74 réponses à ce sujet

[rupok93]

In a perfect world devs would balance the grind and at the same time give consumers the option to pay. But unfortunately I cannot trust companies who stand to make money out of them in reality. I have the fear that they will intentionally increase grind to ridiculous levels or close to it to get people to pay. Furthermore with the news that EA wants to make $1billion in additional content makes me worry even more.

 

I want everything to be unlockable in less than 100 hours or so. If you have to spend 100's of hours to unlock everything I will know that they increased the grind for monetary purposes.

 

So this is my perfect situation:

- unlock all content in mp in 100 hours or less

- some people can pay if they want to to support additional dlc content for free for everyone

- they release free content like extra characters with some of the money they earn

 

 

I really need clarification that this will happen otherwise I will be living with huge amounts of skepticism for a game I want to be great.

[Vapaa]

I want everything to be unlockable in less than 50 hours or so. If you have to spend 100's of hours to unlock everything I will know that they increased the grind for monetary purposes.

 

In ME3 you'd have to clock around 1000 hours to get EVERYTHING.

[rupok93]

In ME3 you'd have to clock around 1000 hours to get EVERYTHING.

 

Unfortunately this is the main problem with microtransactions affecting game design. I played me3, I liked it but I got kind of annoyed having to grind so many matches to get decent equipment. I know some people were fine with it but I like games that let you unlock everything early and you play because the game is fun not because there is progression, especially when the progression takes so much time.

 

So you basically have two options, have no life to get extremely good gear or pay.

[Beerfish]

A totally unrealistic point of view.  If you want to finish a manifest quickly you will have to pay.  You are under no obligation to pay at all.  Also the object of the game is not just to complete a manifest quickly.  The only way mp is included in a game is due to micros.  The only reason they will invest in people to look after the game create dlc and have ongoing support is micros.  If you want to complete a manifest and do not want to spend a dime you can do so but you have to work for it. 

[Vapaa]

 

So you basically have two options, have no life to get extremely good gear or pay.

 

I have a life AND extermely good gear, thank you very much.

 

Microtransactions actually meant that I got DLCs that added TWICE the base content for FREE.

[rupok93]

A totally unrealistic point of view.  If you want to finish a manifest quickly you will have to pay.  You are under no obligation to pay at all.  Also the object of the game is not just to complete a manifest quickly.  The only way mp is included in a game is due to micros.  The only reason they will invest in people to look after the game create dlc and have ongoing support is micros.  If you want to complete a manifest and do not want to spend a dime you can do so but you have to work for it. 

 

 

They should have created a seperate mp only f2p dragon age game if they wanted to bring their bs f2p type microtransactions in the game. I payed freaking $80 to have to pay more to get things in the game. This is why the game industry is going down the toilet.

 

I am under no obligation to pay? Ya I just have to spend 1000 hours in the game. Get out of here with that.

 

 

I have a life, thank you very much.

 

Microtransactions actually meant that I got DLCs that added TWICE the base content for FREE.

 

Thats why I said i am fine with microtransactions if they grind wasn't long but I KNOW FOR A FACT that it will be and they will take advantage of people with crooky tactics. There is no way in hell I will trust them until they tell me how long the grind is. When I see these kinds of payment models I think of GTA 5 and the new forza where it takes HUGE amounts of time to get anything decent in the game.

[Vapaa]

They should have created a seperate mp only f2p dragon age game if they wanted to bring their bs f2p type microtransactions in the game. I payed freaking $80 to have to pay more to get things in the game. This is why the game industry is going down the toilet.

 

The narrative of the MP tie in with the SP's plot, it only makes sense that it should be.

 

 

I am under no obligation to pay? Ya I just have to spend 1000 hours in the game. Get out of here with that.

 

It's that or paid DLCs, can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

 

Thats why I said i am fine with microtransactions if they grind wasn't long but I KNOW FOR A FACT that it will be and they will take advantage of people with crooky tactics. There is no way in hell I will trust them until they tell me how long the grind is. When I see these kinds of payment models I think of GTA 5 and the new forza where it takes HUGE amounts of time to get anything decent in the game.

 

Like I said in an other threa: quit bringing GTA5 on the table and look at how it's done with ME3.

[Kilek Darkfire]

I guess I don't really see the issue with it. Every pack is randomly generated, so there's plenty of chance to get some of the awesome gear you might want without having to pay a dime and not spending tons of hours on it. Yes, I understand that to get everything will take more time, but there's also the inclusion of crafting now that allows you to create armor to unlock new characters so you don't have to try to get them from the packs, I think that should shorten the number of hours needed to unlock everything.

[Itkovian]

They should have created a seperate mp only f2p dragon age game if they wanted to bring their bs f2p type microtransactions in the game. I payed freaking $80 to have to pay more to get things in the game. This is why the game industry is going down the toilet.

 

I am under no obligation to pay? Ya I just have to spend 1000 hours in the game. Get out of here with that.

 

You realize that without microtransactions there wouldn't be any multiplayer at all?

 

So yes, because of MTs you get more game for free. The ONLY WAY this is a loss for you or anyone else is if MP is not fun to play without taking the MT shortcut, which I seriously doubt is the case (and if it IS, then it will flop, and they'll know better next time).

[Beerfish]

The era of self entitlement is strong. 

[Cyonan]

The main thing to remember is that the vast majority of the grind was getting the ~5% drop rate ultra-rares. You could still get extremely good guns without that, and a number of rares were even better than most ultra-rares.

 

Beyond that, the crafting system will help to eliminate some of the RNG issues with the game. More specifically it will help cases like people not being able to get the Lancer because the UR pool was so saturated by the end.

 

Lastly, the micro-transactions are what pay for our free DLC which means that they do actually need to be an attractive deal for people. For that you typically need either A. micro-transaction only content(ideally cosmetic stuff) or B. rare gear that takes a good amount of time to get via in-game currency.

 

Without the micro-transactions you'd need to have paid DLC which would fragment the already somewhat smaller community or just have no DLC at all. Both of which can easily be a death sentence for the MP.

[ManOfSteel]

The era of self entitlement is strong.

Hardly. Concern about the developers tinkering with item drop rates to encourage the purchase of micro transactions is very real and very warranted.

Granted, I think the OP could have worded things a little better.

[rupok93]

The era of self entitlement is strong. 

 

O boy the old entitlement argument, haven't see that for awhile.

 

Its really funny that you support anti consumer practices when you are a consumer yourself. If you bothered to read I said I was perfectly fine with microtransactions but I don't want the grind to be insane, which at this point I am 90% sure they will be. All i wanted was clarification but they intentionally dodge the question in their Q&A. They say nothing is behind a paywall but want you to spend 1000 hours to get everything. Thats not how you get people to pay for stuff, theres many people like me that will just leave without paying a single cent when the mp is too grindy. 

 

If however the microtransactions were balanced and were just "lazy packs" I would stay for their free content and if they put out big expansions I would buy. They however have the notion that if you make people impatient it will get them to buy packs whereas most people would just stop playing mp.

[BackdoorPaco]

...companies who stand to make money...

This made me giggle.

 

The grind is what makes this kind of free structure work.

Some people won't want to grind and pay for goodies, others don't mind it and won't bother with purchases.

If it's anything like ME3, the grind serves as a teaching tool and helps people bridge the gap between difficulties. Also helps power the urge to continue playing for that one special item. It isn't as evil as it may seem.

[rupok93]

The main thing to remember is that the vast majority of the grind was getting the ~5% drop rate ultra-rares. You could still get extremely good guns without that, and a number of rares were even better than most ultra-rares.

 

Beyond that, the crafting system will help to eliminate some of the RNG issues with the game. More specifically it will help cases like people not being able to get the Lancer because the UR pool was so saturated by the end.

 

Lastly, the micro-transactions are what pay for our free DLC which means that they do actually need to be an attractive deal for people. For that you typically need either A. micro-transaction only content(ideally cosmetic stuff) or B. rare gear that takes a good amount of time to get via in-game currency.

 

Without the micro-transactions you'd need to have paid DLC which would fragment the already somewhat smaller community or just have no DLC at all. Both of which can easily be a death sentence for the MP.

 

Yes but this is a different game. I have no reason to believe that they won't increase the grind even further.

[rupok93]

This made me giggle.

 

The grind is what makes this kind of free structure work.

Some people won't want to grind and pay for goodies, others don't mind it and won't bother with purchases.

If it's anything like ME3, the grind serves as a teaching tool and helps people bridge the gap between difficulties. Also helps power the urge to continue playing for that one special item. It isn't as evil as it may seem.

 

 

Do you people read? I said I WAS FINE WITH MICRO TRANSACTIONS but I don't want them to over inflate the grind, I want it to be lazy packs for people and not either pay or grindly endlessly for hundreds of hours type deal. 

 

Also as I have said, I have no reason to believe that they won't increase the grind even further than me3. Thats why I want CLARIFICATION on the amount of time all unlocks take.

[Cyonan]

Yes but this is a different game. I have no reason to believe that they won't increase the grind even further.

 

You have no reason to believe that they wont increase the grind, but you also have none to believe that they will. All we know right now is that the crafting system will help with RNG screwing you out of that one weapon you really want.

 

While 1000 hours is a tad much I actually like the sense of progression and wouldn't want it to be 50 hours even if the game didn't have MTs at all. If it's going to last as long as ME3 MP has then I would want that progression to last a little bit longer than the first month of the game(and that's as a moderate player. A hardcore could do it within the first week at 50 hours).

 

Also it was that many hours to a maxed out manifest, not to getting very good weapons. Getting very good weapons could be easily accomplished within a couple of days of playing because of the abundance of great rare quality weapons.

[J-Reyno]

You shouldn't be concerned about grind unless the MP isn't fun and you feel compelled to unlock everything quickly in spite of that.

 

I don't know how it will play out in practice, but they've taken the model from ME3 and that was done extremely well.  The game was fun, so just by playing I was able to enjoy myself and naturally progress.  I never spent a dime on MP, but I unlocked everything.  Did I max my manifest, ultimately?  No.  I had some ultra rares that lingered around the 3-4 rank.  And I was cool with that because they were still good weapons anyway.

 

I look forward to letting other people pay for my DLC again.

[Wulfram]

To me it doesn't matter how long it takes to get everything.  But it does matter if you can't get something that'll allow you to be competitive in the higher levels of difficulty in reasonable time

[Vapaa]

While 1000 hours is a tad much

 

It's an exageration actually, because a lot of people who had to clock 1000 hours played since the beginning, so they didn't have high-end reinforcements packs and had to wait months with a full inventory before the next DLC.

 

When I picked the game on PC, I had a clear plan to speed up the inventory processs, and now I'm at 260h and only have the UR to max, but still have all weapons, even if not level 10.

[BackdoorPaco]

Do you people read? I said I WAS FINE WITH MICRO TRANSACTIONS but I don't want them to over inflate the grind, I want it to be lazy packs for people and not either pay or grindly endlessly for hundreds of hours type deal. 

 

Also as I have said, I have no reason to believe that they won't increase the grind even further than me3. Thats why I want CLARIFICATION on the amount of time all unlocks take.

Lazy packs = micro transaction. Can't have free content and expect devs to never make profit off them.

If you want a maxed out manifest/gear set/etc quickly, you have to grind or pay. To most, it won't matter because progression is more than enough to satisfy them.

 

On grind 'inflation', Cyonan explained it far better than I could.

[Cyonan]

It's an exageration actually, because a lot of people who had to clock 1000 hours played since the beginning, so they didn't have high-end reinforcements packs and had to wait months with a full inventory before the next DLC.

 

When I picked the game on PC, I had a clear plan to speed up the inventory processs, and now I'm at 260h and only have the UR to max, but still have all weapons, even if not level 10.

 

Yeah I just started using it because that's the number we started using it. I still think it could stand to be a little bit less when talking purely in terms of character progression.

[waitwhat]

I would absolutely hate it if everything was obtainable within 50 hours of multiplayer. I played around 60-70 hours of ME3 MP and I unlocked maybe 40% of the characters and that's great because I know if I get in the mood for it again I can totally jump back in and still have more stuff to unlock. If the multiplayer is fun (which ME3 is and I assume DAI will also be) then it's not a chore to play it and it shouldn't feel like grinding. it's playing a fun mode with rewards for doing so.

 

Furthermore, it also helps make each player a bit more unique. If it takes hundreds of hours to unlock everything, odds are most people will never unlock everything unless they are super dedicted and want to do so, which makes what you get more personalized and special. I like to think of it as a rebirth of what I liked about Pokemon Cards when I was a kid. It was equally random which cards you get and when you got a card you wanted or a card none of your friends had, there was something special about it.

 

Only we don't have to pay for these unless we want to, unlike Pokemon cards where we had no choice. I know I won't be using the microtransactions, I'd rather just actually play the MP, and it doesn't hurt me any to have those microtransactions there for those who want to use them. Some people just don't have the time to play for hours at a time and would rather spend extra money to keep up. So long as you never feel pressured to use those microtransactions then it's fine, and I never felt pressured in ME3.

[HTTP 404]

it looks like mass effects.  that system does not bother me