29 réponses à ce sujet

[Avalonica]

While most review sites praise Dragon Age Keep I have some serious questions/feedback on it.

 

Most importantly before I continue, Dragon Age Keep is basically a plain copy of Gibbed's Dragon Age 2 savegame porter and NOTHING new under the sun. Gibbed has made savegame editors for most popular games, and his editor for Borderlands 2 even has console savegame import/export support. But now onto the questions/feedback:

• Is Dragon Age Keep a web based "only" application?
• When EA pulls the plug on DA:I multplayer co-op then Dragon Age Keep will also die?
• Why was the entire Dragon Age Keep feature not included inside DA:I?
• Will Dragon Age Keep also be released like a "Gibbed" savegame editor?

In a way "consoles" have done more harm than good for PC gamers, and what "Gibbed" solved with one easy editor for Dragon Age 2 (and his editor for Mass Effect 2 even managed to FIX the Conrad bug) is now made "overcomplicated" with logins and web-based services that will go dark when EA pulls the plug.

 

My plea to the developers, please make a "program based" Dragon Age Keep in the spirit of "gibbed" for PC that can be downloaded and that does NOT have to connect to EA servers or need any logins et cetera.

[Andraste_Reborn]

You should probably put this in the Keep thread on the Scuttlebut forum. Devs actually visit there, although I have no way of knowing if any of them will answer your questions.

 

(I can answer the first, one, though. Yes, the Keep is web-based only.)

[Avalonica]

You should probably put this in the Keep thread on the Scuttlebut forum. Devs actually visit there, although I have no way of knowing if any of them will answer your questions.

 

(I can answer the first, one, though. Yes, the Keep is web-based only.)

 

This does not bode well..., by the gods I really hope Gibbed comes to the rescue on this one!

[Hizoku]

 

 

 

• Is Dragon Age Keep a web based "only" application?
• When EA pulls the plug on DA:I multplayer co-op then Dragon Age Keep will also die?

1. Yes, its purely browser based. (so far, never know what they'll do with it in the future)

2. I believe Bioware has stated that they want to keep the Keep going even after DAI for future DA games.

 

only Bioware can answer your other questions.

[Avalonica]

1. Yes, its purely browser based. (so far, never know what they'll do with it in the future)

2. I believe Bioware has stated that they want to keep the Keep going even after DAI for future DA games.

 

And logically when EA pulls the plug on the "future" DA games it's bye bye Dragon Age Keep. ::sigh:: It's like most modern games has a "best before" date like milk in the store. I really miss the golden era before DLC's, micro transactions and even Internet... yes; Internet and Consoles killed the PC games!

[Dubya75]

While most review sites praise Dragon Age Keep I have some serious questions/feedback on it.

 

Most importantly before I continue, Dragon Age Keep is basically a plain copy of Gibbed's Dragon Age 2 savegame porter and NOTHING new under the sun. Gibbed has made savegame editors for most popular games, and his editor for Borderlands 2 even has console savegame import/export support. But now onto the questions/feedback:

• Is Dragon Age Keep a web based "only" application?
• When EA pulls the plug on DA:I multplayer co-op then Dragon Age Keep will also die?
• Why was the entire Dragon Age Keep feature not included inside DA:I?
• Will Dragon Age Keep also be released like a "Gibbed" savegame editor?

In a way "consoles" have done more harm than good for PC gamers, and what "Gibbed" solved with one easy editor for Dragon Age 2 (and his editor for Mass Effect 2 even managed to FIX the Conrad bug) is now made "overcomplicated" with logins and web-based services that will go dark when EA pulls the plug.

 

My plea to the developers, please make a "program based" Dragon Age Keep in the spirit of "gibbed" for PC that can be downloaded and that does NOT have to connect to EA servers or need any logins et cetera.

 

All your answers are available on the net. You are clearly NOT understanding the Keep at all, so I would suggest you calm yourself down, ignorant one and sit through gamermb83's video explaining what the Keep is and isn't: 

[OctagonalSquare]

Oh, no! The plight of the PC gamer! You poor lost soul! Gimme a break.

 

The Keep will be likely kept online for future DA games, and I reckon it will be used for other BioWare games as well. By the time the servers go down DAI will be really friggin' old. So old that no one will really give a ****.

[Andraste_Reborn]

So old that no one will really give a ****.

 

While I'm not worried about the Keep going offline (I think there'll be some kind of offline solution for imports by then, on PC at least) I don't think that's ever going to happen. I still replay BioWare games that are fifteen years old, and I'd be surprised if I'm not still going back to DAI in 2030.

 

(Of course, the game might have had an extended edition re-release with some kind of Keep substitute included by then. Or the robots may have taken over.)

[Kantr]

It's a lot better than Gibbed's

Seeing as it has over 300 choices.

[phantomrachie]

Gibbed save editor doesn't have anywhere near as many choices as the Keep does. The Keep is better than a program because it is much easier to update.

 

If they provided a program, then every time a new game or piece of DLC was released they'd have to get everyone to update their program, which unless they can push that update through Origin or something, would be very difficult.

 

Even if they just wanted to make a minor update it would be a big deal.

 

Then comes compatibility issues, will the save you created from a program work, if you don't have the most up to date version?

 

Then comes the platform issues, they'd have to release a new one for every new Windows OS, what if console players don't have a PC or laptop, the Keep can be used on a tablet, phone or even the browser in the console, if it were a piece of software seperate apps would have to be created for everything.

 

The only advantage that something like Gibbed Save Editor has over the Keep, is that IF many years in the future from now, the server gets taken down, we won't be able to use it any more.

 

Since the Keep will be used in future games, this is a long way off but if it does happen, I would say that BioWare would give us a chance to download some save files for future use.

 

Also, as an FYI saying consoles and the internet ruined PC games is silly for two reasons

 

1. One of the first PC game (not developed in a lab) was  Adventure in 1976/77, one of the first console games was Pong in 1974, so PC gaming and console gaming have grown up together. They have always been together.
2. The internet gave us Steam, Steam and other digital distributors have caused a resurgence in PC gaming.

[Avalonica]

What I did mean with "consoles" ruining the PC games is the "dumbing down", compare Dragon Age 1 with Dragon Age 2. DA2 is the perfect example on a game MADE for a console. Most modern games are "developed" with the limitations of consoles in mind and it really shows! I apologize for not being clear about the issue as I presumed most people had experienced this issue firsthand too.

 

Regarding Gibbed and Dragon Age Keep they are indeed not similar if we look on the "whole picture". Gibbeds savegame editors are WAY more advanced than anything Dragon Age Keep ever will do. Gibbed has in most of his editors features (just take a look on his Borderlands 2 savegame editor) that a developer NEVER will include. And last time I checked Gibbed has "still" not made any editor for DA:I because if/when he does it will be light-years more advanced than anything EA will provide us with (when your enemy gives you a cookie, its a bad cookie).

[dutch_gamer]

What dumbing down? I am PC gamer and I never felt DA 2 was a dumbed down version of DAO. Yes, DA 2 needed more time to bake. Is it the more action combat that is somehow seen as dumbed down? DAO's combat feels extremely lackluster in comparison with combat in a lot of other games, mostly PC games too.

And how are you looking at the whole picture? We don't know all the details of the Keep so it is impossible to say that Gibbed's editor is going to be superior to the Keep. Looking at the whole picture can only be done if you know the details of all of it, which nobody does, considering there is no Gibbed editor for DAI.

[Magdalena11]

... (when your enemy gives you a cookie, its a bad cookie).

If you're convinced EA is the enemy, why are you buying their product?  If you have an enemy, don't throw money at it, that will only make it stronger.

 

I was forced to use Gibbed for DA2 because of the buggy import system.  It had two glaring flaws:  it allowed mutually exclusive plot states to co-exist and did not account for all the existing ones.  EA knows what's going to matter and what actually could have happened and they're going to be in the best position to offer a selection of plot choices, since they wrote the game.

[Basement Cat]

Avalonica, are you being paid by Gibbed to promote their stuff? 

[phantomrachie]

What I did mean with "consoles" ruining the PC games is the "dumbing down", compare Dragon Age 1 with Dragon Age 2. DA2 is the perfect example on a game MADE for a console. Most modern games are "developed" with the limitations of consoles in mind and it really shows! I apologize for not being clear about the issue as I presumed most people had experienced this issue firsthand too.

 

Regarding Gibbed and Dragon Age Keep they are indeed not similar if we look on the "whole picture". Gibbeds savegame editors are WAY more advanced than anything Dragon Age Keep ever will do. Gibbed has in most of his editors features (just take a look on his Borderlands 2 savegame editor) that a developer NEVER will include. And last time I checked Gibbed has "still" not made any editor for DA:I because if/when he does it will be light-years more advanced than anything EA will provide us with (when your enemy gives you a cookie, its a bad cookie).

 

"dumbing down" is an incredibly ambiguous phrase. Some people consider the inventory system in ME2 'dumbed down' in comparison to the one in ME1, these people tend to blame consoles.

 

I'm not one of those people, I'm not a fan of sorting through 100's of inventory items comparing pants to see which one is the best. I liked the fact that weapon tables were used to switch out items, because it never made sense to me that the inventory in games seems to be hidden up the protagonists arse.

 

I felt these changes improved the UX and were streamlining rather than 'dumbing down'

 

This is just one example, I could give you 100's of others. 

 

As for Gibbed, you have not given any specifics on how it will be better other than the server issue.

 

The Keep as over 300 choices to make, the DA2 Gibbed editor had no where near that and left out a lot of the smaller choices.

The Keep gives a description of the choice you are making so that first time players or players without save spreadsheets can have a context to their choice. Gibbed does not.

The Keep is a one stop shop for creating world states for DA:I and all future games. I'd have to download each individual Gibbed Save editor.

The Keep can be automatically updated with the new decisions for DLC or new games, Gibbed can't.

The Keep doesn't allow for mutually exclusive flags to exist, Gibbed's does.

 

How could Gibbed make a save editor for a game that is not released yet?

 

EA is not my enemy, they are a games publisher. In the grand scheme of things,companies who pollute the environment, use child labour, use slave labour, have union works killed, etc are much higher on my "enemies" list.

 

Edit:Typo

[Messi Kossmann]

[Avalonica]

To each of his/her own I say, and naturally some people are happy with a "dumbed down game", but the trend is still the same. Look on a classic like "Ultima 7, part 2" or "Baldurs Gate 2", if those game where to be "scaled down" comparably as how "Dragon Age 2" was then their "soul and playability would suffer".

 

Why do you think EA don't call DA:I for Dragon Age 3? It's like DA2 never existed in the first place. And don't have me started of Mass Effect 3 and it's ending. Yes, the "ending" of mass effect 3 has full relevance here because "gamers" where promised something and ultimately was delivered something completely different (feel free to goggle up the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy).

 

Dumbed down games (i.e. "console friendly) and lackluster quality is the price we consumers have to pay because we never say stop. In the golden era we did not have "DLC's" but REAL "expansion packs". So yes, I stand by my statement: Consoles (in todays era) have HURT the PC games lot more than given better games (the wost thing that come to my mind is the horrible ports).

[IAMTHEOVERLORD]

All I can think of when I read this forum is...RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Oh, another "consoles ruined gaming" thread

[phantomrachie]

To each of his/her own I say, and naturally some people are happy with a "dumbed down game", but the trend is still the same. Look on a classic like "Ultima 7, part 2" or "Baldurs Gate 2", if those game where to be "scaled down" comparably as how "Dragon Age 2" was then their "soul and playability would suffer".

 

Why do you think EA don't call DA:I for Dragon Age 3? It's like DA2 never existed in the first place. And don't have me started of Mass Effect 3 and it's ending. Yes, the "ending" of mass effect 3 has full relevance here because "gamers" where promised something and ultimately was delivered something completely different (feel free to goggle up the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy).

 

Dumbed down games (i.e. "console friendly) and lackluster quality is the price we consumers have to pay because we never say stop. In the golden era we did not have "DLC's" but REAL "expansion packs". So yes, I stand by my statement: Consoles (in todays era) have HURT the PC games lot more than given better games (the wost thing that come to my mind is the horrible ports).

 

DA2 suffered from a lack of development time not from a 'dumbing down' for consoles.

 

DA:I is not called DA3 because BioWare felt that people would think there is a continuation of a particular story like the Mass Effect Trilogy, in fairness that is exactly what some people thought that DA2 was going to be.

 

I won't get into a debate about the ME3 ending, but what I will say is that is has NOTHING to do with consoles. It was story writing, the story would not have changed if the series was a PC only game.

 

You are still using a needlessly ambiguous phrase, (perhaps on purpose) so you don't have to give specific examples or response to specific points.

 

Lets 'look' at BG2 V DA2, there is alot that DA2 has that I prefer, for example I prefer the companions  in DA2, I prefer the UI, the combat. 

 

You can't just point to one game and say "just look at it, its totally better and this other game is dumbed down" without giving specific examples, otherwise you are not adding anything to a debate/conversation.

 

Edit: More typos, I can't type today

[Avalonica]

EA is not my enemy, they are a games publisher. In the grand scheme of things,companies who pollute the environment, use child labour, use slave labour, have union works killed, etc are much higher on my "enemies" list.

 

Edit:Typo

 

Let's stay in the "game world" and avoid dragging in political nonsense in the discussion. Anyways, to get back on track: EA has far to many time "cut development time" short for developers and subsequently games (under development) and consumers have paid a heavy price for it. This time around with the Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2 fiasco the "light-bulb" has finaly been turned on: longer development time = greater chance of a marker success with a game. And that really is a step in the right direction.

 

However, what NOT is a step in the right direction is the DLC spam, micro transactions and server dependent parts in games that make them UNPLAYABLE when the EA servers go down.

 

Regarding Gibbed I have a feeling most people that argue against his quality savegame editors never properly have used them in the first place. Tell me, for Mass Effect and the other Dragon Age games, where are EA's versions of "Dragon Age Keep"? EA stole Gibbed's concept and "dumbed it down". And regarding "updates are needed", LOL, Gibbeds editors (most modern ones mind you) have RAW edit mode and thus can EDIT any savegame even if a new DLC or Expansion pack is released, so in a way we can put it like this: the "normal" player can/will have problems if going into "advanced editmode" in a Gibbed savegame editor, but to say: Gibbed needs updates once released for a game is a false statement.

 

Beside, Gibbeds Bordelands 2 editor beats "Dragon Age Keep" anytime any day (download and take a look), so if/when Gibbed makes "his" version of "Dragon Age Keep" it will be much better.

 

But what matters here is really that EA delivers (from what I can understand) a product with lots of strings attached to it that DON't have to be delivered in the first place! Why not have ALL the things Dragon Age Keep offers IN THE GAME as an "advanced option". Really... I must use an "external web-page" to make a "savegame" and have it ported to my PC/Console... sounds more like a backwards copy-protection scheme than anything else. Again: why not have the FUNCTIONS in the game on "delivery date". In Mass Effect 2 (i think) there was a DLC that actually included something similar to "Dragon Age Keep", so I apologize for NOT being a "Dragon Age Keep" fan as things now stand when we go several steps backwards when it's not even needed.

[Vapaa]

 

Most importantly before I continue, Dragon Age Keep is basically a plain copy of Gibbed's Dragon Age 2 savegame porter and NOTHING new under the sun.

 

No it isn't

 

And the DA2 savegame creator is already a far cry of what you can use for ME2 and ME3...

[IAMTHEOVERLORD]

A mod save editor will never be as good as one created by the developers.

[Avalonica]

Avalonica, are you being paid by Gibbed to promote their stuff? 

Postfarming much? But to answer your question: As games become more advanced and uses encryption and strange archive routines only the professionals can make quality savegame editors. When comparing what "Dragon Age Keep" offers (with lots of downsides) vs the quality work of Gibbed your question is funny. Why would I "promote" Gibbeds fantastic savegame editors for payment? The only ones promoting (and often sub-par products) for PAYMENT is people working for EA, lol, Mass Effect 3 ending before the game was released comes to my mind (hahaha).

[Avalonica]

No it isn't

 

And the DA2 savegame creator is already a far cry of what you can use for ME2 and ME3...

 

Yes, Gibbeds savegame editors for ME2 and ME3 are lightyears way more advanced than the one for DA2, never told anyone otherwise.