1391 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravensword]

...We all have our ways.
 
And i am God after all...

Of course. It all makes perfect.

blonde brat

Beware of blondes.

[Hellion Rex]

...

 

O.O

 

How do you know what i look like?!

 

That meanie justinia spreading my image around the internet again!

 

*Coughs*

 

I mean i have no idea what you are talking about...

You make this far too easy, dear.

[TheSeekerofLulz]

No, it's not. Here is your first post on the matter. 

 

 

Nowhere in there is the term outspoken. You just said the ones who don't agree. Merrill doesn't agree, yet they don't kill her. Your statement has been proven inaccurate. 

Voices. Voices. Is it really that hard for you to find an example of the Chantry actually allowing disagreeing views from the elves. You splitting hairs really isn't helping your point in the slightest. It's really not that big a deal that you can't find something that doesn't exist. 

[Master Warder Z_]

You make this far too easy, dear.

 

*Steeples hands together ominously*

 

But that is it self a part of the game.

 

If i do not react, how can i pull the prey into the trap?

 

My reaction is the snare dear.

[Hellion Rex]

*Steeples hands together ominously*

 

But that is it self a part of the game.

 

If i do not react, how can i pull the prey into the trap?

 

My reaction is the snare dear.

Mhmmm, remind me how that's working for you?

 

Spoiler

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Voices. Voices. Is it really that hard for you to find an example of the Chantry actually allowing disagreeing views from the elves. You splitting hairs really isn't helping your point in the slightest. It's really not that big a deal that you can't find something that doesn't exist. 

You want an irrefutable example: A Pro-Dalish Dalish Warden. They can call the Chantry out several times yet nothing happens.

There is also the fact that the Templars don't execute the Sabrae clan outside of Kirkwall despite them being neighbors for 6 years. 

 

So I have plenty of evidence for my side. Now you show me evidence of them killing any Dalish that voices there opinion. And Codex entries don't count since they are purposefully written to be biased. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Mhmmm, remind me how that's working for you?

 

Spoiler

 

 

That fight was rigged!

 

I will almighty push anyone who disagrees with me!

 

Also! I had all but won that fight when Kishimoto cheated!

 

Spoiler

[LobselVith8]

Voices. Voices. Is it really that hard for you to find an example of the Chantry actually allowing disagreeing views from the elves. You splitting hairs really isn't helping your point in the slightest. It's really not that big a deal that you can't find something that doesn't exist. 

 

The faith of the Creators wouldn't openly be permitted (which seems similar to Anders' voicing how a Tevinter amulet would get him killed if any official saw it), as conversion was one of the mandates for elves who lived under human rule, and the elven religion is outlawed by Chantry law - unlike the elves who became the ancestors of modern city elves after the defeat of the Dales, the Dalish seemed to escape into the neighboring warring teyrnirs that would become Ferelden in order to maintain their culture and religious beliefs.

[TheSeekerofLulz]

You want an irrefutable example: A Pro-Dalish Dalish Warden. They can call the Chantry out several times yet nothing happens.

There is also the fact that the Templars don't execute the Sabrae clan outside of Kirkwall despite them being neighbors for 6 years. 

 

So I have plenty of evidence for my side. Now you show me evidence of them killing any Dalish that voices there opinion. And Codex entries don't count since they are purposefully written to be biased. 

1. Grey Wardens are untouchable, so that's not evidence.You could help a blood mage escape and "murder" an Arl's son, and get away scot free because you're a Grey Warden.

2. They don't kill the clan because as I said, it's not worth their time to go far off into. The only time they go there is when an escaped mage goes there. Also, I said wouldn't allow elves to stay in the city and be Dalish.  

[Master Warder Z_]

2. They don't kill the clan because as I said, it's not worth their time to go far off into. The only time they go there is when an escaped mage goes there. Also, I said wouldn't allow elves to stay in the city and be Dalish.  

 

Gaspard was pressuring Celene for years to let him take the army and crush the Dalish bandits in Orlais, i suppose for argument's sake we could assume that to be a strictly Orlesian mindset, but i'd doubt it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

1. Grey Wardens are untouchable, so that's not evidence.You could help a blood mage escape and murder an earl's son, and get away scot free because you're a Grey Warden.

2. They don't kill the clan because as I said, it's not worth their time. The only time they go there is when an escaped mage goes there. 

1)For most of the game you are on the Most Wanted List so under Loghain the "You can't be touched" thing doesn't apply. Proof of this is you getting arrested.

2) No, your original argument was they kill those who disagree and that the only reason they spared the Dalish was because they ran away. Yet here we have a clan that will not conform and does not move. That is contradictory to your earlier point. 

 

So all you have is arguments saying how I am wrong yet no evidence that you are right. If you can't provide me evidence of Templars doing what you say they do, then they don't do it. 

[TheSeekerofLulz]

1)For most of the game you are on the Most Wanted List so under Loghain the "You can't be touched" thing doesn't apply. Proof of this is you getting arrested.

2) No, your original argument was they kill those who disagree and that the only reason they spared the Dalish was because they ran away. Yet here we have a clan that will not conform and does not move. That is contradictory to your earlier point. 

 

So all you have is arguments saying how I am wrong yet no evidence that you are right. If you can't provide me evidence of Templars doing what you say they do, then they don't do it. 

1. Ferelden's in a civil war during that time. You only get arrested when you go right to where he is. Not the Chantry. Most of the people don't really agree with Loghain's statements on the whole. 

2. I'm glad you told me that was my argument, since I never claimed as such. From the second response to you I've been saying that the Dalish were forced to leave because of their beliefs, and you tried to give examples of people that said they didn't force them to. When that didn't work you tried to switch it up as if I made a different argument. You're the only one being contradictory. Sundermount is well outside Kirkwall either way. 

 

But if you're just going to go back and forth and change your point everytime you're shown to be incorrect, I'll just ignore you from now on. 

[Master Warder Z_]

So are we all in agreement about the Chantry doing far more good then bad now?

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

1. Ferelden's in a civil war during that time. You only get arrested when you go right to where he is. Not the Chantry. Most of the people don't really agree with Loghain's statements on the whole. 

2. I'm glad you told me that was my argument, since I never claimed as such. From the second response to you I've been saying that the Dalish were forced to leave because of their beliefs, and you tried to give examples of people that said they didn't force them to. When that didn't work you tried to switch it up as if I made a different argument. You're the only one being contradictory. Sundermount is well outside Kirkwall either way. 

 

But if you're just going to go back and forth and change your point everytime you're shown to be incorrect, I'll just ignore you from now on. 

When have I ever changed my point? My point has always been that your statement that the Templars kill anyone, particularly elves, who disagrees with them is false. I have not shifted at all from that point.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So are we all in agreement about the Chantry doing far more good then bad now?

 

I'm in agreement with that.

[Seraphim24]

The Dragon Age chantry is so clean and perfect it's just devoid of character IMO, it's not necessarily a bias against Christianity. They seem to be saying, oh well we built a house and this one person who was sick is safe now. Wow, yeah, I am now stunned with gripping moral confusion. Historically, corruption within the Church was about as common as corruption within business or whevever, and humanitarian causes are just as readily characterized as a form of oppression from a different point of view. None of that kind of underbelly is really present here. Moreover, I think it would be even more interesting to investigate just how "wrong" that kind of pragmatism really is, so what if these humanitarian efforts are to fill the coffers? That might make them more just in some eyes.

 

The Dragon Age incantation of religion seems very dry and almost vaporous in it's assertion of "good," the soldier was hurt, so I bandaged him, the disease was widespread, so we brought aid, it's pretty juvenile in discussion, would be my first point.

 

Secondly, the chantry just seems like a one to one translation with Christianity, which has been extensively explored in piles upon piles of other media ad nauseum. I don't quite understand why Bioware or video gamers or nerds or whoever have spent so much time asserting the need for attention for their unique individual characteristics and how the mainstream doesn't get them, but then given the opportunity to create this bold vision of "progress" (or whatever they have in mind) that no one else understands they settle on something from the 1st century.

 

Of course, that point could be limited if many gamers just all came out at once and said you know what yeah, I am basically a Christian, but then I would say wipe away the veneer of "different' and stop confusing everyone, and people interested in exploring ideas not present in your basic 8 PM TV show can go elsewhere.

[TTTX]

 you are joking right?

 

Templars is nothing and useless against demons and real mages(not some weak, untraied and scaried aprentices who was raised in Chantry Circles and have worst magic education...only Qunari have more bad magic education)

 

they are expensive piece of sh*t who is no more than addicted jailors for scaried kids...they are like Chivaliers who was given holy rights and who pretend to be better then they are and always loose for some peasants.

 

they are no a real and professional warrios

 

they need to use lyrium what makes them weak minded and they cant do anything than block some mana when they near weak and untrained mage...and in fight they can loose all their abilitys in seconds and would need another lyrium dose.

 

Templars is no better than normal soldiers

They are slightly better actually because of their unusually abilities, which gives them an slight edge over mages and demons then the common man or guard have.

[dragonflight288]

So are we all in agreement about the Chantry doing far more good then bad now?

 

 

[Shadow Fox]

I knew it...

[DKJaigen]

They are slightly better actually because of their unusually abilities, which gives them an slight edge over mages and demons then the common man or guard have.

 

A very slight edge that doesnt warrant their lyrium guzzling.

[TTTX]

A very slight edge that doesnt warrant their lyrium guzzling.

Some of the templars chose to do this to keep people safe, others do it in order to support their families and so on.

 

Templars are a necessary evil, it's the commons people answer to fighting mages, demons and the like. 

 

Think of the Templars as special military force that serves a purpose for both protecting and fighting mages.

 

Look at the Grey Wardens as an example they drink Darkspawn blood and the joining as we know joining is highly deadly and if you survive you maximum get 30 years to live as a normal person before you turn into a well just play the DA 2 legacy DLC then you see.

[TheKomandorShepard]

A very slight edge that doesnt warrant their lyrium guzzling.

Well i prefer templars over another blights like incidents caused by power hungry or insane mages and oh boy we have a lot of them as series shows. 

[Ieldra]

So are we all in agreement about the Chantry doing far more good then bad now?
 

[Ieldra]

Dealings with demons are like wishes with Djinns.
 
The only way to win is not to play at all.

Disproven by various Wardens with high Coercion skills in DAO...

[Ieldra]

I haven't found the Qun to be commonly accepted as worse. You see lots of people wishing they could play their Qunari inquisitor as an actual follower of the Qun for example or people praising how cool the Qunari were in DA2 or how they thought the Arishok was awesome and they wished they could have been his ally. I bring up the comparison to the Qun and the caste system because both of those things are much worse and they are bad for the reasons people say they hate the chantry but even more so and yet the chantry is the one commonly being hated on. It's very backwards to me and I can't help but see people as being tainted by their negative real world views on the parallel real world religions of Christianity and Catholicism.

The difference is that nobody expects you to accept the Qun, or the caste system, as good. Meanwhile, the story often appears to take a pro-Chantry stance and suggests that they're the good guys, just as in the real world, it's sort of a default assumption that your culture's dominant religion is something good, and you're looked at askance if you disagree. Disliking the Qun or the caste system is common, and it's supported by the story so there is no problem. The Chantry may be a much lesser evil than either, but the presentation suggests we're supposed to see it as good and I don't. I feel like I'm fighting windmills when I criticize the Chantry, and that the story itself, rather than characters in it, would like to dismiss my criticism out of hand and call me a jerk for voicing it. That inevitably makes me speak out more radically.

Also, I don't know about others, but if there's similarity to my cricitism of real-world religion and specific instances of it, that's because they and Andrasteanism and the Chantry bug me for mostly the same reasons. As I said elsewhere, what others believe is, in most cases, irrelevant to me, but what actions are taken and which policies are enacted as a result of that belief, that is not irrelevant. The attitude towards magic (which is, according to WoT I, a central tenet) comes across as an attitude against knowledge, against exploration of the unknown (in form of the Fade), against individual empowerment. The Chantry condemns things I see as fundamentally desirable, and that informs their policies - and it makes them my ideological enemy. The Qun is even worse in that, granted, but it is not dominant in the places where we're at home in Thedas, and yet again they aren't treated as the story's pet religion. I get the impression that the writers treat Andrasteanism as a pet religion because it's too reminiscent of their own real-world religion. My criticism attempts to address that as well.