128 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

That would create a disadvantage for people who are playing with a controller and thus the "console" UI compared to those who are using keyboard and mouse, and I assume that they won't split the PC community according to interfce.  Though they might decide that it's not a huge issue, because people are choosing to use controller after all.

I think they might have reasoned as you suggested in the last part on your post. We do know that the UI is different on PC based on what you use
As I said though, it's better to be wary and consider the possibility pf the same limitation on PC regardless of how you play.

[The Elder King]

Anyway in MP you can use only four talents, not eight.

[Wulfram]

Anyway in MP you can use only four talents, not eight.

 

Interesting.

 

Makes it seem less like that change is motivated by MP.  But it also highlights the differences between the two modes.

[AshenEndymion]

Anyway in MP you can use only four talents, not eight.

 

No.  In MP, you use up to eight talents.  The MP gameplay trailer shows the four talents with the left trigger to switch to the other four.  Just like SP.

[aaarcher86]

No.  In MP, you use up to eight talents.  The MP gameplay trailer shows the four talents with the left trigger to switch to the other four.  Just like SP.

 

The IGN article confirms only 4 talents can be used in MP, unlike the 8 in SP. 

 

 

   Yes, and now if you don't have the ability you need set on your ability map, your fucked. And people think mp doesn't affect SP? Lol

 

You might have a point if MP wasn't restricted to 4 talents.  They could have kept things the exact same radial menu wise and still restricted the talents in MP if that's what they wanted to do.

[The Elder King]

No.  In MP, you use up to eight talents.  The MP gameplay trailer shows the four talents with the left trigger to switch to the other four.  Just like SP.

I know that, but both IGN and GI said that there are only four slots. I'll tweet Mike about it for clarification.

[AshenEndymion]

The IGN article confirms only 4 talents can be used in MP, unlike the 8 in SP. 

 

There may be only four usable talents per character in MP, but the UI shown in the trailer shows that the player still has the eight slot configuration.

[Deflagratio]

That would create a disadvantage for people who are playing with a controller and thus the "console" UI compared to those who are using keyboard and mouse, and I assume that they won't split the PC community according to interfce.  Though they might decide that it's not a huge issue, because people are choosing to use controller after all.

 

 

I don't think it's that big of a deal to limit it (slottable abilities) in the Multiplayer alone based on the "Console" (AKA Controller) UI... But it is a Co-Op game so the kind of competitive advantages that would really push leveling the playing field like that aren't really a factor.

 

What I think is that the DAMP experience looks like it is designed specifically as a controller oriented thing, while the DASP experience looks like it'll work best (especially at high difficulty) on KB-M.

[The Elder King]

There may be only four usable talents per character in MP, but the UI shown in the trailer shows that the player still has the eight slot configuration.

That's why I've tweeted Mike for clarification.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Thanks. That 4 slot thing makes me wonder if the two modes don't share a user interface.

Because they shouldn't. An optimal UI for a pauseless MP is very different from a good SP UI. I don't want to have to play using a UI that was streamlined to accommodate a completely different game.

[The Elder King]

Thanks. That 4 slot thing makes me wonder if the two modes don't share a user interface.
Because they shouldn't. An optimal UI for a pauseless MP is very different from a good SP UI. I don't want to have to play using a UI that was streamlined to accommodate a completely different game.

The console interface is the same. They only added a LB button to the left of the Circle with the talents for the use of health potion.
Oh, and the health bar is similar to ME3, if I recall.

[Paul E Dangerously]

As I've said elsewhere, the eight-slot limit just murders situational characters. How many people had abilities in DAO or even DA2 that they didn't use all the time, but did often enough? Mana Clash, Paralyze, Crushing Prison, the big area elemental spells, and so on? Nope. Now you're chained to those eight, and that's it.

[AppealToReason]

2 weeks ago, 

 

"Limited abilities is such a great idea. It makes leveling so much more important! I have to be smart about what I buy and tactical about my encounters! Great job Biower!"

 

After yesterday,

 

"OMFG FU BIOWER I CAN'T BELIEVE U RUENED MY SP WITH MP. UR TEH WORST EVER!"

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

As I've said elsewhere, the eight-slot limit just murders situational characters. How many people had abilities in DAO or even DA2 that they didn't use all the time, but did often enough? Mana Clash, Paralyze, Crushing Prison, the big area elemental spells, and so on? Nope. Now you're chained to those eight, and that's it.

I thought that (at least in SP, where you can pause and muck about) you could map stuff to the eightslot during combat?  So, say you encounter a situation where you want to chuck out a Blizzard or someat despite not having it on the eightslot, you could pause and map it to the eightslot, activate it, target it, restart time, and have it go off, then pause and remap the more commonly used ability back to the eightslot.  That was the impression I got anyway - I agree if you can only use the eightslot without remaps during combat, even with pausing, it'll be a right pain.  

[Rawgrim]

I thought that (at least in SP, where you can pause and muck about) you could map stuff to the eightslot during combat?  So, say you encounter a situation where you want to chuck out a Blizzard or someat despite not having it on the eightslot, you could pause and map it to the eightslot, activate it, target it, restart time, and have it go off, then pause and remap the more commonly used ability back to the eightslot.  That was the impression I got anyway - I agree if you can only use the eightslot without remaps during combat, even with pausing, it'll be a right pain.  

 

Can't remap during combat.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Can't remap during combat.

 

Yeah, they were pretty sketchy about it. "In the field" looks like combat, but doesn't actually say "in combat".

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

Can't remap during combat.

Really?  That seems...dumb.  Could you find me the source on this?  

[AlanC9]

(If And of course in MP you're only controlling a single character, while in SP you control a party, which means that whereas in MP requiring extra actions on the part of the player -  maybe by actively dodging enemy attacks, or having a more involved "rotation" with quick cooldowns - may be good because it increases the involvement of the player, in SP those actions spread across all 4 party members may become tiresomely fiddly micromanagement. 

The annoying thing about this aspect is that, combined with aggro management, you're penalized for playing your own PC (unless that's the tank.). A couple of the DA2 boss fights were pretty egregious here. And I'm saying this as a player who really has come around to the idea of mostly playing one character.

OTOH, this aspect precedes MP.

[aaarcher86]

Really?  That seems...dumb.  Could you find me the source on this?  

 

They didn't say specifically that you couldn't remap during combat, but they did say you could select spells/talents from the radial menu during combat... so it's a fairly easy assumption.

[Sylvius the Mad]

2 weeks ago,

"Limited abilities is such a great idea. It makes leveling so much more important! I have to be smart about what I buy and tactical about my encounters! Great job Biower!"

After yesterday,

"OMFG FU BIOWER I CAN'T BELIEVE U RUENED MY SP WITH MP. UR TEH WORST EVER!"

Who thought the limited access to abilities was a good thing? I certainly didn't.

I want more situational abilities. I want more utility amd non-combat abilities.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Can't remap during combat.

That would be an appalling limitation.

[Wulfram]

The annoying thing about this aspect is that, combined with aggro management, you're penalized for playing your own PC (unless that's the tank.). A couple of the DA2 boss fights were pretty egregious here. And I'm saying this as a player who really has come around to the idea of mostly playing one character.

OTOH, this aspect precedes MP.

 

It also makes it a lot of hassle to take melee characters except the tank to those fight.

 

You're right that this precedes MP.  But MP seems liable to reinforce it.

 

To be honest, the actual impact of MP on the design is likely to be impossible for even Bioware to really know - it'll obviously influence their thinking, but there's no way to know what they'd have decided otherwise, short of travelling to an alternative universe where MP never happened and comparing.  So I guess it'll be fertile debate fodder until DA4 is released.

[CronoDragoon]

That would create a disadvantage for people who are playing with a controller and thus the "console" UI compared to those who are using keyboard and mouse, and I assume that they won't split the PC community according to interfce.  Though they might decide that it's not a huge issue, because people are choosing to use controller after all.

Yeah, some MMOs allow the use of controllers on PC, even though you are (theoretically) gimping yourself. But since it's a choice the dev is fine with it.

[In Exile]

I actually don't remember. I thought DA:O was 10 on M-KB (0-9 Keys) but I haven't played it in so long.

I just think with Stamina in play, there isn't a whole lot of reason to have an arbitrary restriction on the number of abilities socketed in at a given time. I guess DPS could skyrocket if you slot in multiple high-damage and high-cooldown abilities. Abilities that would take much longer to recharge than how long it would take for their stamina cost to be replenished.

DAO had more than 8 hotkeys but the big difference was that you got a tool bar that could be up to 20+ slots long depending on your resolution.

[The Elder King]

About the 4/8 talent problem, I noticed in the trailer that when going to the talent tree, where you can map your powers, there's no LT button to switch between the two slots (for example, It's present in Dorian's tree in the combat trailer, and so far it seems the only way to map powers), while It's present in combat.
The situation is very confusing. Plus I re-watched the video and i never saw characters switching slots.