225 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I'm sure it is a pain if you don't want to use the controller.  The demo players didn't seem too uncomfortable doing it, however, so I don't imagine I will be either.  I can think of one example of a game several years back on PS3 that had a fun RTS mode that worked wonderfully with a controller, seeing as that was the only way to play it.

 

Not sure why there have to be "this is a worse way to play" comments when it really comes down to what people prefer.

 

It's a worse way to play in comparison to what we had before on PC. It's not about thrashing their work for fidelity with a controller - but I can't see any justification for the position that a controller is superior when it comes to point and click. Just like a track pad (IMO) is worse than a mouse for the same. 

[In Exile]

This isn't saying any more than we've heard about the PC...He's just stating it's identical to Xbox, and it's been stated that PC UI is different than Xbox. PS has been as overlooked as PC has at this point.

 

The difference though is that the gameplay/interface should be the same on PS3/4 and Xbox1/360. This is not the same as PC, which would have a wholly different gameplay. 

[J-Reyno]

It's a worse way to play in comparison to what we had before on PC. It's not about thrashing their work for fidelity with a controller - but I can't see any justification for the position that a controller is superior when it comes to point and click. Just like a track pad (IMO) is worse than a mouse for the same. 

 

I had to stop for a minute to figure out what you were talking about and I realized... I thought you were trying to dissuade me from using the controller or diss my choice to do so with your first response. I see now that you were saying it's a pain to use for you, personally? Right. I understand that may be the case for you.  I was just stating that I'm one of those PC players who will be using a controller. Wasn't trying to convince others to do the same or state that it's better since I'm not concerned about what others do. I expect controller to function well and be the most comfortable option for me.  Hopefully those who are strict K/M users will have everything they could want from it as well.

[In Exile]

I had to stop for a minute to figure out what you were talking about and I realized... I thought you were trying to dissuade me from using the controller or diss my choice to do so with your first response. I see now that you were saying it's a pain to use for you, personally? Right. I understand that may be the case for you.  I was just stating that I'm one of those PC players who will be using a controller. Wasn't trying to convince others to do the same or state that it's better since I'm not concerned about what others do. I expect controller to function well and be the most comfortable option for me.  Hopefully those who are strict K/M users will have everything they could want from it as well.

 

I'm not saying it's a pain in some abstract sense, just that I think KBM is superior for the kind of things the tactical camera is asking you to do (point and click to move and select targets, etc.) 

[AshenEndymion]

The difference though is that the gameplay/interface should be the same on PS3/4 and Xbox1/360. This is not the same as PC, which would have a wholly different gameplay. 

 

Wait... Hasn't it been stated that the only significant difference between the platforms will be graphical?

 

So if there are only eight usable abilities for the consoles(and no way to use any abilities through the radial menu), wouldn't giving the PC more than eight usable abilities be contrary to that statement?  PC players being able to use as many spells as they want during combat, as opposed to eight for console players, seems like a "significant difference" to me...

[AshenEndymion]

Didn't Mike say you could rebind abilities during combat if you really want to? Then it's not a functional difference, it's just PC users not having to put up with the controller's deficiencies (the deficit of buttons). Being limited artificially in quickslots would be rather annoying.

 

It will also be very annoying if everything has to route through a menu screen like ME2 and 3, and we can't just press I for inventory, J for journal, etc.

 

They said you can remap abilities "in the field".  That's decidedly different from "during combat".

 

I'm hopeful you can remap during combat, and I'd agree that such a thing would mean that there would be no reason for PC not to have a hotbar...  But if "in the field" just means "when you're not fighting", then it would be a functional difference...

[In Exile]

Wait... Hasn't it been stated that the only significant difference between the platforms will be graphical?

 

So if there are only eight usable abilities for the consoles(and no way to use any abilities through the radial menu), wouldn't giving the PC more than eight usable abilities be contrary to that statement?  PC players being able to use as many spells as they want during combat, as opposed to eight for console players, seems like a "significant difference" to me...

 

I wasn't talking about the ability limit in that case, but rather what the gameplay is like between the two versions. Even if there are under the hood similarities, DA:I on PC has to do things differently to avoid simply being a poor KBM controller port (and, more importantly, to re-create the DA:O isometric gameplay). 

[Novos]

In my opinion; combat is one of the major features which makes Dragon Age unique and stand out against other titles in the genre.

 

In one end; you can set up tactics so that you only focus on your character and go grazy with an appropriate third person view. In the other end; you can go all hardcore and micromanage your characters to death; basicly dictating the flow of the combat however you please. You can approach and play each encounter different with this way if you really want to.

 

Basicly; the combat in Dragon Age series pretty much covers any playstyle which is a very strong and major selling feature for the game. Therefore i just can't reason with making drastic changes to combat in every new installement, instead of giving it more emphasis and polish. There seems to be a significant bias towards action gaming in both DA2 and DAI(from what we have seen up to now) shifting or limiting this alreay balanced system. I mean; why would you limit yourself while you already have a working mechanic catering to any playstyle ?

 

That is why people like me are concerned over things like the UI, tactical camera, point and click movement, limited abilities etc... Because they are the major elements which makes the combat system so unique and diverse.

[dutch_gamer]

Wait... Hasn't it been stated that the only significant difference between the platforms will be graphical?
 
So if there are only eight usable abilities for the consoles(and no way to use any abilities through the radial menu), wouldn't giving the PC more than eight usable abilities be contrary to that statement?  PC players being able to use as many spells as they want during combat, as opposed to eight for console players, seems like a "significant difference" to me...

I believe there aren't just only 8 abilities on the consoles though. I actually believe the limitation will more than likely apply to the PC as well. Why? Well I can't see BioWare creating a different console UI for the PC. If the controller made them limit the abilities to 8 it stands to reason that the same limitation will apply to anyone who uses a controller on the PC. And because of that I just can't see them giving more abilities on the kb/m version. Playing with the controller or kb/m should be a choice, a choice which doesn't change gameplay but allows players to choose what they find the most comfortable to play with.

That said, I don't have any issues with only having 8 abilities because it adds up to 32 with the whole party, which is about the same amount as some MMORPGs have or had before the amount of abilities were brought down in the current (and maybe last) generation. After having played a couple of games with only a bar full of abilities at most I tried to play one of the "WoW" generation of MMOs again and I actually got "mad" at receiving so many abilities. At some point I just get annoyed with getting an almost identical ability to a previous one but with a slight variation to it when I already have rows and rows of abilities. Not to mention that more often than not a lot of those abilities are only used once in a blue moon. Even in the RPG generation with many rows of abilities there are only a handful of abilities you actually use a lot and they are a part of the "rotation", the way to play, especially in MMOs.

Am I afraid there won't be kb/m UI? No, because they have actually posted on this forum before that there will be one, a bunch of times. I (I am only talking about myself) don't need to see one so badly right now just to believe their word. There is a time to call the developers out on lying but not so much before the product is actually out. It seems that since the ME 3 debacle more gamers have a hard time believing anything the developers tell us. Sure, being skeptical is okay but if you get reassured time after time, even if they have yet to show even a screenshot, and then still choose to not believe them (not saying people in this thread do this but I have seen this behavior a lot in the multiplayer threads) it does make me wonder why someone who chooses not to believe anything even hangs out on a pre-release forum. If you choose to not believe anything there is really nothing to discuss because everything said could be a lie. Maybe there is no game either?

[TurretSyndrome]

For a while now, I thought of trying this game out with a controller but I know it in my heart that I'm not even going to last for 5 minutes trying to play a RPG with a controller. That happened to me in Tera despite its fewer number of abilities compared to other MMOs I've played. 

 

Therefore, I am prepared for the worst. Which is; simplistic console-type UI designed for PC. We probably won't even have to press anything past 1234 E,Q and R to access everything on the screen. It's just that ever since I glanced at MP(I am glad it's there), I feel it in my gut that the price for it are the UIs. The consoles lost their Radial Menu and mid-battle talent access and us PC gamers lose the tried and true KB/M UI. 

[wcholcombe]

This video:

 

 

at the end shows the game running in tactical camera.  Warning if you are avoiding spoilers and not watching videos, it does have a few spoilers in it.

 

It isn't PC obviously, but it does show tactical view not in pause mode.

[Navasha]

@dutch_gamer - Hence our concern.   Why do people think its just acceptable that kb/m users should just accept the limitations of a controller?   Controllers are limited to a small physical limitation in their number of buttons.   Keyboards have FAR more buttons available.   Mice have a point in which they can select any number of positions for 'slot' representations on the screen.

 

That is the whole point to a unique PC interface.   NOT limiting us by the physical limitations of a control scheme that we don't even use.   Using a controller is a choice, as you said.   Part of that choice is accepting the limitations of it.    Kb/m users shouldn't have to accept the limitations of other peoples choices. 

 

There is no point in forcing a subset of people through a tedious control scheme of having to switch out abilities constantly because a different subset of players only have access to a very limited number of buttons.  

[TurretSyndrome]

There is no point in forcing a subset of people through a tedious control scheme of having to switch out abilities constantly because a different subset of players only have access to a very limited number of buttons.  

 

But, but equality... /sarcasm

[Sylvius the Mad]

But, but equality...

...doesn't serve individual interests.

Equality is not a sensical objective.

[dekkerd]

 
That is the whole point to a unique PC interface.   NOT limiting us by the physical limitations of a control scheme that we don't even use.   Using a controller is a choice, as you said.   Part of that choice is accepting the limitations of it.    Kb/m users shouldn't have to accept the limitations of other peoples choices. 
 
There is no point in forcing a subset of people through a tedious control scheme of having to switch out abilities constantly because a different subset of players only have access to a very limited number of buttons.

There is no reason for the limit at all. Radial menu allowed access to all abilities via controller for the last two games. Why the change?

[Ashelsu]

But, but equality...

Will X-box players abstain from playing DAI before all others for the equality? There is no such thing.

After Skyrim and the Witcher 2 I'm very suspicious about PC UI.

[Brogan]

Ugh... another thread about this... Actually it might as well continue up until release.  Will make linking previous threads easier in the inevitable 'worst case scenario' reaction posts if they truly balls this up.  However, I'm not as overly concerned as I was.  I even started a thread asking for a screenshot of a mouse cursor just to know it existed.  Didn't get the ss but I was satisfied at least with the Laidlaw tweet that yes, it existed.

 

Not sure why there have to be "this is a worse way to play" comments when it really comes down to what people prefer.

 

See, that's missing the point, it's way more than choosing what input device to use.  This is likely the core reason for the Microsoft conspriacy, if there is one.  I'll explain below.

 

The difference though is that the gameplay/interface should be the same on PS3/4 and Xbox1/360. This is not the same as PC, which would have a wholly different gameplay. 

 

Exactly.  If you never played PC games, and were only subjected to console style action gaming, then of all the video's shown thus far would give you no reason to think that playing DAI on PC might look any differently.  It all goes back to using a mouse and how both the game camera and each of the elements on the screen are manipulated by (and thus programmed for) mouse clicks.  You watch this video and there are clear indicators that all movement and selection functions are designed with a dpad in mind.  On PC, you should not be limited in such a way.  I say should because as responsible designers, Bioware has a reputation to uphold on the platform, specifically because of what 'In Exile' says right here:

I wasn't talking about the ability limit in that case, but rather what the gameplay is like between the two versions. Even if there are under the hood similarities, DA:I on PC has to do things differently to avoid simply being a poor KBM controller port (and, more importantly, to re-create the DA:O isometric gameplay). 

 

Oh, and I use my mouse to trigger everything. My hand is on the spacebar, not WASD. I don't drive; I move to point.

 

I think it's fairly safe to assume that the majority PC gamers do this as well.  The spacebar (pause) and the mouse really should be all you need.  Even hitting J for journal is superfluous if you have a ready-to-be-clicked journal icon at the top or bottom of the screen.  This simplicity is important.

 

As for the M$ conspriacy theory, I don't know how much weight we can really place in it considering it's something that would never be confirmed (at least officially).  That said, if the idea is to make gamers (prospective customers) with both platforms gravitate to the XBone, then not letting them see a version of the game that:

 

- allows full panning and zooming at all times

- lets you actually see the front of your character as they fight or walk towards you whilst zooming and not just thier backs

- lets you pull back and view (and not in the busy looking "tactical cam") combat from any angle as it progresses

- has full size menu's and clickable options, toggles, etc that can all be accessed on one screen

 

... etc, etc, then that might just be a pretty wise investment on MS's behalf. 

 

If not, then my hope remains that Bioware is taking this extra delay time to make sure the PC version of their game does all the things listed above and more and does them well.  Because no, they don't owe it to us, but they do have a reputation to uphold.

[archav3n]

Did you even read my post at all? 

 

"That's not to say that controllers are better, or that they deserve to have more care and thought put into their UI versus the mouse/keyboard UI."

 

I want more consideration put into mouse/keyboard UI, just like you. I'm not making excuses for the developers being lazy. But I'm just stating a fact that there are more controller users than mouse/keyboard users. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's a good thing, or a bad thing, just stating a fact.

 

Facts? more controllers vs. keyboards? If you don't have concrete proof that's not fact but opinion.

[Brogan]

Facts? more controllers vs. keyboards? If you don't have concrete proof that's not fact but opinion.

 

You mean like this?

 

Perhaps PC fanbase are too small a minority that they don't really bother.

[spacediscosaurus]

Facts? more controllers vs. keyboards? If you don't have concrete proof that's not fact but opinion.

 

Okay, I admit, "fact" wasn't the best choice of words. It's not exactly "opinion" either though. More like "logical deduction". With the sheer amount of consoles, and considering that PC gamers can choose to use a controller (which many do, especially people who switched from consoles and are used to it), there would logically be more people who are comfortable with and use controllers than mouse/keyboard. Especially since even a large amount of people who consider themselves "non-gamers", in my experience, have at least played a Nintendo console at some point in their lives, but have never even considered PC as a gaming platform.

 

I have an extremely strong preference for mouse/keyboard. But I won't let that cloud my logic when it comes to figuring out what is more likely for people to use.

[archav3n]

You mean like this?

 

Perhaps is not facts no? Perhaps is more like maybe. It's not saying like it's fact and i speak the truth

 

Okay, I admit, "fact" wasn't the best choice of words. It's not exactly "opinion" either though. More like "logical deduction". With the sheer amount of consoles, and considering that PC gamers can choose to use a controller (which many do, especially people who switched from consoles and are used to it), there would logically be more people who are comfortable with and use controllers than mouse/keyboard. Especially since even a large amount of people who consider themselves "non-gamers", in my experience, have at least played a Nintendo console at some point in their lives, but have never even considered PC as a gaming platform.

 

I have an extremely strong preference for mouse/keyboard. But I won't let that cloud my logic when it comes to figuring out what is more likely for people to use.

 

I agree on the "logical deduction" but not the fact you spoke off earlier. Not that i hate controllers, there are games are best played with a controller. There are games best played with a Keyboard & Mouse and there are games best played with an Arcade Stick or a Steering wheel, in my opinion.

 

Anyhow back on topic, i love to play the game completely top-down during combat and i feel it's best to be played using KB&M for Dragon Age Inquisition. I personally think Dragon Age Origins was awesome. Simply because the combat is meant to be tactical and the first/third person view is for immersion of the game world. But first/third person combat is simply because it's to promote the game on consoles with a controller in my opinion.

[spacediscosaurus]

<snip>

 

I appreciate you calling me out on stating "fact" that is unsupported. I went off on someone earlier in this thread for stating their opinion as fact, and that was hypocritical of me to do something similar, so thanks.

[BloodyTalon]

Its just seeming more and more likely there won't be a proper pc ui, espically given some recent hands on things being done with controller.

But hopefully we do get some word soon, don't want it turning out like some games where they said that it had proper pc and keyboard and mouse support but it didn't.

-Shrugs- For some reason getting the feeling its going to end up being recomended to use a controller, but we will see most likely at the end next month.

Just my two bits.