resist to deamon like a tree or animal and mage is the only one who can and who can control them

 

no kid will become abomination if some Orlais peasant will not start witch burning and Templars will not try to hunt them

 

a poison and desease and torch can kill thousands, and arrow can kill dosens of people if you shoot the right spot

 

mage can heal and regenerate lost limbs and many things what is considerate like a miracle by nonmages..and even Orlais Chantry understand that they are to valuable to just kill them because they give them to much money and yeah protection against demons

[Daerog]

you forget that nonmage cant resist to deamon like a tree or animal and mage is the only one who can and who can control them

 

Non-mages can resist demons. Not every Hero of Fereldan was a mage, Duncan resisted a demon with the help of Marric, that one templar recruit was able to resist for a while when Hawke rescues him, and those are just the ones that we directly know about from gameplay or novels, not some obscure codex entries.

 

A demon can be controlled like a slave can be controlled. It isn't being mind controlled, the mage controller is just directing the demon, but a mage's will can dominate a lesser demon's. Edit: While it is true that only mages seem to have this potential (dwarves probably can with more research into lyrium), I wouldn't consider it a great boon, as it still puts everyone, including the mage, in grave danger.

 

Edit2: Also, Templars can protect people from demons, a mage was not necessary for the exorcism of the orphanage in the alienage.

 

Edit3: I agree that mages are great, not trying to put them down necessarily, but I would say that Thedas would be safer without them.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Non-mages can resist demons. Not every Hero of Fereldan was a mage, Duncan resisted a demon with the help of Marric, that one templar recruit was able to resist for a while when Hawke rescues him, and those are just the ones that we directly know about from gameplay or novels, not some obscure codex entries.

 

A demon can be controlled like a slave can be controlled. It isn't being mind controlled, the mage controller is just directing the demon, but a mage's will can dominate a lesser demon's. Edit: While it is true that only mages seem to have this potential (dwarves probably can with more research into lyrium), I wouldn't consider it a great boon, as it still puts everyone, including the mage, in grave danger.

hero of ferelden is a main hero who would never have a gender race and others but he/she is always a warden with a taint in blood who is connected to powerfull somniary dragon-archdeamon...they as Maric-reaver with a blood of another ancient dragon are not a common non-mages

 

they have a much magic powers in their blood, even if they cant shoot fire they still magic creatures

[Medhia_Nox]

@KainD:  That's not true and has been confirmed by devs.  Not going to go search - so disbelieve my statement if you want.

 

Demons can trick a mage into giving up their "seat" or force a mage (as we see in the Broken Circle).  Mr. Weekes confirmed that Lambert was very much correct about Cole - and Rhys was totally played by a demon.  Though, of course, Cole is now subject to change (as are all spirits/demons).  Though I would prefer it to be a total lie to try to trick the Inquisitor.

 

And the people who think they can control demons - are exactly the people who wouldn't be able to.

[Daerog]

hero of ferelden is a main hero who would never have a gender race and others but he/she is always a warden with a taint in blood who is connected to powerfull somniary dragon-archdeamon...they as Maric-reaver with a blood of another ancient dragon are not a common non-mages

 

they have a much magic powers in their blood, even if they cant shoot fire they still magic creatures

 

Well, geez, if we are going down that line of thinking, then everyone who has blood and/or dreams is a magical creature as everyone has some connection to magic.

 

I guess I didn't read what you wrote carefully.

 

Yes, I can see that argument, but I think it is about willpower more than special magic properties of the person, although having magic affinities will draw more demons to test you.

 

However, all the "non-mages" we've directly seen resist demons either have special blood or are templars, you are right.

[dragonflight288]

Well, geez, if we are going down that line of thinking, then everyone who has blood and/or dreams is a magical creature as everyone has some connection to magic.

 

Technically, everyone besides dwarves do. 

 

The codex on mana and its uses make it clear that all have a connection to the Fade, but those born with the potential to use that connection are the mages, and their mana is their ability to tap into the Fade and use its power. 

 

Just read it this morning. I'm trying to replay DAO, but I'm taking the time, for the very first time, to try and read every single codex entry. 

[Asdrubael Vect]

 Also, Templars can protect people from demons, a mage was not necessary for the exorcism of the orphanage in the alienage.

 

Edit3: I agree that mages are great, not trying to put them down necessarily, but I would say that Thedas would be safer without them.

1)old Templar try to investigate some problem and was easily killed by deamon and most of the work do our warden

 

2)history learns us that Thedas was safe without humans who invade and start to do sh*t, and mages would always be in Thedas this in elven and later with crossbreading became with human and now have some in kossith blood...they always would have mages and templars kids would be mages because of lyrium

 

this is a war against nature, mages would win no matter what some would want...and if someone would try to kill mages they would get more and more mages born and deamons who will appear because veil was torn, this is pointless war