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[raging_monkey]

When people who suffer trauma(generalizing) the have a habit of taking control so they or others never suffer. Not saying he was right but understandable. Just like TKS hate mages cause of a real danger or others that believe mages are a subjugated ethnic group that deserve to have the same rights as non-magi

[TTTX]

technically the leigon werent feraldan more like a merc group. Since orzammar dwells in feraldan but hold sovereignty(minor detail)

Ahh yes details. XD

 

 

You didn't gave me evidence show then 1 case when seekers intervened when templars were abusing their powers over mages?

 

You mean ferelden had legion , some mages and elves plus ferelden forces from what i renember chantry forces weren't involved with this conflict.

 

Well bioware but seriously it was text for player describing orlais here

It says so right in the lore.

 

the majority were still Ferelden. Orlais had their own circle helping them and some of their best forces in Ferelden and they still lost. It took time but Ferelden still came up on top in the end.

 

If that's true, I wonder why they have taken Tevinter on since the Chantry would be more then happy to get ride of them also it say human land which means the Qun is stronger. After all they fought Thedas to a standstill

 

Or more accurately, Lord Seeker Lambert took the job of a Knight-Vigilant for himself and didn't investigate templars in the White Spire because he was too busy trying to be a templar under those circumstances, and wasn't even trying to be a Seeker and looking for corruption among the templars. 

 

And before anyone says that the templar in charge had been dismissed, let me add that I think it was highly inappropriate for Lambert to personally assume that position since he's the leader of the Seekers. He could've easily appointed a lieutenant with similar views as him, and then he should have gone straight to the task of weeding out the templars and looking for a replacement. That would've been far more appropriate for a person of his position than what he actually did. 

pretty much there is what Meredith did in Kirkwall technically the Seeker should have done something about that, but didn't for some reason.

.

[raging_monkey]

Kirkwall was a massive mess from a inuniverse view grand cleric elthnia was the one keeping the mad dogs under control(say this loosely) only when lelianna got involved did they get concerned with exalted marches. Mind you lelianna is a lefthand of the divine more like a consultant in these matter not a actual seeker

[Kieran G.]

Kirkwall was a massive mess from a inuniverse view grand cleric elthnia was the one keeping the mad dogs under control(say this loosely) only when lelianna got involved did they get concerned with exalted marches. Mind you lelianna is a lefthand of the divine more like a consultant in these matter not a actual seeker

And Elthnia didn't even think she should get involved because she was just a grand Cleric, even though she was one of the most powerful people in Kirkwall.

[raging_monkey]

At times its better to stay nuetral. Kirkwall as a "guy smoking near a gas pump" even compromises couldve set it off. Sadly while da2 spans 10 years there are missing years of events that couldve happened off screen and may be lacking some minor detail or another.

[Shadow Quickpaw]

Plus there's the fact that the whole City of Kirkwall (being a Tevinter slave pen, essentially) was a massive blood sygil. Housing mages there and not letting them leave is just ASKING for trouble, and then Meradith's idol happened. Recipe for disaster if ever I saw it, and it wasn't really anyone in particular's fault.

 

Except Anders. "There IS no compromise!" Sure... We've never seen what "compromise" between Mage and Templar would look like. THAT would be a sight to see! (And no, Thrask's merry band doesn't count. Bloody Grace...)

[Lulupab]

Plus there's the fact that the whole City of Kirkwall (being a Tevinter slave pen, essentially) was a massive blood sygil. Housing mages there and not letting them leave is just ASKING for trouble, and then Meradith's idol happened. Recipe for disaster if ever I saw it, and it wasn't really anyone in particular's fault.

Except Anders. "There IS no compromise!" Sure... We've never seen what "compromise" between Mage and Templar would look like. THAT would be a sight to see! (And no, Thrask's merry band doesn't count. Bloody Grace...)

Apparently the gallows was very horrifying scene to see and the city did nothing to change it since the slaver capital days.

[raging_monkey]

Its was doing good til they did blood magic(no problems with necromancy wben in nevarra or for pure study). And you forgot having coryphus nearby

[TTTX]

Its was doing good til they did blood magic(no problems with necromancy wben in nevarra or for pure study). And you forgot having coryphus nearby

Not mention demons.

[Shadow Quickpaw]

YOU try telling someone "Your most powerful tool for self-defense is FORBIDDEN" and see how far it gets you.  Would the mages have turned to blood magic if they hadn't been pressured and abused by the Templars? Maybe, maybe not. The abuse certainly made it far worse than it otherwise have been, however. Pretty sure everyone can agree on that, at the very least.

[raging_monkey]

Yeah kirkwall.....
OT: i think this thread has been beaten to dust. Im out of rebuttles and disscussion points

[TTTX]

I hope we get to see Justina in the opening of DA:I, before she get blown to bits along with the rest of the summit.

[raging_monkey]

YOU try telling someone "Your most powerful tool for self-defense is FORBIDDEN" and see how far it gets you.  Would the mages have turned to blood magic if they hadn't been pressured and abused by the Templars? Maybe, maybe not. The abuse certainly made it far worse than it otherwise have been, however. Pretty sure everyone can agree on that, at the very least.

yes the templar order does have alot to answer for. Alledged sexual assault (karass and alan, alrik and his.... "solution") and death squads all legally and morally unjust. But. Just be cause you have acess to your arguably best skillset doesnt mean you are the just party. Ex i have firearm not registered but i use it for self defense. I still broke a law for a unregistered weapon even if i never harmed anyone.

[TheKomandorShepard]

When people who suffer trauma(generalizing) the have a habit of taking control so they or others never suffer. Not saying he was right but understandable. Just like TKS hate mages cause of a real danger or others that believe mages are a subjugated ethnic group that deserve to have the same rights as non-magi

Damn why peoples think if someone want put other down it always have to be hate. I explained but it was some time ago so i will repeat myself i don't hate mages and don't hate red templars they are dangerous obstacles that need to be put down so i could stabilize world and progress my goals.

 

 

Ahh yes details. XD

 

 

It says so right in the lore.

 

the majority were still Ferelden. Orlais had their own circle helping them and some of their best forces in Ferelden and they still lost. It took time but Ferelden still came up on top in the end.

 

If that's true, I wonder why they have taken Tevinter on since the Chantry would be more then happy to get ride of them also it say human land which means the Qun is stronger. After all they fought Thedas to a standstill

.

Where in codex or other general description of organization?As far we we didn't saw single thing they did all as far they didn were doing templar job hunting mages as i said and even broke from chantry along with templars to hund down mages.

 

forces actually were pretty much balanced as i said ferelden had outside units and not so small i read wiki now (but well as wiki isn't full reliable source if it is not true you can tell me) and found casualties of that but is seems that ferelden had regiment legion of the dead what is quite a lot not mention help from elves.

 

Probably because if they attacked it they would lost many forces (and by that they would had problems with neighbors) and still there is problem with minrathous so even if they kicked their backs like many did they wouldn't pass through the defense of that city. Well of course that qunari are most powerful but they didn't managed defeat everyone united.

[TTTX]

Where in codex or other general description of organization?As far we we didn't saw single thing they did all as far they didn were doing templar job hunting mages as i said and even broke from chantry along with templars to hund down mages.

 

forces actually were pretty much balanced as i said ferelden had outside units and not so small i read wiki now (but well as wiki isn't full reliable source if it is not true you can tell me) and found casualties of that but is seems that ferelden had regiment legion of the dead what is quite a lot not mention help from elves.

 

Probably because if they attacked it they would lost many forces (and by that they would had problems with neighbors) and still there is problem with minrathous so even if they kicked their backs like many did they wouldn't pass through the defense of that city. Well of course that qunari are most powerful but they didn't managed defeat everyone united.

Straight from the Codex.

 

 they serve the Divine and they are feared. When a Seeker steps from the shadows, templars run for cover—because why would he come unless the templars somehow failed in their duties? Seekers are extremely effective investigating abuses within the Circle and hunting particularly evasive apostates.

 

Ferelden still and the majority of their forces where their own and Elves also lives in Ferelden that makes them citizens of Ferelden, you don't think Orlais had help a good number of the Ferelden nobility helped Orlais.

 

Probably, personally I think Orlais would lose to Tevinter because their power are pretty equal so to speak. Just stating the obvious.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Straight from the Codex.

 

 they serve the Divine and they are feared. When a Seeker steps from the shadows, templars run for cover—because why would he come unless the templars somehow failed in their duties? Seekers are extremely effective investigating abuses within the Circle and hunting particularly evasive apostates.

 

Ferelden still and the majority of their forces where their own and Elves also lives in Ferelden that makes them citizens of Ferelden, you don't think Orlais had help a good number of the Ferelden nobility helped Orlais.

 

Probably, personally I think Orlais would lose to Tevinter because their power are pretty equal so to speak. Just stating the obvious.

 

So codex entry then that is writen by peoples in-universe and from what i remember writer wasn't sure about them.

 

Yep but as i said rebells had help from outside elves (they are still unusual help) and legion (they slained half of chevaliers forces so well they had rather strong help).I rather doubt they would stay alive without legion that was helping them and a lot of luck like for example folks turning on loyalists.

 

As i said i don't think that tev would be win orlais would "win" (at heavy cost) but still there would be problem with ther main city. 

[TTTX]

So codex entry then that is writen by peoples in-universe and from what i remember writer wasn't sure about them.

 

Yep but as i said rebells had help from outside elves (they are still unusual help) and legion (they slained half of chevaliers forces so well they had rather strong help).I rather doubt they would stay alive without legion that was helping them and a lot of luck like for example folks turning on loyalists.

 

As i said i don't think that tev would be win orlais would "win" (at heavy cost) but still there would be problem with ther main city. 

another part of the codex which is just before the other example I showed.

 

but I can say the following things with certainty

 

The legion had to be convinced first though, that's one is on the Ferelden.

 

Maybe. We can only speculate.

[TheKomandorShepard]

another part of the codex which is just before the other example I showed.

 

but I can say the following things with certainty

 

The legion had to be convinced first though, that's one is on the Ferelden.

 

Maybe. We can only speculate.

?

 

Yep but still they had them on their said was main reason why ferelden had even chances.

 

True.

[TTTX]

?

 

Yep but still they had them on their said was main reason why ferelden had even chances.

 

True.

Let me show you.

 

I know little of them myself, but I can say the following things with certainty: they serve the Divine and they are feared. When a Seeker steps from the shadows, templars run for cover—because why would he come unless the templars somehow failed in their duties? Seekers are extremely effective investigating abuses within the Circle and hunting particularly evasive apostates.

 

One of them, the rebellion wouldn't even become anything if it wasn't for the Rebel Queen, later Maric and Loghain those were the ones who hold the rebellion together and made it a reality when it is all said and done. 

[Willowhugger]

I think Blood Magic, Abominations, and corrupt mages would still be a problem if the Templars weren't oppressing mages.

I think recent events made these things WORSE, though.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Let me show you.

 

I know little of them myself, but I can say the following things with certainty: they serve the Divine and they are feared. When a Seeker steps from the shadows, templars run for cover—because why would he come unless the templars somehow failed in their duties? Seekers are extremely effective investigating abuses within the Circle and hunting particularly evasive apostates.

 

One of them, the rebellion wouldn't even become anything if it wasn't for the Rebel Queen, later Maric and Loghain those were the ones who hold the rebellion together and made it a reality when it is all said and done. 

Well i can already crush that codex that tries paint them as mysterious figures that templars fear in dots and asunder that wasn't truth and part they are extremly effective i would argue as we saw. 

 

Well true but as i said still without legions they wouldn't win same for elves that were very effective and brought a lot for rebellion.

[MisterJB]

Or more accurately, Lord Seeker Lambert took the job of a Knight-Vigilant for himself and didn't investigate templars in the White Spire because he was too busy trying to be a templar under those circumstances, and wasn't even trying to be a Seeker and looking for corruption among the templars. 

 

And before anyone says that the templar in charge had been dismissed, let me add that I think it was highly inappropriate for Lambert to personally assume that position since he's the leader of the Seekers. He could've easily appointed a lieutenant with similar views as him, and then he should have gone straight to the task of weeding out the templars and looking for a replacement. That would've been far more appropriate for a person of his position than what he actually did. 

 

As the above quote indicates, the job of the Seekers is to step in when the Templars have failed in their duties. Sometimes that might mean destroying a blood mage, dragon worshipping cult; others times it will mean preventing a Knight Commander from murdering the Divine.

In Asunder, Lambert stepped in when the Templars in the White Spire failed to discover who was murdering the mages; which he did, BTW, Lambert found the murderer; and when it became clear the Grand Enchanter was formeting rebellion amidst the mages, then it became his duty to prevent the toppling of the Circle and Chantry.

 

You can argue that he made some tactical mistakes and I won't disagree but Lambert never did anything more than his duty.
 

[TTTX]

Well i can already crush that codex that tries paint them as mysterious figures that templars fear in dots and asunder that wasn't truth and part they are extremly effective i would argue as we saw. 

 

Well true but as i said still without legions they wouldn't win same for elves that were very effective and brought a lot for rebellion.

Well the codex was written long before dots and Asunder somethings have probably changed since then, but since Seekers don't hunt mages all the time we can pretty much assume it not their main mission. It's been stated and seen so many times in the DA games that it is the Templars that mostly take care of mages, not the Seekers. Which means they are not Templars.

 

We'll never know for sure.

[Lulupab]

I think Blood Magic, Abominations, and corrupt mages would still be a problem if the Templars weren't oppressing mages.

I think recent events made these things WORSE, though.

Amusingly there is no record of rampaging blood mages or abomination in all Tevinter history. I'm not saying its a fact but its something to consider.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well the codex was written long before dots and Asunder somethings have probably changed since then, but since Seekers don't hunt mages all the time we can pretty much assume it not their main mission. It's been stated and seen so many times in the DA games that it is the Templars that mostly take care of mages, not the Seekers. Which means they are not Templars.

 

We'll never know for sure.

They are templars but as i said elite splinter and perhaps they were something different long time before but now as i said just an elite templars with extera job and hunting smarter mages that normal templars mages can't handle.