74 réponses à ce sujet

[Cassandra Saturn]

it's all about having fun in the MP. not to complete everything so fast. you'll miss out on the point of being a team player.

[Navasha]

Not sure why you would fear the system.   If you don't want to pay, then don't pay.   I played a lot of ME3 MP and I never spent a single dime on it.   Paying is for the people without the patience to unlock things by playing it.    Nothing is hidden behind needing real currency, you just have to play it longer to earn the coins. 

[CronoDragoon]

Er, what multiplayer that features character progression doesn't take a long time to cap everything?

 

Multiplayer length to cap isn't related to microtransactions. It's been this way since before MTs were a thing.

[yullyuk]

the ONLY time that micro transactions are ok, is when its purely for aesthetic purposes only or for equipment skins or better gear that could be obtained through gameplay, but can be skipped by purchasing it. Take swtor for example, i dont play it anymore but i went back and had a look at the changes since it went to F2P, and i was happy with how they handled gear now, all gear except for special gear that could only be obtained through gameplay could be customised to be purely aesthetic and have the same level of gear as it would be in anything else, and ya know what, the game benefits hugely from that, not because the microtransactions in that game are set up to be a pay to win style, no no no, the microtransactions are purely a convenience to make the game a little less taxing on your patience or to buy things you wouldnt ordinarily be able to get, but going along with that the equipment and gear u get doesnt take away from the gameplay, it just deepens that sense of customisability that the game gives you anyway in the core base game. If the MP to inquisition does this, then i wont be dissatisfied with it, i think bioware are one of the few companies around that wont operate a pay to win scheme to force the player to spend money they may not have, to enjoy the game. Sure i imagine the MP will have its hiccups, but thats what fan feedback is for and testing

[BioticMarauder]

I want everything to be unlockable in less than 100 hours or so. If you have to spend 100's of hours to unlock everything I will know that they increased the grind for monetary purposes.

 

What?? Just 100 hours to unlock everything? It has to be at least 500 hours imo unless you want everybody to have everything in a few months' time.

[Itkovian]

Hardly. Concern about the developers tinkering with item drop rates to encourage the purchase of micro transactions is very real and very warranted.

Granted, I think the OP could have worded things a little better.

 

But isn't that what F2P content is all about? Of course they're going to tinker the drop rate to create the required/projected revenue. What else COULD they do, other than somehow make content at a loss?

 

The tightrope act is in them getting the rate just right: not too low that the grind is unenjoyable, and not so high that there's no reason to buy packs with real money in the first place.

[funmachine]

100 hours seems a bit short, no? For me personally it was fun to try and max my manifest in ME3MP. I quit playing the second I got my last UR As long as everything can be unlocked with in game money (which is the case for DAMP, if I read everything correctly) then there's no real issue with the microtransactions IMO.

[Fidite Nemini]

It's not a competitive MP. In fact, I think the FAQ makes it clear that the basic idea is the same as with ME3 MP, 100% co-operative gameplay with shared rewards.

 

 

By all means then, I do encourage my potential teammates to use the microtransaction option if they feel like it. If they have better gear it helps the team, thus also helping me.

[Kantr]

You can be terrified of it, but it's not as if people who buy the packs will have any advantage over you as it's Co-op not PVP

[JGDD]

 

I don't know how it will play out in practice, but they've taken the model from ME3 and that was done extremely well.

 

Eventually, yes. Early days there was some grief over items that were not capped. Anyone remember what it was like to have RNGeezus troll you with 255 reset powers cards? Getting three of those in every PSP until you hit the cap was akin to salting a wound. More so when you paid in real money.

 

Micro-transactions are fine if the RNG balance is there and not weighted as poorly as it was shortly after release.

[SofaJockey]

ME3MP is the starting model so let's apply it.

 

I'm going to assume that weapons/staves will be generally available to craft (or purchase) with gold,

but your kit will vary from common to uncommon to rare and to ultra-rare (or similar terms).

 

The common and uncommon stuff will get you to a decent place fairly quickly, it's the rare and particularly the ultra-rare stuff that take time.

But your skills playing will quickly out-pace the marginal weapon improvements.

 

So play and don't worry about it.

 

I spent real money a few times, usually after a dlc update to more quickly unlock new characters.

 

Because of the random nature of the packs, spending a little cash can help if you want to improve early more quickly

but to spend more money on ultra-rare equipment is extremely poor value for money.

 

The ultra-rare stuff is best achieved by completionists who will literally put in the hours.

 

In any case, from what I understand less than 10% of players will buy >50% of the paid micro-transactions.

[Fidite Nemini]

 

 

Eventually, yes. Early days there was some grief over items that were not capped. Anyone remember what it was like to have RNGeezus troll you with 255 reset powers cards? Getting three of those in every PSP until you hit the cap was akin to salting a wound. More so when you paid in real money.

 

Micro-transactions are fine if the RNG balance is there and not weighted as poorly as it was shortly after release.

 

 

 

To be honest, if the DAI MP works like ME3 MP, but has a item progression system that is not totally random as in ME3 MP, then it will be as close to perfect as it can get.

[Cainhurst Crow]

So this is my perfect situation:

- unlock all content in mp in 100 hours or less

- some people can pay if they want to to support additional dlc content for free for everyone

- they release free content like extra characters with some of the money they earn

 

Your two lower goals contradict the first, and here's why.

 

If you can pay to get the content they want through microtransactions, they can get all the items in less then 100 hours. Therefore making the need for MP's grind to be less completely redundant. Moreoever in order to ensure people can easily get everything in a grind easy fashion, there has to be less content. That's just mathematically required for this to work, you need less dlc content and content in general so everything can be unlocked extremely quickly, and yes, for a game mode meant to last a year, 100 hours is extremely quick.

 

Not that mathematics matter anyway. You can't quantify player speed because it varies from skill to free time to just plain old luck. how to we measure the 100 hours anyway? Just 100 hours of casual play where you play for an hour or two and then leave game for a few days? Or is it measured by sitting down for 100 hours straight to collect everything? Considering they'll most likely implement a loot system it'll come down to luck as to how long it takes to get everything because it'll come down to luck of the draw.

 

And why 10 exactly? Was 90 hours too extreme and 110 hours too much exposure? Why other then its just a round number that sounds nice until you think about it.

 

And again, you can already spend money and get all the new content anyway. Making any sort of time based measurment pointless due to the game essentially giving you a route to do that and fulfill the requirements you yourself outlined here.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Do you people read? I said I WAS FINE WITH MICRO TRANSACTIONS but I don't want them to over inflate the grind, I want it to be lazy packs for people and not either pay or grindly endlessly for hundreds of hours type deal. 

 

Then you've already shot yourself in the foot because there is no objective way to measure the grind rate as being too hard or not. Its a skilled based measurement that entirely depends on the individual in question. Someone who doesn't play the game well is going to have a much higher difficulty grinding then the player who never dies in platinum who will have a harder time then the folks who figure out how to essentially enemy farm on the levels to rapidly gain points.

 

There's no real way to measure it that doesn't leave players unsatisfied, because 9/10 players want all the perks, for free, with zero grind, and that to them is fair. The only way to have microtransactions exist and thus free dlc to exist is to make an incentive to grind, but the problem arises when players don't want to grind for gear and still want the gear for free, which they do, because human nature is human nature.

[CronoDragoon]

Do you people read? I said I WAS FINE WITH MICRO TRANSACTIONS but I don't want them to over inflate the grind, I want it to be lazy packs for people and not either pay or grindly endlessly for hundreds of hours type deal. 

 

Also as I have said, I have no reason to believe that they won't increase the grind even further than me3. Thats why I want CLARIFICATION on the amount of time all unlocks take.

 

Your problem is that your proposed "reasonable" amount of time to unlock everything is ridiculous. 100 hours is not a substantial amount of time for any robust MP mode.

[Maria Caliban]

Oh lord, you're going to scare off the poor fellow.

Could it take 1,000 hours to unlock everything? Yes, but that's either bad luck or playing on the lowest difficulty level.

I unlocked almost everything in ME MP in 350 hours before I stopped playing. I maxed all the common, uncommon, and rare weapons. I unlocked and maxed all the characters. I got all the weapon mods and maxed all the gear. The only stuff I'm missing is ultra rare weapons and some weapon mod upgrades.

Alternatively, I know people who were able to stockpile millions of credits for each new DLC and would have almost everything unlocked the day a new one would hit.

So, you know, don't panic. It's not that bad.

[rupok93]

So what I got from this was you guys want to pay more money and like f2p model designs in a $60 game. OK as expected of BSN.

 

100 hours is reasonable or 200 hours, it doesn't matter as long as its not an insane time frame. so many of you play for progression, i thought the point of playing a game was for fun not progression and the game congratulating you with some message every few minutes.

 

Also there is an objective way to measure to fairness of the grind, as in there not being one. There should be no need to farm at all in this type of game. This game is looking like pre patch diablo where it took freaking forever to get anything good out of item drops, you had thousands of crappy drops before getting anything remotely decent. Theres a reason those guys removed the auction house because just like micro transactions it created a conflict of interest of game design. Now microtransactions to unlock stuff super fast for the lazy in theory is fine but as I said I don't trust them to not edit the fairness of item drops because of it. 

And to people who said that they would do that to make money, many people would just stop playing the mp outright if they did that but gaming publishers are out of touch with gamers so they think if they make people impatient they will buy their small items. The only people that actually spend money on the unlocks are people who would either way even if the grind was small.

 

 

ALL I ask is that the rate of drops be fair, that people don't have to put insane amounts of time into the game to get anything remotely good.

[Malum In Se]

I played ME3's multiplayer obsessively for quite a while. I played 277 hours and almost 1,000 games.  I never paid any real world money to buy any of the packs.  Despite that I had most of the weapons and characters.  The balance between credit costs for packs and the rewards was fine.  The RNG hated me, but I still unlocked most of what I wanted.  Honestly, the only stuff I really wanted but failed to unlock was some of the content from the last free update when I had moved on to other games.

 

I actually like the challenge of unlocking everything without spending any additional money.  However, I am happy that someone is paying for my free ride.  I encourage people to buy platinum for chests.  The more folks do it, the longer EA supports the multiplayer and the faster we get new content.   

[Maria Caliban]

So what I got from this was you guys want to pay more money and like f2p model designs in a $60 game. OK as expected of BSN.

I'm paying $60 for a 150 hour single player game. I'm not buying this game for the multiplayer.

The multiplayer is in addition to the single player game, and I expect DLC, weekly/monthly challenges, achievements, etc for free because of the micro-transactions. I played ME MP for 350 hours because I enjoyed the game, not because I had to unlock and max everything.
 

ALL I ask is that the rate of drops be fair, that people don't have to put insane amounts of time into the game to get anything remotely good.

You will have that. There's a difference between unlocking everything and getting good gear.

If you're familiar with ME MP, the rare tier is full of excellent weapons and all the character kits are easy to unlock. 'Maxing' a character just gives you customization options.

[Cyonan]

So what I got from this was you guys want to pay more money and like f2p model designs in a $60 game. OK as expected of BSN.

 

100 hours is reasonable or 200 hours, it doesn't matter as long as its not an insane time frame. so many of you play for progression, i thought the point of playing a game was for fun not progression and the game congratulating you with some message every few minutes.

 

Also there is an objective way to measure to fairness of the grind, as in there not being one. There should be no need to farm at all in this type of game. This game is looking like pre patch diablo where it took freaking forever to get anything good out of item drops, you had thousands of crappy drops before getting anything remotely decent. Theres a reason those guys removed the auction house because just like micro transactions it created a conflict of interest of game design. Now microtransactions to unlock stuff super fast for the lazy in theory is fine but as I said I don't trust them to not edit the fairness of item drops because of it. 

And to people who said that they would do that to make money, many people would just stop playing the mp outright if they did that but gaming publishers are out of touch with gamers so they think if they make people impatient they will buy their small items. The only people that actually spend money on the unlocks are people who would either way even if the grind was small.

 

 

ALL I ask is that the rate of drops be fair, that people don't have to put insane amounts of time into the game to get anything remotely good.

 

Most of us do play for fun. The great thing about that is that we all have our own ideas as to what fun is and a lot of RPGers happen to like progression of character. We like feeling as though our characters are constantly growing and getting stronger as we play rather than reaching maximum power within the first month and being stuck there.

 

Yes, the drop rate is going to be influenced by micro-transactions being in the game. The idea is to generally make them look attractive to buy into without making them absolutely mandatory, or to give away cosmetic items that you can only get via MTs(which I suspect would cause even more of an outrage if they did that). Making everything achievable fairly quickly negates that.

 

If it works like it does in ME3 then the vast majority of weapons you will be able to max out within 100 or so hours. There will then be about a dozen or so weapons that make up the big grind if you want to max those out, and more added later on with DLC. On top of that, you will be able to craft weapons that you specifically want rather than praying to the RNG gods that you get it. This helps reduce the grind for unlucky people.

 

and let's not even start pretending like only the UR guns were worth anything on Gold/Platinum in ME3. Many of the rare guns were as good or even better than a number of URs.

[Xerxes52]

The only thing I'm really worried about is the gold/platinum ratio and the RNG system.

The costs of ME3's chests were a little on the high side compared to mission rewards imo, but I'd still place it in the "Fair" category. An example of ridiculous in-game prices vs. mission payouts would be GTA Online. Let's try to stay away from that.

As for the RNG, I'm hoping they go with a more player-focused system. If you're using a Reaver for example, the RNG should be weighted towards unlocking Reaver items (weapons, armor, customization options, etc.) with the exception of new character unlocks. I wouldn't go as far as Diablo 3's Loot 2.0, but a step in that direction would be welcome.

[Malanek]

Unfortunately this is the main problem with microtransactions affecting game design. I played me3, I liked it but I got kind of annoyed having to grind so many matches to get decent equipment.

What do you mean by "decent" equipment. You could get equipment that was perfectly good, better than decent, for Bronze in less than 10 hours. Silver in around 20-30. At that stage it starts to slow down, but level 10 uncommon weapons combined with powers are good enough to solo gold with. And since the game is designed to have 4 players I think that qualifies as "decent". Of course some of the best weapons can take 500+ hours to unlock and fully evolve.

[Eelectrica]

I think the trick is to play the MP game because you enjoy it, have personal challenges and so forth to do.

 

I think where people start to hate it is when the only goal is unlocks and repeating something over and over to achieve the unlocks in the shortest time possible. By the time everything is unlocked it's possible you'll never want to look at the game again, and all that grinding has been all for naught essentially.

[mugwuffin1986]

Hmmm...

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the OP doesn't enjoy progression based games (WoW, Guild Wars, Diablo etc...).

 

The system in Mass Effect, and the system it would seem they will be implementing here is based around RNG & Progression. The system works two fold, firstly it's addictive, gathering enough resources to get new equipment packs to unlock that rare item or new class will keep people coming back time and time again. Secondly it pads out the time between content releases which in turn keeps an active base of players.

 

If complete tiered difficulty progression was achievable, as you'd like, in 100 hours you would have finished with the multiplier in under a month. This type of multiplayer is a marathon not a sprint.

 

You mentioned in another post you enjoy achieving all goals early in a games multiplayer life cycle so you can just enjoy the game, well how long will you just enjoy the game before you grow tired of the experience without any clear attainable item or goal?

 

As for microtransactions... that's a tricky thing to balance, microtransactions exist to boost along a players progression if they're lagging behind, either due to a busy schedule or poor game to loot ratios. I know a lot of older guys who maybe get an hour or two a week online, microtransactions help these guys immensely when it comes to being "competitive" online. It's the kind of deal that works for both EA and the consumer willing to use the service, but even then the nature of RNG doesn't guarantee a good loot roll.

 

It seems like this isn't the type of online experience that will suit you, or maybe you'll try it and RNGesus will convert you. 

[sabreracer]

For me ME3MP was all about having fun.  I maxed my manifest 18 months ago @ 880 hours and I still play it now (not as much) and have 1200 hours behind me.

 

I do like the system that Warframe uses overall, though it can be painful and a real grind at times.  Nothing other than cosmetics is behind a paywall.  You can buy exactly the weapon or frame you want with Platinum or you can gather the resources to build them (pray to the RNG God) but they are exactly the same when built.  And you can aim for particular items, it isn't purely random.  

 

I didn't get my Lancer I until 700 odd hours long after most of my URs were maxed.  

 

I've spent a fair amount on Warframe Platinum, I didn't on ME3MP packs and I would never spend real money on a chest that gives you a random selection of gear that has a good chance of being complete toss.