1391 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravensword]

then nothing of importance will be lost

But the prize.

[TTTX]

 

Trust me, we're way better of as separate states. 

Apparently not in Denmark, our politicians really want us to be nothing more then a a small state of EU.

 

Democracy isn't that different from ruling lords and such, we just elect them and only if we are lucky we get some good people that actually do what they promise but a good number of politicians is more concerned with getting more money to themselves or have their own agenda that is not in the countries best interest.

[MisterJB]

Over the years we have argued and insulted each other and generally created a climate of hostility where, as soon as a topic rears it heads, the usuals will entrench themselves.

I think it has become obvious to everyone that there is only one way to solve this situation.

 

Mutiplayer PVP!

 

 

Templars vs Mages; Humans vs Elves! Allows us to pick a faction and go to town on each other. That way, we shall prove the righteousness of our causes and release some tension.

[Willowhugger]

 

Apparently not in Denmark, our politicians really want us to be nothing more then a a small state of EU.

 

Democracy isn't that different from ruling lords and such, we just elect them and only if we are lucky we get some good people that actually do what they promise but a good number of politicians is more concerned with getting more money to themselves or have their own agenda that is not in the countries best interest.

 

While democracy can and often is racked with crony-ism, corruption, incompetance, and worse--I'd like to point out that this is a 1st World Problem versus a 3rd World Problem. The difference between democracy and feudalism is a pretty clear one. It's one measured in lives. If people don't like the fact they've gone to war with someone, in 4 or some odd years, they can vote someone out. In feudalism, they can't do a dang thing about it. If they have a problem with being taxed to poverty, again, voting in 4 or so years. Again, no chance.

 

Checks and balances are pretty damn awesome and what they can do even in a limited amount is great. I'm no great fan of my country's democratically elected leaders but I'm pretty sure none of them can go purge the local Alienage on a whim or send people to the torture chamber. Well, not so much the later lately but that's a different off-topic issue.

 

Arl Howe is what you sometimes get in Fereldan and Fereldan is the NICEST feudal state in Thedas.

[Br3admax]

Over the years we have argued and insulted each other and generally created a climate of hostility where, as soon as a topic rears it heads, the usuals will entrench themselves.

I think it has become obvious to everyone that there is only one way to solve this situation.

 

Mutiplayer PVP!

 

 

Templars vs Mages; Humans vs Elves! Allows us to pick a faction and go to town on each other. That way, we shall prove the righteousness of our causes and release some tension.

It's just not as satisfying as the in cutscene exterminations seen in Dragon Age 2. 

[TTTX]

While democracy can and often is racked with crony-ism, corruption, incompetance, and worse--I'd like to point out that this is a 1st World Problem versus a 3rd World Problem. The difference between democracy and feudalism is a pretty clear one. It's one measured in lives. If people don't like the fact they've gone to war with someone, in 4 or some odd years, they can vote someone out. In feudalism, they can't do a dang thing about it. If they have a problem with being taxed to poverty, again, voting in 4 or so years. Again, no chance.

 

Checks and balances are pretty damn awesome and what they can do even in a limited amount is great. I'm no great fan of my country's democratically elected leaders but I'm pretty sure none of them can go purge the local Alienage on a whim or send people to the torture chamber. Well, not so much the later lately but that's a different off-topic issue.

 

Arl Howe is what you sometimes get in Fereldan and Fereldan is the NICEST feudal state in Thedas.

It comes down to how much power a politician has, if s/he is loved by the people and if s/he manages to keep the people in dark, etc.

[Lulupab]

It's just not as satisfying as the in cutscene exterminations seen in Dragon Age 2.

Perhaps, but nothing beats Meredith death. Watching your own body turn to stone slowly with full conscious, the screams were delicious and so were Templars wetting their pants when Hawke gazed at them with his/her death glare after the deed was done. That death scene was probably one of the most gruesome deaths made by Bioware, I mean just compare to Anders' almost instant death. I can't help but to think it was a mercy killing and he is free at last.

[TK514]

Perhaps, but nothing beats Meredith death. Watching your own body turn to stone slowly with full conscious, the screams were delicious and so were Templars wetting their pants when Hawke gazed at them with his/her death glare after the deed was done. That death scene was probably one of the most gruesome deaths made by Bioware, I mean just compare to Anders' almost instant death. I can't help but to think it was a mercy killing and he is free at last.

 

I don't know, I found Orsino equally satisfying.  He betrays and murders everything he cares about, and then loses his very identity, reason, and intellect in some misguided and hypocritical attempt at suicide, only to end up literally stepped on like a bug.  That a 'great mage' would willingly murder those he swore to lead and protect in order to reduce himself to nothing more than vermin is pretty epic. 

[TTTX]

I don't know, I found Orsino equally satisfying.  He betrays and murders everything he cares about, and then loses his very identity, reason, and intellect in some misguided and hypocritical attempt at suicide, only to end up literally stepped on like a bug.  That a 'great mage' would willingly murder those he swore to lead and protect in order to reduce himself to nothing more than vermin is pretty epic. 

He only murders if you choose to side with Meredith, but yeah he betrays pretty much everything he is suppose to stand for, but so does Meredith.

[Willowhugger]

He only murders if you choose to side with Meredith, but yeah he betrays pretty much everything he is suppose to stand for, but so does Meredith.

 

Honestly, I didn't think he was betraying anyone.

He decided to do a blood magic ritual to destroy the Templars and screwed it up.

[Icy Magebane]

Meredith's mind was taken over by an ancient magical artifact... considering what it did to Bartrand, I'm amazed she was even able to form complete sentences throughout Act 3.  Orsino on the other hand, simply cracked under the pressure... even when his forces were winning due to Hawke's aid, he folded.  He had no excuse for being so weak, and it was actually kind of pathetic how his life ended (although the Mage ending was much worse considering they were winning...).  Overall, he wasn't a very impressive character.  It's no wonder the Kirkwall Circle became corrupted under his leadership.

[TTTX]

Honestly, I didn't think he was betraying anyone.

He decided to do a blood magic ritual to destroy the Templars and screwed it up.

Those kinds of rituals are inhuman, although I understand why he did it in both choices it doesn't make him innocent no matter his intentions.

 

 

Meredith's mind was taken over by an ancient magical artifact... considering what it did to Bartrand, I'm amazed she was even able to form complete sentences throughout Act 3.  Orsino on the other hand, simply cracked under the pressure... even when his forces were winning due to Hawke's aid, he folded.  He had no excuse for being so weak, and it was actually kind of pathetic how his life ended (although the Mage ending was much worse considering they were winning...).  Overall, he wasn't a very impressive character.  It's no wonder the Kirkwall Circle became infested by blood mages under his leadership.

both Meredith and Orison aren't that well written and that's because we don't spend a lot of time with them not until act 3 which is a pretty short act.

 

Yeah, it's been said that the only reason why Orsino turned in the mage ending it's because the devs wanted another boss, in other words because the game demanded he turned he cracked, similar to how Meredith turned on Hawke even though you supported templars all way through the game.

Kirkwall circle was indeed infected with bloodmages, but I get the feeling that more because of Meredith's and Alrik's actions that made them bloodmages rather then because of Orsino's incompetents after all at start of act 3 we basically see that he doesn't hold much power over the circle and he can't do much thanks to Meredith, he could report what ever blood mages he knows about, but Meredith would just see that as the entire circle being bloodmages rather then a few of them.

[Lulupab]

I don't know, I found Orsino equally satisfying.  He betrays and murders everything he cares about, and then loses his very identity, reason, and intellect in some misguided and hypocritical attempt at suicide, only to end up literally stepped on like a bug.  That a 'great mage' would willingly murder those he swore to lead and protect in order to reduce himself to nothing more than vermin is pretty epic.

The Harvester was no longer Orsino, it was a creature who had no mind, no sense etc... Completely driven by madness and malice. However it dies it doesn't matter. How is this satisfying? We didn't even kill Orsino. Remember GoH DLC in DAO? A harvester merely has blood and flesh of its creators, nothing else. Have you played WoW? the abominations there are the same. created and sewn from dead bodies. That thing we killed WAS NOT Orsino.

Meredith, no matter how crazy, was still a person and she was able to understand everything perfectly. She managed to forward all her insanity towards anti-mage hate which shows she died a person, not a creature. And I was talking the gruesome death, where she was in horrible pain. Orsino felt no pain. I was like scream bi***, scream.

[Willowhugger]

Yeah, it's been said that the only reason why Orsino turned in the mage ending it's because the devs wanted another boss, in other words because the game demanded he turned he cracked, similar to how Meredith turned on Hawke even though you supported templars all way through the game.

Kirkwall circle was indeed infected with bloodmages, but I get the feeling that more because of Meredith's and Alrik's actions that made them bloodmages rather then because of Orsino's incompetents after all at start of act 3 we basically see that he doesn't hold much power over the circle and he can't do much thanks to Meredith, he could report what ever blood mages he knows about, but Meredith would just see that as the entire circle being bloodmages rather then a few of them.

 

Orsino was a blood mage and probably became First Enchanter because of his study of the forbidden arts (and that's why he's FE at such a young age). However, the Third Act was obviously rushed and the developers have mentioned they would have done a lot of things differently if they'd had time. I'm sure if the game was re-done, they'd have had Meredith be the Final Boss if you were Mage Side and Orsino as the Final Boss if you were Templar.

[TTTX]

Orsino was a blood mage and probably became First Enchanter because of his study of the forbidden arts (and that's why he's FE at such a young age). However, the Third Act was obviously rushed and the developers have mentioned they would have done a lot of things differently if they'd had time. I'm sure if the game was re-done, they'd have had Meredith be the Final Boss if you were Mage Side and Orsino as the Final Boss if you were Templar.

Actually he wasn't a bloodmage before Meredith forced him into a corner, if you side with the Templars he will tell you that he had never done bloodmagic before, studying the theory of bloodmagic isn't illegal (at least not in every circle as we saw in DA:O they had books of the subject) after all Wardens is created with bloodmagic more or less the circle will need at least need to know theory bloodmagic since they are the ones who usually help creating Grey Wardens as we saw in DA:O.

[Willowhugger]

Actually he wasn't a bloodmage before Meredith forced him into a corner, if you side with the Templars he will tell you that he had never done bloodmagic before, studying the theory of bloodmagic isn't illegal (at least not in every circle as we saw in DA:O they had books of the subject) after all Wardens is created with bloodmagic more or less the circle will need at least need to know theory bloodmagic since they are the ones who usually help creating Grey Wardens as we saw in DA:O.

 

If you believe a word he says regarding his involvement with a blood magic serial killer.

[MisterJB]

Actually he wasn't a bloodmage before Meredith forced him into a corner, if you side with the Templars he will tell you that he had never done bloodmagic before, studying the theory of bloodmagic isn't illegal (at least not in every circle as we saw in DA:O they had books of the subject) after all Wardens is created with bloodmagic more or less the circle will need at least need to know theory bloodmagic since they are the ones who usually help creating Grey Wardens as we saw in DA:O.

Right, so every blood mage we fight on The Last Straw just learned to summon and control demons in the time it took for Hawke to travel from Lowtown to the Gallows. They were not taught by the First Enchanter with a blood mage friend that managed to perform a complex blood magic ritual on the spot.

Coincidences, I tell you.

 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Right, so every blood mage we fight on The Last Straw just learned to summon and control demons in the time it took for Hawke to travel from Lowtown to the Gallows. They were not taught by the First Enchanter with a blood mage friend that managed to perform a complex blood magic ritual on the spot.

Coincidences, I tell you.

To be honest even in ferelden circle uldred could summon pride demon and even idiot like jowan learned blood magic himself says a lot how good job circles are doing when even circle mages don't have problems with blood magic.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Meredith's mind was taken over by an ancient magical artifact... considering what it did to Bartrand, I'm amazed she was even able to form complete sentences throughout Act 3.  Orsino on the other hand, simply cracked under the pressure... even when his forces were winning due to Hawke's aid, he folded.  He had no excuse for being so weak, and it was actually kind of pathetic how his life ended (although the Mage ending was much worse considering they were winning...).  Overall, he wasn't a very impressive character.  It's no wonder the Kirkwall Circle became corrupted under his leadership.

 

I think you underestimate the effect that corrosive effect that Kirkwall itself had on people's psychological stability. If you read "The Enigma of Kirkwall" (http://dragonage.wik...gma_of_Kirkwall), particularly this section - " The mages of Kirkwall have a more troubled history than those in other Circles. A greater percentage of them do not survive the Harrowing, and a greater percentage turn to blood magic—almost double that of Starkhaven or Ostwick. Is there a secret fraternity delving into the Tevinter secrets of this city?" Its pretty clear that Kirkwall was basically a Hellmouth (in the Buffy: The Vampire Slayer sense) due to the activities of the ancient Tevinter Magisters and the suffering of the slaves there. The presence of Xebenkeck, one of the Forbidden Ones, may also have had an effect.

 

As for Orsino, while I agree that he was a fairly ineffectual First Enchanter and he probably did crack under (intense and unrelenting) pressure, I think he was also a victim of game design over narrative logic; there needed to be a big boss battle at that point (irrespective of which side you chose) and Orsino happened to be the sacrificial lamb to the imperatives of game design, so I think its a bit unfair to judge him on that.

[Willowhugger]

A reminder--David Gaider said that it's wrong to assume Kirkwall had a gigantic collection of Blood Mages. He said, somehow, Hawke just stumbled over every single one in the city.

[Lulupab]

A reminder--David Gaider said that it's wrong to assume Kirkwall had a gigantic collection of Blood Mages. He said, somehow, Hawke just stumbled over every single one in the city.

That and enemies we fight outside of cutscenes generally don't exist. No Hawke didn't commit genocide at night, there were there for us to grind EXP. There is no mention of those encounters. Likely the blood mages that we fight are there to make the game challenging. What did you expect to fight?

Studying blood magic is legal, yet using it is illegal. In middle ages sodomy was crime and you couldn't draw naked pictures of the same sex, yet if you used the argument "I'm exploring god as man were made in his image" you'd be pardoned and encouraged to continue. Study of blood magic is needed to fight blood magic itself.

Right, so every blood mage we fight on The Last Straw just learned to summon and control demons in the time it took for Hawke to travel from Lowtown to the Gallows. They were not taught by the First Enchanter with a blood mage friend that managed to perform a complex blood magic ritual on the spot.
Coincidences, I tell you.

Refer to above, those blood mages learned as fast as Meredith who learned to animate statues and use magic as strong as any mage. Who taught her that? I highly doubt they teach Templars such things. As I said it seems study of blood magic is completely legal, knowing how to kill does not make one a murderer, using that knowledge does. Also as I said the enemies we fight outside of story are irrelevant. In the story Hawke simply goes to the gallows and possibly kills an abomination or two, NOT HORDES OF BLOOD MAGES AND DEMONS. You'd think they would mention such a thing.

[Willowhugger]

 

Refer to above, those blood mages learned as fast as Meredith who learned to animate statues and use magic as strong as any mage. Who taught her that? I highly doubt they teach Templars such things. As I said it seems study of blood magic is completely legal, knowing how to kill does not make one a murderer, using that knowledge does. Also as I said the enemies with fight outside of story are irrelevant. In the story Hawke simply goes to the gallows and possibly kills an abomination or two, NOT HORDES OF BLOOD MAGES AND DEMONS. You'd think they would mention such a thing.

 

To be fair, the Warden killed dozens of monsters the Codex say the Templars get mauled by the dozens by at the Circle Tower.

So I have no problem with Hawke killing lots and lots of Blood Mages.

I do think Varric was embellishing in the Trash Mobs, though.

"And then, suddenly, DOZENS of Carta crooks popped out to attack us!"

[X Equestris]

I think you underestimate the effect that corrosive effect that Kirkwall itself had on people's psychological stability. If you read "The Enigma of Kirkwall" (http://dragonage.wik...gma_of_Kirkwall), particularly this section - " The mages of Kirkwall have a more troubled history than those in other Circles. A greater percentage of them do not survive the Harrowing, and a greater percentage turn to blood magic—almost double that of Starkhaven or Ostwick. Is there a secret fraternity delving into the Tevinter secrets of this city?" Its pretty clear that Kirkwall was basically a Hellmouth (in the Buffy: The Vampire Slayer sense) due to the activities of the ancient Tevinter Magisters and the suffering of the slaves there. The presence of Xebenkeck, one of the Forbidden Ones, may also have had an effect.
 
As for Orsino, while I agree that he was a fairly ineffectual First Enchanter and he probably did crack under (intense and unrelenting) pressure, I think he was also a victim of game design over narrative logic; there needed to be a big boss battle at that point (irrespective of which side you chose) and Orsino happened to be the sacrificial lamb to the imperatives of game design, so I think its a bit unfair to judge him on that.

And don't forget the presence of Corypheus, which is also speculated to be responsible for the madness of Kirkwall.

Personally, I subscribe to the theory that Kirkwall, specifically the Bone Pit, was where the ancient Magisters created their breach in the Veil to reach the Golden City. If that is true, it's no wonder Kirkwall has so many problems.

[TTTX]

If you believe a word he says regarding his involvement with a blood magic serial killer.

He doesn't have much reason to lie at that point, his back is against the wall and he is going to die no matter what he says he knows he is going to die, what reason does he has to lie at that point?

 

 

Right, so every blood mage we fight on The Last Straw just learned to summon and control demons in the time it took for Hawke to travel from Lowtown to the Gallows. They were not taught by the First Enchanter with a blood mage friend that managed to perform a complex blood magic ritual on the spot.

Coincidences, I tell you.

Remember Varric is telling the story and he is known for you know over do it + there are a difference between gameplay and the actually story after all if that many demons had been summon it would have torn the veil in Kirkwall.

 

 

To be honest even in ferelden circle uldred could summon pride demon and even idiot like jowan learned blood magic himself says a lot how good job circles are doing when even circle mages don't have problems with blood magic.

Uldred didn't summon a pride demon, he became one, which isn't surprising considering he had an ego. Also Jowan practiced what he had learned from those books in the tower it was the reason why he was seen by the templars + no system is perfect (If you ever think any system is perfect then you are pretty much an idiot) if there were we would all be living in paradise on Earth by now. 

 

 

I think you underestimate the effect that corrosive effect that Kirkwall itself had on people's psychological stability. If you read "The Enigma of Kirkwall" (http://dragonage.wik...gma_of_Kirkwall), particularly this section - " The mages of Kirkwall have a more troubled history than those in other Circles. A greater percentage of them do not survive the Harrowing, and a greater percentage turn to blood magic—almost double that of Starkhaven or Ostwick. Is there a secret fraternity delving into the Tevinter secrets of this city?" Its pretty clear that Kirkwall was basically a Hellmouth (in the Buffy: The Vampire Slayer sense) due to the activities of the ancient Tevinter Magisters and the suffering of the slaves there. The presence of Xebenkeck, one of the Forbidden Ones, may also have had an effect.

 

As for Orsino, while I agree that he was a fairly ineffectual First Enchanter and he probably did crack under (intense and unrelenting) pressure, I think he was also a victim of game design over narrative logic; there needed to be a big boss battle at that point (irrespective of which side you chose) and Orsino happened to be the sacrificial lamb to the imperatives of game design, so I think its a bit unfair to judge him on that.

Not to mention the Veil is thin.

 

 

And don't forget the presence of Corypheus, which is also speculated to be responsible for the madness of Kirkwall.

Personally, I subscribe to the theory that Kirkwall, specifically the Bone Pit, was where the ancient Magisters created their breach in the Veil to reach the Golden City. If that is true, it's no wonder Kirkwall has so many problems.

this too, further proof that should be a circle in Kirwall.

[KaiserShep]

To be fair, the Warden killed dozens of monsters the Codex say the Templars get mauled by the dozens by at the Circle Tower.

So I have no problem with Hawke killing lots and lots of Blood Mages.

I do think Varric was embellishing in the Trash Mobs, though.

"And then, suddenly, DOZENS of Carta crooks popped out to attack us!"

I don't really buy into the Varric embellishment argument. As far as I can tell, the game is quite clear on where the actual embellishment is. Besides, Varric is not likely going to give every single detail to Cassandra, only the gist of it.