My view?
The Mages, Elves, Commoners, and Nobility only care about themselves and don't give a crap about anyone else. Andraste was the last human in Thedas who cared about freeing slaves, helping elves, AND treating Mages like people.
And we saw how that worked out.
So, I'm going to be Andraste and fight for the justice of all--even though everyone is going to ignore or misconstrue it because they hate elves, mages, and people who aren't them.
The "big" deal is that; When you cite why a change wouldn't work, you are apparently "not using your brain".
People having different opinions and dealing with the chantry accordingly isn't that big of a deal.
Because you aren't, it's always the same. You want an evil empire and kill everyone who doesn't agree. it's a simple solution. But to me, honestly it's stupid and short term.
From the game Overlord.
"Killing innocents, and I use the term loosely, is all well and good, but building an empire requires people, living people, to run it for you. Gratitude comes with its own rewards."
Because you aren't
Your opinion as inaccurate as it is your own.
You want an evil empire and kill everyone who doesn't agree.
Evil? I have not mentioned morality once, and the plan i propose relies more upon change through implanted social constructs, then conquest.
It seems YOU are the one who is not using your eyes.
it's a simple solution. But to me, honestly it's stupid and short term.
Simple? Stupid? Short Term?
Is it simple to use the fabric of a society to expand it into a ergonomic entity? To turn Faith into the tool of building an Empire, I would argue no.
Stupid, I would say trying to shift society upside down, and then dismissing the likely consequences of that would fit that title.
Short term, I cannot see the future but Empires generally last at least one generation.
Usually many.
Calling someone an idiot is a sure fire way to kill a conversation, those type people are not really interested in a conversation or a debate they tend to deal in self glorification, and i share your dislike for such practices.
You want to play the reformer and that’s fine, but even if you ignore the nobility and tell them to just suck it up, which i don’t see working out well, and i don’t imagine they will just sit there and let tear down their entire way of life, you still have to with an uneducated/ignorant public that has no concept of liberty, rights, democracy etc.
Even more so liberating the peasantry most likely won’t improve the lot minorities like the elves, mages, dwarves. After all why would the human peasantry care for the welfare of non-humans, when it takes for them to hate another human is for him to be from another nation.
Come to think of it, how do you rationalize your character having these bizarre (in Theads at least) ideals?
I won't ignore the nobility completely, I'll try to play the diplomat and reach some compromises. The same goes for the peasants, you'll have to show people that the change is worth it and give them time to adjust. And the last part? Easy, I'll play as a mage. As a member of the an oppressed minority she'll know how much that sucks and therefore try to help others in the same situation.
You want to play the reformer and that’s fine, but even if you ignore the nobility and tell them to just suck it up, which i don’t see working out well, and i don’t imagine they will just sit there and let tear down their entire way of life, you still have to with an uneducated/ignorant public that has no concept of liberty, rights, democracy etc.
Even more so liberating the peasantry most likely won’t improve the lot of the minorities like the elves, mages, dwarves. After all why would the human peasantry care for the welfare of non-humans, when all it takes for them to hate another human is for him to be from another nation.
Come to think of it, how do you rationalize your character having these bizarre (in Theads at least) ideals?
It's not as though it's completely alien to Thedas; Aldenon the Wise (who brought the warring teyrnirs together alongside Calenhad) wanted something similar for Ferelden. According to the codex entry "Freedom's Promise", "Aldenon conceived a plan to enlist strong allies and Calenhad went into the Brecilian Forest to make it so. But unbeknownst to the mage, Calenhad had made contact with the Chantry. When Calenhad returned at the head of the Ash Warriors as Aldenon expected, so as well did templars and Circle mages join our host. Aldenon was in a fury such as I've never seen. He wanted a kingdom of free men, of moral people beholden to law. Where a common man could tend his land safely and in peace."
It didn't work for the Imperium in their war against Andraste; people still joined her by the legion.
But then that was to overthrow a magocracy, not instill democracy.
I don't think the Imperium ever opened rifts or summoned demons on such a massive scale, well there were the Darkspawn but that was an unintended result, i believe the rifts and massive demon armies are quite new.
Though I wouldn't put it past the Imperium to try and weaponize it now that they know it can be done, make it localized and controlled and it could be a very powerful weapon, more than equal to our own biological/chemical weapons, only more horrifying.
Aldenon the wise
Apparently wasn't all that wise.
I don't think the Imperium ever opened rifts or summoned demons on such a massive scale, well there were the Darkspawn but that was an unintended result, i believe the rifts and massive demon armies are quite new.
Though I wouldn't put it past the Imperium to try and weaponize it now that they know it can be done, make it localized and controlled and it could be a very powerful weapon, more than equal to our own biological/chemical weapons, only more horrifying.
http://dragonage.wik...ntry:_Chapter_1
They summoned demons; as mentioned in this codex.
Spoiler
You've stated that your character is going to be lawful evil (not in this thread, but in others). And yes, I find a totalitarian theocracy to be a vile and disgusting thing. There is no room for free thinking or debate. You need violence to enforce these restrictions and that will sooner or later lead to rebellions. It's not a good solution to anything, it's just brushing it under the rug to deal with it later. The issues are still there. But again, this is just my opinion.
Its fictional game with different world states, I don't understand what's the big deal.
The Dalish and Magi boons were either dead in the water or didn't last a decade,a non Elven Warden bann is either murdered or leaves the alienage in disgust and if Anora's on the throne she puts her boot down on it regardless of who's ruling it and that was just Ferelden,
If the "good guys" couldn't even embrace the basic concepts of democracy what makes you think the rest of Thedas will?
The Dalish and Magi boons were either dead in the water or didn't last a decade and that was just Ferelden,
If the "good guys" couldn't even embrace the basic concepts of democracy what makes you think the rest of Thedas will?
Got to love it when the reality of the world around you shatters the soap bubble dreams.
Got to love it when the reality of the world around you shatters the soap bubble dreams.
A lot of scumbags are dead by the end of the heroes' journey and the Mages are (finally) revolting.
No one said change is EASY.
I don't think democracy is possible in Thedas or Equal Rights NOW. However, only idiots like the Chantry Loyalists (sorry, Vivienne) want to keep things AS IS.
theoretically if the chantry were to crumble you'd need to replace it with something (inquisition?) or youd have a serious power vaccum, the southern nations would start to bicker amongst themselves for supremacy further weakening the andrastian countries (as if ferelden and orlais needed further bloodshed with the losses they've taken) for the inevitable qunari invasion
A lot of scumbags are dead by the end of the heroes' journey and the Mages are (finally) revolting.
No one said change is EASY.
I don't think democracy is possible in Thedas or Equal Rights NOW. However, only idiots like the Chantry Loyalists (sorry, Vivienne) want to keep things AS IS.
Idiots?
The System as is has kept Thedas more or less intact for the prior thousand years, how much worse do you think it would have been for every one had there not been an organized force to meet the Qunari? Or Darkspawn?.
But i agree, Change is needed.
Both with the circle, and the management of Thedas.
theoretically if the chantry were to crumble you'd need to replace it with something (inquisition?) or youd have a serious power vaccum, the southern nations would start to bicker amongst themselves for supremacy further weakening the andrastian countries (as if ferelden and orlais needed further bloodshed with the losses they've taken) for the inevitable qunari invasion
Eh, we've seen what would happen in RL. If the Chantry crumbled, it'd just become a bunch of mini-chantries. Religion won't disappear even if the Papal Authority vanishes--which it seems to have done so.
Idiots?
The System as is has kept Thedas more or less intact for the prior thousand years, how much worse do you think it would have been for every one had there not been an organized force to meet the Qunari? Or Darkspawn?.
Your definition of intact is much different from mine? Thedas is a warring collection of dissident states always at each others' throats with constant in-fighting. Tevinter and the Qunari are only not able to conquer the rest of it due to the fact they hate each other every bit as much as they do the rest of Thedas. There's also the fact the Anderfels look like Fallout 3's Capital Wasteland.
If this is the best we can do, it is a sorry-sorry achievement.
Likewise, the system is implied to be constantly changing. It grows more oppressive, less oppressive, new groups rise and fall. Change happens all the time in Thedas.
At least everyone is in agreement that the status quo needs isn't good...
Like i said, i know they summoned demons for war, but it wasnt on such a scale.
I mean look at this!
Now imagine it as a precise weapon at the disposal of the Imperium, that would be a game changer.
It's not as though it's completely alien to Thedas; Aldenon the Wise (who brought the warring teyrnirs together alongside Calenhad) wanted something similar for Ferelden. According to the codex entry "Freedom's Promise", "Aldenon conceived a plan to enlist strong allies and Calenhad went into the Brecilian Forest to make it so. But unbeknownst to the mage, Calenhad had made contact with the Chantry. When Calenhad returned at the head of the Ash Warriors as Aldenon expected, so as well did templars and Circle mages join our host. Aldenon was in a fury such as I've never seen. He wanted a kingdom of free men, of moral people beholden to law. Where a common man could tend his land safely and in peace."
Well there you have it then, having in game lore to lean on makes the whole playthrough much more enjoyable, kudos on the contribution Lobse.
I won't ignore the nobility completely, I'll try to play the diplomat and reach some compromises. The same goes for the peasants, you'll have to show people that the change is worth it and give them time to adjust. And the last part? Easy, I'll play as a mage. As a member of the an oppressed minority she'll know how much that sucks and therefore try to help others in the same situation.
Even if you don’t ignore them completely, i don’t see how you can convince them that losing their power and privileges is in their best interest, and trying to educate peasant a medieval like peasantry class is like trying to squeeze water out of a cactus, you need to remove all the thorns and that take a long time and you are likely to be pricked, we were able to achieve a certain level of freedom, equal right s, democracy etc, because we had a preexisting foundation that took many generations to build, how do you propose to do that in less than one?
And even if you succeed what about the Imperium, or the Qunari?
At least everyone is in agreement that the status quo needs isn't good...
I do think it's nicely realistic. Orlais is a hell hole for the commoners but the noblemen don't realize this and think they're the good guys.
Fereldan's nobility is oppressive but they look like saints compared to Orlais.
And as bad as Orlais is, it's BETTER than the Qunari.
But the Qunari are seemingly very high standard of living for everyone so you can understand why people convert too.
At least everyone is in agreement that the status quo needs isn't good...
well the staus quo is crumbling, even if it was a completely good thing it just wont work as is any longer
Your definition of intact is much different from mine? Thedas is a warring collection of dissident states always at each others' throats with constant in-fighting. Tevinter and the Qunari are only not able to conquer the rest of it due to the fact the fact
The last they time tried, they were facing barbarian tribes or an enemy that outnumbered then five hundred to one?
Tevinter assumed dominion over Thedas when there was little to no organized resistance to meet them, no nation existed save their own and the elven state.
On the other hand, the Qunar faced individual Nations, ones that could throw armies at their problem again and again, and they did, and the Qunari broke under sheer numeric superiority and a few nifty stratagems.
The War bankrupted Thedas and broke, but the Qunari retreated.
Civilization has come to Thedas, such as it is.
Tevinter would no longer face barbarian tribes who spread across what would be a country, they would face armies.
And the Qunari? They lost before because they cannot compete with Thedosian numbers, Humans outnumber Qunari to a ridiculous extent.
Even if you don’t ignore them completely, i don’t see how you can convince them that losing their power and privileges is in their best interest, and trying to educate peasant a medieval like peasantry class is like trying to squeeze water out of a cactus, you need to remove all the thorns and that take a long time and you are likely to be pricked, we were able to achieve a certain level of freedom, equal right s, democracy etc, because we had a preexisting foundation that took many generations to build, how do you propose to do that in less than one?
And even if you succeed what about the Imperium, or the Qunari?
As I said, it's a difficult and slow process. I'm counting on a few setbacks and heavy opposition. I don't expect the change to be complete, but I can lay the foundation.
Honestly, I think allying yourself with the mages and elves are a great way of boosting your defenses against both the Imperium and the Qun. The Dalish are badasses, and mages are well... Mages.
Tevinter would no longer face barbarian tribes who spread across what would be a country, they would face armies.
And the Qunari? They lost before because they cannot compete with Thedosian numbers, Humans outnumber Qunari to a ridiculous extent.
I agree, under current circumstances, but the Tevinter would be a major force if they recruited the other mages to their cause. And, you know, stopped infighting.
As for the Qunari, they're making a lot of inroads because conversion to the Qun wins more flies with honey than swords.
People hate the class strats SO MUCH they prefer losing all freedom.
A lot of scumbags are dead by the end of the heroes' journey and the Mages are (finally) revolting.
No one said change is EASY.
I don't think democracy is possible in Thedas or Equal Rights NOW. However, only idiots like the Chantry Loyalists (sorry, Vivienne) want to keep things AS IS.
The problem is it seems a lot of people are under estimating just how hard it is to make lasting changes especially in a setting were the idea of basic human rights are a foreign concept.
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