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#826
Master Warder Z_

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According to history it's neigh impossible.

 

Peace is an unnatural state of mankind. Hell, Civilization is an unnatural state of man, let's be frank.

 

Hence why i support a lot of means to support the continuation of it, because what is left when it's gone?

 

Anarchy, Chaos and Death.



#827
Hellion Rex

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Oh like hell Gaspard would ever rule the damn continent.
He'd have to get around both Tevinter and the Qunari.

#828
Mistic

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In my experience, much conflict and violence stems from cultural or national difference, that flies out the window when there only is a single Nation.

 

One Banner, One people, One world.

 

There are some people in Thedas that agree with you. After all, struggle is but an illusion. The tide rises, the tide falls, but the sea is changeless. There is nothing to struggle against.

 

Victory is in the Qun :P

 

Tevinter,Orlais and the Qunari all tried and the rest of the world violently disagreed.

 

Tevinter: "Hey! Don't put us together with those barbarians! We didn't try. We did it. For 351 years."


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#829
Tenebrae

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Peace is an unnatural state of mankind. Hell, Civilization is an unnatural state of man, let's be frank.

 

Hence why i support a lot of means to support the continuation of it, because what is left when it's gone?

 

Anarchy, Chaos and Death.

 

True enough, as they say peace is merely an interlude to war.



#830
Ynqve

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It also made Scandinavia weak, it gave the rest of the European powers exactly what they wanted, just like France tried to keep Germany from forming, only in your case they succeed.

 

This is OT. But in the end both Sweden and Norway benefited from it. Sweden were able to stay neutral during WW2 (and that was a huge advantage) and Norway got to keep all of that oil revenue. Just to mention two examples. 

 

Spoiler

 

Oh trust me I kind of agree about Scandinavia. But our countries are structured in a similar way. And there's a reason why Sweden and Finland have stayed out of Nato. It's not necessarily your reason, but still. 



#831
Master Warder Z_

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There are some people in Thedas that agree with you. After all, struggle is but an illusion. The tide rises, the tide falls, but the sea is changeless. There is nothing to struggle against.

 

Victory is in the Qun  :P

 

Right, I forgot.

 

I also wanted Thedas united so it would have a much more uniform and precise reaction to the Qunari and Darkspawn threat.



#832
Shadow Fox

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Peace is an unnatural state of mankind. Hell, Civilization is an unnatural state of man, let's be frank.

 

Hence why i support a lot of means to support the continuation of it, because what is left when it's gone?

 

Anarchy, Chaos and Death.

Well to be honest I like the idea of liberty in Thedas I just don't think completely tearing down the government of a country is ever a good idea unless you're willing and able to use force to enforce your new government and keep order&the peace and deal with dissidents*which sounds tyrannical to me*.

 

I also think it's naive to assume doing so wouldn't result in a painful transition period for the country as a consequence given modern democracy is built on/the result of such pain.



#833
Tenebrae

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This is OT. But in the end both Sweden and Norway benefited from it. Sweden were able to stay neutral during WW2 (and that was a huge advantage) and Norway got to keep all of that oil revenue. Just to mention two examples. 

 

I wasn't discounting that, though i do believe a united Scandinavia (as a single nation) could have achieved a great deal more, but for now that ship has sailed, a shame really, though you may not agree with me.

 

But then again I have always been a great fan of super nations and sadly there were so many missed opportunity’s for them to be born, oh well i guess we'll see what the future brings.



#834
Mistic

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Right, I forgot.

 

I also wanted Thedas united so it would have a much more uniform and precise reaction to the Qunari and Darkspawn threat.

 

The darkspawn are a threat to all life, but why the Qunari? They believe that conflict is based on senseless differences, and they love the idea of uniting Thedas "under a single banner, a single empire, a single culture, a single method of thought and faith." The Arishok would approve and support you.

 

Or are you saying that it isn't just a matter of uniting Thedas under a single banner, but that you have preferences about that banner, mh? That maybe there are more important things than just preserving peace, unity and civilization in Thedas? ;)



#835
Ynqve

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I wasn't discounting that, though i do believe i united Scandinavia (as a single nation) could have achieved a great deal more, but for now that ship has sailed.

 

Then again i have always been a great fan of super nations and sadly not many are left, oh well i guess we'll see what the future brings.

 

Trust me, we're way better of as separate states. 



#836
Master Warder Z_

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The darkspawn are a threat to all life, but why the Qunari? They believe that conflict is based on senseless differences, and they love the idea of uniting Thedas "under a single banner, a single empire, a single culture, a single method of thought and faith." The Arishok would approve and support you.

 

Or are you saying that it isn't just a matter of uniting Thedas under a single banner, but that you have preferences about that banner, mh? That maybe there are more important things than just preserving peace, unity and civilization in Thedas? ;)

 

The Qunari cannot achieve what i propose, They seek to obliterate the commonality i seek to exploit to found such a state.

 

Hence why i say Thedas has an advantage over the world that we live in, they more or less have a uniform religion, they more or less have a uniform idea of how things should happen, it just needs to be directed slightly.

 

The Qunari want to overhaul the entire thing and replace it with their own system.

 

Ultimately isn't about the banner as much as it is the social constructs that exist within Thedas.



#837
Tenebrae

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Trust me, we're way better of as separate states. 

 

As you are right now? Yes i would tend to agree with you it would cause more harm then good but circumstances and conditions can change given time, after all it did require the right set of circumstances and conditions for the German sate to be born.

 

And they were far more divided then you.



#838
Mistic

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The Qunari cannot achieve what i propose, They seek to obliterate the commonality i seek to exploit to found such a state.

 

Hence why i say Thedas has an advantage over the world that we live in, they more or less have a uniform religion, they more or less have a uniform idea of how things should happen, it just needs to be directed slightly.

 

The Qunari want to overhaul the entire thing and replace it with their own system.

 

Ultimately isn't about the banner as much as it is the social constructs that exist within Thedas.

 

Then why not the Tevinter Imperium? They are Chantry too, although slightly different, and they have even more commonality since the vast majority of the current states were born from Tevinter provinces conquered by barbarians. Tevinter buildings and infraestructures are a good reminder of a time where Thedas was united by a single, powerful empire. And they have experience; several centuries of world domination, so they aren't wannabes. Also, they're the most experienced at fighting darkspawn and Qunari too. What else could you ask for?


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#839
Master Warder Z_

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What else could you ask for?

 

A State that can actually bring forth the muscle needed to bring about the change, Orlais has the wealth, manpower and position at the present time to bring forth what i seek.

 

Tevinter is more then a thousand years from it's prime recall, its fighting a losing war against the Qunari.

 

Orlais on the other hand, is damn near at it's apex.

 

Once this civil war and breach business is resolved, it will go back to being the strongest nation in the world.

 

In the aftermath of that...well it will be interesting i think.



#840
Tenebrae

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On topic though, do you have an answer for me Ynqve? How do you propose to create a democracy or have any sort of equal rights and personal freedom when the ruling nobles have super powers (magic) either themselves or at their disposal?

 

I honestly cant see any reason for them to bow to pressure from the peasantry, and attempting to violently oust them would ending in failure.



#841
Ynqve

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On topic though, do you have an answer for me Ynqve? How do you propose to create a democracy or have any sort of equal right when the ruling nobles have super powers (magic) either themselves or at their disposal?

 

I honestly cant see any reason for them to bow the pressure from the peasantry.

 

I actually favor a system like the one they have in Ferelden. It's far from ideal but it's a step in the right direction. You work your way from there.

 

Edit: i suppose it also means that you need to ensure that you put the right people in charge. 



#842
Tenebrae

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I actually favor a system like the one they have in Ferelden. It's far from ideal but it's a step in the right direction. You work your way from there.

 

Edit: i suppose it also means that you need to ensure that you put the right people in charge. 

 

The system in Ferelden is all well and good, but you know how other nobles view the Ferelden way of ruling, they find it ridiculous especially the Orlaisens (right to rule granted by the Maker and all that), why would they choose to adopt the Ferelden style on governance when all it does it weaken their own personal power-base, they gain nothing so how would you convince them ,diplomatically of course, to relinquish rights and privileges for those who they view as inferior to them?

 

And i doubt the Ferelden nobles would respond to kindly to farther reduction of their power in favor of the peasantry, and we still have the issue of magic hanging over the head of any would be reformist, why fight the rebelling commoners when you can unleash a demon army on them? imagine the psychological effect of that, it would crumb any notion of rights or democracy for a long long time, if not forever.



#843
Master Warder Z_

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why fight the rebelling commoners when you can unleash a demon army on them? imagine the psychological effect of that, i would crumb any notion of right or democracy form a long long time, if not forever.

 

It didn't work for the Imperium in their war against Andraste; people still joined her by the legion.

 

But then that was to overthrow a magocracy, not instill democracy.



#844
Shadow Fox

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I actually favor a system like the one they have in Ferelden. It's far from ideal but it's a step in the right direction. You work your way from there.

 

Edit: i suppose it also means that you need to ensure that you put the right people in charge. 

Elves are forbidden from defending themselves against humans in Ferelden.



#845
Mistic

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A State that can actually bring forth the muscle needed to bring about the change, Orlais has the wealth, manpower and position at the present time to bring forth what i seek.

 

Tevinter is more then a thousand years from it's prime recall, its fighting a losing war against the Qunari.

 

Orlais on the other hand, is damn near at it's apex.

 

Once this civil war and breach business is resolved, it will go back to being the strongest nation in the world.

 

In the aftermath of that...well it will be interesting i think.

 

Damn near at its apex? That was during Drakon's times. Orlais has been living from that for centuries. In the old times Orlais was content because the territories they lost (Anderfels, Nevarra, Kirkwall, even Ferelden) were conquered lands. However, in the last years Orlais has lost Orlesian territory to Nevarra, plus decades of conflict in Ferelden that in the end were for nothing. They were recovering thanks to Celene's policies, but with the civil war and the breach, I don't see them capable of any world-conquering feat in the near future.

 

I actually favor a system like the one they have in Ferelden. It's far from ideal but it's a step in the right direction. You work your way from there.

 

Edit: i suppose it also means that you need to ensure that you put the right people in charge. 

 

And how do you do that? The Fereldan system is based on land property. If you aren't a landowner, forget about politics. It's not democracy. In fact, it's more similar to the Tevinter Magisterium, with the difference that the Magisterium actually assembles more regularly than the Landsmeet and they use magic blood instead of land property as the requisite. Yet nobody uses the Tevinter Imperium as the best hope for democracy in Thedas.



#846
Master Warder Z_

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Elves are forbidden from defending themselves against humans in Ferelden.

 

Poor Elves, Their ancient ******* ancestors ruined them forever.



#847
Shadow Fox

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It didn't work for the Imperium in their war against Andraste; people still joined her by the legion.

 

But then that was to overthrow a magocracy, not instill democracy.

Her rebellion also failed though didn't it?



#848
Ynqve

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The system in Ferelden is all well and good, but you know how other nobles view the Ferelden way of ruling, they find it ridiculous especially the Orlaisens (right to rule granted by the Maker and all that), why would they choose to adopt the Ferelden style on governance when all it does it weaken their own personal power-base.

 

And i doubt the Ferelden nobles would respond to kindly to farther reduction of their power in favor of the peasantry, we still have the issue of magic hanging over the head of any would be reformist, why fight the rebelling commoners when you can unleash a demon army on them? imagine the psychological effect of that, i would crumb any notion of right or democracy form a long long time, if not forever.

 

I never said it would be easy. I never said it would be quick. And they don't need to like it, just as you don't need to like it. I'll work towards giving more power to the common people, I'll give the mages and elves their rights back. I'll try to limit the power of the nobles and organizations like the Chantry. But you don't need to do it. And you won't convince me that it's wrong or stupid, so let's just drop it. 

 

 

Elves are forbidden from defending themselves against humans in Ferelden.

 

I was talking about things like the Landsmeet... And, and now we're back to reformation. As I said, it's far from ideal so how about reforming the system so that elves get their equal rights? 


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#849
dragonflight288

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There is no emotion, there is peace.                                                          Peace is a lie, there is only passion

There is no passion, there is serenity.                                                       Through passion, I gain strength.

There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.                                                Through strength, I gain power. 

There is no chaos, there is harmony.                                                        Through power, I gain victory. 

There is no death, there is the Fade.                                                         Through victory my chains are broken.

                                                                                                                   The Fade shall free me. 


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#850
Shadow Fox

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I never said it would be easy. I never said it would be quick. And they don't need to like it, just as you don't need to like it. I'll work towards giving more power to the common people, I'll give the mages and elves their rights back. I'll try to limit the power of the nobles and organizations like the Chantry. But you don't need to do it. And you won't convince me that it's wrong or stupid, so let's just drop it. 

 

 

 

I was talking about things like the Landsmeet... And, and now we're back to reformation. As I said, it's far from ideal so how about reforming the system so that elves get their equal rights? 

Sure just expect it to take 3 centuries at-least.