1391 réponses à ce sujet

[BloodKaiden]

So are we all in agreement about the Chantry doing far more good then bad now?
 

No. Some members of the chantry can burn for all I care.

[Pierce Miller]

My human mage Inquisitor wouldn't care how much good it did, they deprived him of a life of luxury and for that he will do everything in his power to destroy it.

[Chari]

I've seen people bring up what happened to the elves in the Dales, the prohibition of worship of the elven pantheon, the treatment of mages in the Chantry controlled Circles, or a number of other issues that pertain to the organization in Thedas; this has also been the case in threads that discuss the Chantry of Andraste and the Andrastian faith. Whether or not you agree, it's clear that people have their own reasons for not liking the Andrastian Chantry, so I don't see why you're saying that people simply dislike it because it's a religion.

Dalish, qunari and dwarves get insulted by such bigots as well, just less because the Chantry is based in Christianity hence it's seen as a bigger evil. And boy do military atheists hate Christianity...

[Medhia_Nox]

@Pierce Miller:  You think freedom's gonna be full of more luxury than - say - the Ferelden Circle tower (the ONLY tower we've ever been able to experience first hand). 

 

Man - you don't support yourself yet - do you?

[TTTX]

Well i prefer templars over another blights like incidents caused by power hungry or insane mages and oh boy we have a lot of them as series shows. 

The mages were lured to the Golden city (which already turned out to be corrupted on the inside) by something or someone unfortunately we don't know who did lured them there, it could be Dumath, or Fenherell or something else entirely.

 

So it's not completely their fault even the best people can lured by something as seen in the Sebastian DLC.

[Medhia_Nox]

@TTTX:  The Magisters were lured by their own hubris... they're hardly "the best".  

 

Sebastian is hardly "the best" too to be honest - he can't even decide what he wants to do with his life and needs Hawke of all people (the coward that ran from the Blight with his mage sister and warrior brother) to decide for him.

[Pierce Miller]

@Pierce Miller:  You think freedom's gonna be full of more luxury than - say - the Ferelden Circle tower (the ONLY tower we've ever been able to experience first hand). 

 

Man - you don't support yourself yet - do you?

Human mages in this game were born into nobility, A far more enjoyable life. Please think things through before posting such silly comments.

[TTTX]

@TTTX:  The Magisters were lured by their own hubris... they're hardly "the best".  

 

Sebastian is hardly "the best" too to be honest - he can't even decide what he wants to do with his life and needs Hawke of all people (the coward that ran from the Blight with his mage sister and warrior brother) to decide for him.

No they weren't one of the original Magisters actually says that they were promised power and such, by Dumath or something/someone who portrayed themselves as Dumath. 

 

I was refereeing to Lady Harimann who desired Sebastian's family power which became her undoing in the end.

[Ieldra]

And boy do military atheists hate Christianity...

I guess you mean "militant atheists hate their culture's dominant religion." Well, I'm not one (militant I mean), but I do understand people who resent that a religious organization infiltrated their schools and tried to indoctrinate them with nonsense for years, and have the gall to claim special knowledge and it's all for their own good and suggest that you're somehow defective for not believing on top of it.

Oh, and let's not forget about instilling guilt complexes for just being what you are, as the Chantry does with mages. You know, I'm normally a tolerant person, but when I meet this woman whose name I forget in DAO's mage origin, the one who castigates herself for being a mage, then yes, I admit at this moment my hate knows no bounds. IMO all the Chantry's other evils pale before this one. There's little worse than systematically making people hate themselves.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Pierce Miller:  Ahh, so you're playing an embittered brat.  Gotcha.  I thought you meant mages in general.  My apologies.

 

@TTTX:  Yes, but nobody "made" the Magisters go.  Their own self-righteous arrogance made them believe they deserved that power. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

The mages were lured to the Golden city (which already turned out to be corrupted on the inside) by something or someone unfortunately we don't know who did lured them there, it could be Dumath, or Fenherell or something else entirely.

 

So it's not completely their fault even the best people can lured by something as seen in the Sebastian DLC.

So what they were power hungry and went to place they shouldn't causing disaster (one of a lot that mages cause) they went there willingly so it is not they were forced.In the end they caused world-scale disaster.

[Ynqve]

I guess you mean "militant atheists hate their culture's dominant religion." Well, I'm not one (militant I mean), but I do understand people who resent that a religious organization infiltrated their schools and tried to indoctrinate them with nonsense for years, and have the gall to claim special knowledge and it's all for their own good and suggest that you're somehow defective for not believing on top of it.

Oh, and let's not forget about instilling guilt complexes for just being what you are, as the Chantry does with mages. You know, I'm normally a tolerant person, but when I meet this woman whose name I forget in DAO's mage origin, the one who castigates herself for being a mage, then yes, I admit at this moment my hate knows no bounds. IMO all the Chantry's other evils pale before this one. There's little worse than systematically making people hate themselves.

 

Look, I agree with you in all of this but the discussion won't lead anywhere good. Some people base their view on atheism by watching Richard Dawkins at his worst. I may agree with a lot of his arguments, but he is an insensitive and pompous ass sometimes. Generally, atheists don't hate religion. We hate it when people try to use their religion to impose restrictions on other people. Like discriminating against the LGBT community or restricting female sexuality. But honestly, I don't care if an organization is religious or secular, if it does things like that then I'll be opposed to it. So that's why I dislike the Chantry so much. Not because it's a religious institution, but because it imposes on other peoples rights.

 

Does the Chantry do any good? I'm quite sure that it does. But that doesn't take away from the bad things. Just as the bad things doesn't take away from the good. To me, the bad outweighs the good and that's why I dislike the Chantry. People with different views on mages and elves will have a different opinion, and that's fine. I hope we all get to deal with the Chantry in a satisfactory manner in our own playthroughs. 

[RobRam10]

So what they were power hungry and went to place they shouldn't causing disaster (one of a lot that mages cause) they went there willingly so it is not they were forced.In the end they caused world-scale disaster.

So what they were power hungry and went to place they shouldn't causing disaster (one of a lot that mages cause) they went there willingly so it is not they were forced.In the end they caused world-scale disaster.

When you are offered the chance to become a god any risk is worth it.

[TTTX]

@Pierce Miller:  Ahh, so you're playing an embittered brat.  Gotcha.  I thought you meant mages in general.  My apologies.

 

@TTTX:  Yes, but nobody "made" the Magisters go.  Their own self-righteous arrogance made them believe they deserved that power. 

Of course no one did made them go, but ask yourself this how many would turn down the opportunity to gain power that is offered by a "God"?

 

 

So what they were power hungry and went to place they shouldn't causing disaster (one of a lot that mages cause) they went there willingly so it is not they were forced.In the end they caused world-scale disaster.

A lot of people we have meet in Thedas are power hungry, but don't forget if it wasn't for the blights the Tevinter Empire wouldn't have broken down to a fraction of their power by Andraste.

 

So some good did come out of the whole thing when you look at it.

 

 

When you are offered the chance to become a god any risk is worth?

That depends on the person, but let's face not many would turn down such an offer.

[Pierce Miller]

@Pierce Miller:  Ahh, so you're playing an embittered brat.  Gotcha.  I thought you meant mages in general.  My apologies.

 

@TTTX:  Yes, but nobody "made" the Magisters go.  Their own self-righteous arrogance made them believe they deserved that power. 

An embittered brat to you perhaps but being denied wealth and power just because you're better than everyone else makes not one bit of sense.

[TK514]

@TTTX:  The Magisters were lured by their own hubris... they're hardly "the best".  

 

Sebastian is hardly "the best" too to be honest - he can't even decide what he wants to do with his life and needs Hawke of all people (the coward that ran from the Blight with his mage sister and warrior brother) to decide for him.

 

Since when is fleeing an unstoppable natural disaster that will absolutely butcher everything in its path 'cowardice'?

[TheKomandorShepard]

When you are offered the chance to become a god any risk is worth it.

Yeah because it worked for them as well rest of the world... stupidity have its price what mages love to prove.

 

 

 

A lot of people we have meet in Thedas are power hungry, but don't forget if it wasn't for the blights the Tevinter Empire wouldn't have broken down to a fraction of their power by Andraste.

 

So some good did come out of the whole thing when you look at it.

 

 

If not mages there wouldn't be tevinter in first place and second part i don't see how exchange for tevinter (that still exists) for darkspawn and apocalypse is any better it is like saying that thanks to that your house burned down you found 10 dollars.

[Riven326]

At it's core, I believe the Chantry is good. It's methods are flawed, but still necessary.

[TTTX]

An embittered brat to you perhaps but being denied wealth and power just because you're better than everyone else makes not one bit of sense.

Just because you are born into a family with a lot of wealth and power doesn't mean you are better then everyone else, plenty of nobles have showed that they can be some times the biggest A-holes of them all.

[Pierce Miller]

Just because you are born into a family with a lot of wealth and power doesn't mean you are better then everyone else, plenty of nobles have showed that they can be some times the biggest A-holes of them all.

No he's better than everyone else because he's a mage

[TTTX]

If not mages there wouldn't be tevinter in first place and second part i don't see how exchange for tevinter (that still exists) for darkspawn and apocalypse is any better it is like saying that thanks to that your house burned down you found 10 dollars.

If it weren't for mages the elves would pretty much still rule Thedas and if the blights hadn't happen Tevinter would have ruled Thedas for very long time the first blight lasted around 200 years and that only weakened Tevinter that's 200 years of constant fighting.

[TTTX]

No he's better than everyone else because he's a mage

no he is not, the mages that rules Tevinter shows very well that they are not better then everyone else, they are just as flawed as everyone else.

[TheKomandorShepard]

If it weren't for mages the elves would pretty much still rule Thedas and if the blights hadn't happen Tevinter would have ruled Thedas for very long time the first blight lasted around 200 years and that only weakened Tevinter that's 200 years of constant fighting.

If not mages elves still would be crushed as humans are superior to them as we know because of many examples.Besides you don't have even info what means andraste used against as it is said she used "maker wrath" or super powerful magic that even tevinter couldn't handle so well...

[Mistic]

If it weren't for mages the elves would pretty much still rule Thedas and if the blights hadn't happen Tevinter would have ruled Thedas for very long time the first blight lasted around 200 years and that only weakened Tevinter that's 200 years of constant fighting.

 

No, I have to agree with TKS. Centuries of Blights have done many worse crimes than Tevinter in all its history. The Imperium is a horrible place to live in, and the Imperium of old even more, but that's still much better than extinction by darkspawn.

[Pierce Miller]

no he is not, the mages that rules Tevinter shows very well that they are not better then everyone else, they are just as flawed as everyone else.

They have magic though, That more than makes up for a few "personality flaws"