310 réponses à ce sujet

[Althix]

see^ by the book

[Monica21]

if to follow such logic - i should pity Duncan and let Alistair execute Loghain. Because this s how narrative of the game flows.

 

Okay.

[Xetykins]

i really wouldn't rely on that.
DAO is full of plot holes and logical flaws. Also the manner of which events unfolding before us is really one sided.
 
As example why Riordan is no using right of conscription on Loghain without asking Alistair or HoF for permission? He is a senior GW after all.
 
So i wouldn't call writters as solid argument.

I really cant say anything about riordan. He might be a more senior warden but he is an orlesian warden. In each places they have a warden commander which technically the hof in ferelden soil. And maybe the warden commanders are answerable only to that first warden in wiessupt? Seniority does not automatically make you the leader i think. I'm not all sure about this.

[Althix]

Seniority does not automatically make you the leader i think.

you are right, Alistair is an example.

 

but in case of Riordan he has a title of Senior GW.

[Xetykins]

you are right, Alistair is an example.
 
but in case of Riordan he has a title of Senior GW.

True, but your warden commander hof> senior warden

[dragonflight288]

The Hero of Ferelden was acting Warden Commander for a year, gathered the armies in honor of the treaties, and was seen as the voice for the Wardens at the Landsmeet. I think Riordan merely deferred to your command out of respect of your accomplishments. 

 

Well, that's not right. He pretty much did his own thing, going to Ostagar to look for records and scout the darkspawn was done on his own initiative. He didn't really follow our orders and acted more like an adviser. I don't think he wanted to take command as he was preparing to die in the battle. 

[Althix]

The Hero of Ferelden was acting Warden Commander for a year

xo? perhaps. he wasn't promoted to the rank of commander of the grey until awekening, which happened after the blight.

Duncan, until his death, was a warden commander of Ferelden.

 

not to mention - in order to become hof - you need to end the blight.

[Monica21]

xo? perhaps. he wasn't promoted to the rank of commander of the grey until awekening, which happened after the blight.

Duncan, until his death, was a warden commander of Ferelden.

 

not to mention - in order to become hof - you need to end the blight.

 

What dragonflight said:

 

The Hero of Ferelden was acting Warden Commander for a year, gathered the armies in honor of the treaties, and was seen as the voice for the Wardens at the Landsmeet. I think Riordan merely deferred to your command out of respect of your accomplishments. 

 

Well, that's not right. He pretty much did his own thing, going to Ostagar to look for records and scout the darkspawn was done on his own initiative. He didn't really follow our orders and acted more like an adviser. I don't think he wanted to take command as he was preparing to die in the battle. 

[Althix]

mmmmmhm. which brings us back to argument for ignorance

[X Equestris]

The Hero of Ferelden was acting Warden Commander for a year, gathered the armies in honor of the treaties, and was seen as the voice for the Wardens at the Landsmeet. I think Riordan merely deferred to your command out of respect of your accomplishments. 
 
Well, that's not right. He pretty much did his own thing, going to Ostagar to look for records and scout the darkspawn was done on his own initiative. He didn't really follow our orders and acted more like an adviser. I don't think he wanted to take command as he was preparing to die in the battle.

They may have done the work, but technically Alistair was the senior Fereldan Warden.

[dragonflight288]

They may have done the work, but technically Alistair was the senior Fereldan Warden.

 

Who instantly gave command to you. 

[TEWR]

I personally did not like Loghain for letting the king die off (including Duncan and many others) it just allowed the darkspawn to take full control of the battlefeild and just lost Ostagar totally. I had Alistar fight him then end him off which I was proud of him to get a bit of revenge for Cailan and Duncan. Loghain sold elfs off to the tevinter imperium like thats a moster and we don't know how many elf's were shipped off. I'm glad I ended his life.

 

Point of contention, Ostagar wasn't completely in the Darkspawn's control after the battle failed (and it was a failure before Loghain pulled his men out of there. There wasn't any hope). The Darkspawn seemed to have pulled back themselves, giving people like Wynne -- who stayed behind -- time to tend to the wounded.

[dragonflight288]

Point of contention, Ostagar wasn't completely in the Darkspawn's control after the battle failed (and it was a failure before Loghain pulled his men out of there. There wasn't any hope). The Darkspawn seemed to have pulled back themselves, giving people like Wynne -- who stayed behind -- time to tend to the wounded.

 

And they likely pulled back to gather up what wounded living they could from the battlefield itself, whether for meat or to make more broodmothers. 

[X Equestris]

Who instantly gave command to you.

That's true, but if there were any choice Alistair would try to assert the authority that he delegated to you, it would be about Loghain.

[TEWR]

That's true, but if there were any choice Alistair would try to assert the authority that he delegated to you, it would be about Loghain.

 

Not that that matters really, since you can't take command back once you've given it over to someone else entirely.

[X Equestris]

Not that that matters really, since you can't take command back once you've given it over to someone else entirely.

He didn't formally cede his command, he simply let you do the work.

[dragonflight288]

That's true, but if there were any choice Alistair would try to assert the authority that he delegated to you, it would be about Loghain.

 

He did try. 

 

He announced he would become King just to get Loghain executed, and he came across as utterly childish in front of the whole landsmeet. Thing is, by that point, pretty much everyone accepted the Hero of Ferelden as the leader, saw him/her as the voice of the Wardens, and Alistair throwing a hissy fit because he wasn't getting his way didn't improve how he was viewed by others there. 

 

The politics was against him at the time, because he was trying to assert his authority in a manner to claim authority for the wrong reasons, and by doing so would have ended up leaving the Order by becoming the King anyway. 

 

Pretty much when he announced he would be king to force Loghain's execution as an issue, he was also announcing he was quitting the Wardens to become the King.

[Elhanan]

If someone was going to pardon and free the one responsible for killing friends, co-workers, and family, perhaps a fit is needed to be thrown rather than simply accepting such an outcome. At the very least, making it known publically would give it food for thought.

[dragonflight288]

If someone was going to pardon and free the one responsible for killing friends, co-workers, and family, perhaps a fit is needed to be thrown rather than simply accepting such an outcome. At the very least, making it known publically would give it food for thought.

 

Joining the Wardens isn't exactly a pardon. It's a death sentence. Either you die in the joining or slowly from the taint, or in battle with the darkspawn, but it is a death sentence. All Wardens are doomed to a short life, constant connection to the darkspawn, and will end up like Laraius in Legacy. And all Wardens will ultimately end up in the same place. In the Deep Roads because the blighted blood calls to the darkspawn. It isn't an honor as Alistair believes it is.

 

Duncan was a convicted murderer when he was conscripted, and the person who conscripted him actually was hoping he'd die in the joining. 

 

Daveth was a thief and a pickpocket, and was going to be strung up by the guards if Duncan hadn't conscripted him. 

 

Nearly all the Wardens join or get conscripted as criminals. The Dwarven noble is convicted (without a trial) of fratricide. The Casteless broke all the sacred traditions of the proving and was a criminal of the highest order, also part of the carta, and faced execution if it weren't for Duncan. The mage faces Aeonar, tranquility or death for helping Jowan. The City Elf kills a bunch of guards and possibly the bann's own son. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The mage faces Aeonar, tranquility or death for helping Jowan.

Actually, I think if you rat Jowan out you're pretty much in the clear.

[dragonflight288]

Actually, I think if you rat Jowan out you're pretty much in the clear.

 

Well, yeah. That's why I brought up the mage who helps Jowan. 

 

Maybe I should have clarified more. 

[X Equestris]

Actually, I think if you rat Jowan out you're pretty much in the clear.

Even then, Greagor is rather...upset.

[TEWR]

Even then, Greagor is rather...upset.

 

He's got every reason to be, to be honest. While I like how Irving shows the Chantry their own aren't blameless in the situation, ultimately what happened is that a blood mage was still allowed to destroy the only means of tracking him and -- although this is Jowan -- in theory a blood mage on the loose can cause untold damage to the countryside.

 

Which Jowan did do, in a way. 

 

Although the MW helped them out as an inside agent, it was still more about Irving having a grudge against the Chantry that affected his long-term outlook on things. And Greagoir does have reason to be pissed off.

[X Equestris]

He's got every reason to be, to be honest. While I like how Irving shows the Chantry their own aren't blameless in the situation, ultimately what happened is that a blood mage was still allowed to destroy the only means of tracking him and -- although this is Jowan -- in theory a blood mage on the loose can cause untold damage to the countryside.
 
Which Jowan did do, in a way. 
 
Although the MW helped them out as an inside agent, it was still more about Irving having a grudge against the Chantry that affected his long-term outlook on things. And Greagoir does have reason to be pissed off.

Oh I agree, he has every reason to be. So even if you tell on Jowan, you still might not be in the clear.

[dragonflight288]

Oh I agree, he has every reason to be. So even if you tell on Jowan, you still might not be in the clear.

 

Though your punishment may not be as severe since Irving is taking responsibility for your actions. 

 

Probably will end up facing solitary confinement or having privileges removed or something. Gregoire is not a harsh or unreasonable man (even though putting Anders into a whole year of solitary confinement is taking things a bit too far in my opinion. It's very difficult to come out of that completely sane, if it's possible at all.)