1391 réponses à ce sujet

[Kieran G.]

Templars also hunt mages that has been confirmed many times over as for Seekers we have one movie where some mages + a couple of others enemies even a templar conspiring to take down the Divine makes sense why the Seekers are involved it's part their objective to keep the Chantry safe which is one of their duties which is something Lambert betrayed at the end of Asunder.

 

That's the loyalists (I think that's what they are called) group of the mages they accept any punishment put on them by the Chantry there always people like that in any group people there are like 5 major groups in among mages if I remember correctly. Any chance is better then none sooner or later you have to take a stand, it's something I learned a log time ago. Divine let them go because Lambert had done something against what his boss had him ordered to, He meant well I know but as Rhys said he was a man grasping at straws while the circle crumbled around him and Rhys was indeed right.

 

There is a difference between holding vote and what the end result is, unfortunately we never got to know the results of the first vote because of Lambert, I'm pretty sure the mages would voted for staying in with the Chantry, but things changed after Wynne died whether you like her or not she was pro circle which is more then what you can say for mages like Fiona, It was pretty weak evidence Lambert had on Rhys he only found the murder weapon in his room you have to be pretty stupid if you hid the murder weapon in our own room.

 

You have said it yourself you are no expert on the Orlesian and Ferelden war. Ferelden according to lore and Logain they were sometimes fighting fully armed Orlesians when they had no armor or weapons so no Orlias didn't give them the Victory they worked long and hard and basically kicked Orlais ass not bad for a bunch of farmers eventually Orlais thought it was far to expensive to keep losing to them.

I think your argument is valid, i don't agree with it entirely but to his, his own.

 

More to what i'm saying is, we should really not use dawn of the seeker as a argument point, since they're so many errors in that film, biggest is the time period error.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Templars also hunt mages that has been confirmed many times over as for Seekers we have one movie where some mages + a couple of others enemies even a templar conspiring to take down the Divine makes sense why the Seekers are involved it's part their objective to keep the Chantry safe which is one of their duties which is something Lambert betrayed at the end of Asunder.

 

That's the loyalists (I think that's what they are called) group of the mages they accept any punishment put on them by the Chantry there always people like that in any group people there are like 5 major groups in among mages if I remember correctly. Any chance is better then none sooner or later you have to take a stand, it's something I learned a log time ago. Divine let them go because Lambert had done something against what his boss had him ordered to, He meant well I know but as Rhys said he was a man grasping at straws while the circle crumbled around him and Rhys was indeed right.

 

There is a difference between holding vote and what the end result is, unfortunately we never got to know the results of the first vote because of Lambert, I'm pretty sure the mages would voted for staying in with the Chantry, but things changed after Wynne died whether you like her or not she was pro circle which is more then what you can say for mages like Fiona, It was pretty weak evidence Lambert had on Rhys he only found the murder weapon in his room you have to be pretty stupid if you hid the murder weapon in our own room.

 

You have said it yourself you are no expert on the Orlesian and Ferelden war. Ferelden according to lore and Logain they were sometimes fighting fully armed Orlesians when they had no armor or weapons so no Orlias didn't give them the Victory they worked long and hard and basically kicked Orlais ass not bad for a bunch of farmers eventually Orlais thought it was far to expensive to keep losing to them.

And again yet seekers left to hunt down mages not to hunt down templars proving that they aren't nothing more than an elite templars.

 

Loyalist and 2 rest fraternites voted to return despite ot punishment .Divine was as i said an idiot i explained why and confirmed that she caused mage templar war and as well mages first did something they shouldn't as meeting was about separation from the chantry topic was completly different.

 

As i said above that wasn't topic of that meeting it was enforced not to mention that they protected suspected serial killer. If police will find murder weapon in your room they will arrest you... so no pretty much it isn't weak evidence...

 

Because im not as i said but i read something about rebelion since then so now i know reason why ferelden won simple because orlais decided it isn't worth it.. Not to mention that there weren't only farmer and rebellion was long as hell if orlais didn't left ferelden pretty much they would crush rebells... but then as they said it would cost more than it is worth it now in that situation as i said it is unlikely. 

[raging_monkey]

I think your argument is valid, i don't agree with it entirely but to his, his own. More to what i'm saying is, we should really not use dawn of the seeker as a argument point, since they're so many errors in that film, biggest is the time period error.

its good watch yes the time does make cass's age hard to predict. Ironically aside from asunder we have little to information on seekers aside from them being internal affairs.

[dragonflight288]

I think your argument is valid, i don't agree with it entirely but to his, his own.

 

More to what i'm saying is, we should really not use dawn of the seeker as a argument point, since they're so many errors in that film, biggest is the time period error.

 

The Seeker Codex pretty much makes it clear that the Seekers are the Internal Affairs of the Chantry, and their job is to root out corruption within, including the templars. Their job is not to watch mages. 

 

I agree that TTTX's argument is valid, and not only that, but is based entirely on the fact that Lambert was ignoring doing his own job, even betrayed everything his particular order stood for, and I mean the Seekers since he is not a templar, based entirely his own justified paranoia and experiences. But as the Lord High Seeker, he went well beyond his bounds, acted outside of his authority, tried too hard to do a job that was not  his, and even betrayed the Divine and the Chantry as a whole. 

 

It is my belief that although Lambert had his reasons, he was entirely in the wrong.

[Darkly Tranquil]

It is my belief that although Lambert had his reasons, he was entirely in the wrong.

He's like Loghain in that he thought he was doing the right thing in order to protect what he valued and thought he needed to protect, but his paranoia distorted his perceptions and led him to the wrong conclusions, causing him to act in a way that ultimately undermined his entire cause. It's another one of those "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" situations.

[raging_monkey]

And it is their job to root out corruption in the Chantry as a whole, including the templars. But when they don't enforce the rules on templars, when they start favoring templars over mages, when they turn a blind eye, they become part of the problem and are part of the corruption they are supposed to root out.  A Seeker who doesn't enforce the rules on the templars is not a Seeker doing his job. A Seeker also does not watch over mages as a high priority as that is not their job.

if lambert knew this at first went about his job we wouldnt be in this mess

[TTTX]

I think your argument is valid, i don't agree with it entirely but to his, his own.

 

More to what i'm saying is, we should really not use dawn of the seeker as a argument point, since they're so many errors in that film, biggest is the time period error.

Well thank you.

 

It's hardly the worst though, one ME novels had something over a 100 lore problems some of them very serious.

 

 

And again yet seekers left to hunt down mages not to hunt down templars proving that they aren't nothing more than an elite templars.

 

Loyalist and 2 rest fraternites voted to return despite ot punishment .Divine was as i said an idiot i explained why and confirmed that she caused mage templar war and as well mages first did something they shouldn't as meeting was about separation from the chantry topic was completly different.

 

As i said above that wasn't topic of that meeting it was enforced not to mention that they protected suspected serial killer. If police will find murder weapon in your room they will arrest you... so no pretty much it isn't weak evidence...

 

Because im not as i said but i read something about rebelion since then so now i know reason why ferelden won simple because orlais decided it isn't worth it.. Not to mention that there weren't only farmer and rebellion was long as hell if orlais didn't left ferelden pretty much they would crush rebells... but then as they said it would cost more than it is worth it now in that situation as i said it is unlikely. 

*sighs* I suggest you read the information again, the Seekers take care of corruption in the Chantry, that include the Templars.

 

I'm not going answer the Ashunder anymore, so we agree to disagree on that.

 

Of course Orlais gave up, the Fereldens were kicking their asses hell they even took on the best troops Orlais had to offer and killed them along with their commander.

[TheKomandorShepard]

*sighs* I suggest you read the information again, the Seekers take care of corruption in the Chantry, that include the Templars.

 

I'm not going answer the Ashunder anymore, so we agree to disagree on that.

 

Of course Orlais gave up, the Fereldens were kicking their asses hell they even took on the best troops Orlais had to offer and killed them along with their commander.

And yet they went with templars and left chantry to hunt down mages what im saying about well since beggining the beginning of that conversation.

 

Well it is your choice then.

 

Not rly orlais wouldn't have problem with crushing ferelden rebellion if they wanted crush them problem was in that ferelden wasn't worth resources that would be required for that as for orlais it was only almost worthless so well if orlais decided otherwise well let's say there wouldn't be ferelden but im ok with that i prefer ferelden over orlais not to mention that ferelden had outside help from others not just ferelden.

[raging_monkey]

And yet they went with templars and left chantry to hunt down mages what im saying about well since beggining the beginning of that conversation. Well it is your choice then. Not rly orlais wouldn't have problem with crushing ferelden rebellion if they wanted crush them problem was in that ferelden wasn't worth resources that would be required for that as for orlais it was only almost worthless so well if orlais decided otherwise well let's say there wouldn't be ferelden but im ok with that i prefer ferelden over orlais not to mention that ferelden had outside help from others not just ferelden.

you have a big view of what orlais can do even with chantry support my friend.

[Lulupab]

A full front of Orlais army was utterly crushed at river dane with leadership of Loghian. To this day Ferelden holds Orlesian lands, rightfully conquered. So no your precious Orlais was defeated.

[TheKomandorShepard]

you have a big view of what orlais can do even with chantry support my friend.

They are strongest country in thedas so well.

 

 

A full front of Orlais army was utterly crushed at river dane with leadership of Loghian. To this day Ferelden holds Orlesian lands, rightfully conquered. So no your precious Orlais was defeated.

very doubtful it was most likely smart part of orlais forces as it is said they don't see ferelden worthy effort if they truly wanted crush ferelden but as i said that would cost more in ther eyes then they are worth it they simple could.Ferelden is weakest country.As i like ferelden i have no doubt that orlais would crush it with some cost of course.

[TTTX]

And yet they went with templars and left chantry to hunt down mages what im saying about well since beggining the beginning of that conversation.

 

Well it is your choice then.

 

Not rly orlais wouldn't have problem with crushing ferelden rebellion if they wanted crush them problem was in that ferelden wasn't worth resources that would be required for that as for orlais it was only almost worthless so well if orlais decided otherwise well let's say there wouldn't be ferelden but im ok with that i prefer ferelden over orlais not to mention that ferelden had outside help from others not just ferelden.

Not your every day mages as we saw in the movie, the Seekers probably went with the Templars because those mages was acting really suspect like they were up to something big and as we see in the movie they were.

 

Going in circles helps non one.

 

They had 80 years to crush them and they couldn't hell by the end of the rebellion they started to lose their own land to Ferelden.

 

They are strongest country in thedas so well.

In terms of power they are mostly likely slightly weaker the Tevinter since they haven't tried to conquer them yet.

[raging_monkey]

And sadly thedas has 3 powers
Tevinter
Qunari
Orlais
(Not in any order)
Ala romance of the 3 kingdoms

[Lulupab]

Nevarra have started to rival Orlais in all matters by the time asunder happened.

Also Antiva was able to defeat a Qunari fleet for the first time in Thedas, possibly controlling the ocean and all its trade like Italian states, which was actually the motivation in creating the nation Antiva.

[raging_monkey]

So 5 powers, yes. Point is orlais isnt as powerful as most assume which. Goes with the chantry

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not your every day mages as we saw in the movie, the Seekers probably went with the Templars because those mages was acting really suspect like they were up to something big and as we see in the movie they were.

 

Going in circles helps non one.

 

They had 80 years to crush them and they couldn't hell by the end of the rebellion they started to lose their own land to Ferelden.

 

In terms of power they are mostly likely slightly weaker the Tevinter since they haven't tried to conquer them yet.

Wait first you don't want use dots then now you want damn!

No they went with templars because mages escaped from circles and decided to hunt them down what is what templars do and not saying just about single chase after mage.

 

Yep but as i said ferelden had help before they were not making much progress.

 

They are rather stronger as text in dai says that orlais is strongest not one of the strongest before i tought that tev is strongest as well.

 

 

Nevarra have started to rival Orlais in all matters by the time asunder happened.

Also Antiva was able to defeat a Qunari fleet for the first time in Thedas, possibly controlling the ocean and all its trade like Italian states, which was actually the motivation in creating the nation Antiva.

i don't think that nevarra is on orlais level but still rather strong and would give orlais hard time of course if their crisis will be solved in dai.

[TTTX]

Wait first you don't want use dots then now you want damn!

No they went with templars because mages escaped from circles and decided to hunt them down what is what templars do and not saying just about single chase after mage.

 

Yep but as i said ferelden had help before they were not making much progress.

 

They are rather stronger as text in dai says that orlais is strongest not one of the strongest before i tought that tev is strongest as well.

*sighs* you aren't going change your mind even when evidence is right in your face, so I'leave they whole Seeker thing.

 

You are talking about those few mages from Orlais that help Maric and those from the Legion of the Dead? It was Rebel Queen, Maric and Loghain who turned the rebel into a success, hell it was Orlais who had support of mages, the chantry. Ferelden got mostly help from their own even the legion of the dead also live in Ferelden just underground. Never the less Ferelden drove out Orlais mostly on their own.

 

It's depends on who wrote the text, it could be propaganda.

[raging_monkey]

*sighs* you aren't going change your mind even when evidence is right in your face, so I'leave they whole Seeker thing. You are talking about those few mages from Orlais that help Maric and those from the Legion of the Dead? It was Rebel Queen, Maric and Loghain who turned the rebel into a success, hell it was Orlais who had support of mages, the chantry. Ferelden got mostly help from their own even the legion of the dead also live in Ferelden just underground. Never the less Ferelden drove out Orlais mostly on their own. It's depends on who wrote the text, it could be propaganda.

technically the leigon werent feraldan more like a merc group. Since orzammar dwells in feraldan but hold sovereignty(minor detail)

[TheKomandorShepard]

*sighs* you aren't going change your mind even when evidence is right in your face, so I'leave they whole Seeker thing.

 

You are talking about those few mages from Orlais that help Maric and those from the Legion of the Dead? It was Rebel Queen, Maric and Loghain who turned the rebel into a success, hell it was Orlais who had support of mages, the chantry. Ferelden got mostly help from their own even the legion of the dead also live in Ferelden just underground. Never the less Ferelden drove out Orlais mostly on their own.

 

It's depends on who wrote the text, it could be propaganda.

You didn't gave me evidence show then 1 case when seekers intervened when templars were abusing their powers over mages?

 

You mean ferelden had legion , some mages and elves plus ferelden forces from what i renember chantry forces weren't involved with this conflict.

 

Well bioware but seriously it was text for player describing orlais here

[Master Warder Z_]

The youth centre where I volunteer does good work, and we manage not to slaughter people enmasse.

 

Does that youth center house people who can become possessed or fling lightning from their fingertips?

 

If not i really wouldn't compare it to the circle.

[dragonflight288]

You didn't gave me evidence show then 1 case when seekers intervened when templars were abusing their powers over mages?

 

Because the Seekers weren't doing their job and is part of the problem, we are using their inaction as proof of their own corruption and being part of the problem. The Seeker of Truth Codex outright says that is their job is to root out corruption in the Chantry, and the templars, and that they only rarely hunt mages, and that's when the templars aren't up to the task. 

 

The fact that you are rejecting given lore in favor of inaction in the games and books does nothing to prove your point. It only proves that under Lambert, they were part of the problem. 

[raging_monkey]

True butthe mages didnt help issues either(even if rhys told them about cole their would no garentee that it wouldnt hurt)

[MisterJB]

When, precisely, weren't the Seekers doing their jobs?

[raging_monkey]

They were doing it just situation escalated to chaos. But specifcally when the seekers decieded to do templars job instead of watch both groups.

[dragonflight288]

They were doing it just situation escalated to chaos. But specifcally when the seekers decieded to do templars job instead of watch both groups.

 

Or more accurately, Lord Seeker Lambert took the job of a Knight-Vigilant for himself and didn't investigate templars in the White Spire because he was too busy trying to be a templar under those circumstances, and wasn't even trying to be a Seeker and looking for corruption among the templars. 

 

And before anyone says that the templar in charge had been dismissed, let me add that I think it was highly inappropriate for Lambert to personally assume that position since he's the leader of the Seekers. He could've easily appointed a lieutenant with similar views as him, and then he should have gone straight to the task of weeding out the templars and looking for a replacement. That would've been far more appropriate for a person of his position than what he actually did.