50 réponses à ce sujet

[Yargol]

Well....not sure if you're talking about the expansion, but if so....I'm getting Mass Effect 2 at Midnight on Monday/Tuesday am. It should probably carry me through until March when the expansion comes out.

[TheMadCat]

Fexelea wrote...

@TheMadCat

That would depend on your segmentation, and if they are focusing their release by targeting only the old-style core of their market then they are making a mistake. Modern console gamers are not divided by preferred genre or age, they are better clustered by social circle and exposure (aka hype). For that reason, someone who bought DA:O will also be found playing GoW, and can be awaiting for both and have to chose.

Indeed, which is why I said they'll lose some sales. However you can't say GoW would have as large an impact on Awakeings sales as another AAA cRPG being released. Games within the same genre are still the main competitors for a product and the one thing that would have the biggest impact on it's sales. So do you release it in March when you're dealing with AAA titles outside of your genre or do you do in within the months after when games like Drakensang, Alpha Protocol, Arcania, and a few other smaller titles pop out that are within the same genre on top of large AAA titles.

As for the last sentence, why do they have to chose? Why can one not purchase multiple games a month if there are multiple games that interest them? You're laying down this assumption that a gamer is only going to buy one title a month which is about a mile and an ocean away from the truth. Games of a similar style are much less likely to be bought together then games of a different style however, which is where the root of my nontraditional competitors argument stems from.

[Abriael_CG]

TheMadCat wrote...

Indeed, which is why I said they'll lose some sales. However you can't say GoW would have as large an impact on Awakeings sales as another AAA cRPG being released. Games within the same genre are still the main competitors for a product and the one thing that would have the biggest impact on it's sales. So do you release it in March when you're dealing with AAA titles outside of your genre or do you do in within the months after when games like Drakensang, Alpha Protocol, Arcania, and a few other smaller titles pop out that are within the same genre on top of large AAA titles.

As for the last sentence, why do they have to chose? Why can one not purchase multiple games a month if there are multiple games that interest them? You're laying down this assumption that a gamer is only going to buy one title a month which is about a mile and an ocean away from the truth. Games of a similar style are much less likely to be bought together then games of a different style however, which is where the root of my nontraditional competitors argument stems from.

The average customer, actually, buys less than one game a month. There are several studies on that made by nielsen and similar companies.
Remember that not everyone is a dedicated gamer, and many dedicated gamers are still on a budget. Personally, I don't have that problem, but i know MANY people that have to make choices in crowded periods. After the crowded period ends, they might or may not go back and buy some of the games they missed, it's hit and miss, because other games are released in the meanwhile, and the "new and shiny" always has it's draw.

Expecially console gamers, that have a VERY wide array of choices, will find themselves with a lot of chosing to do this march, and there are several very strong titles that have been overhyped for years on the line. It doesn't matter if they're different genres. God of War 3, just to make an example, is a brand-defining title for the PS3 crowd, and you can be sure many will prioritize it. And it's not the only one.

Many people that like RPGs in general, also love JRPGs, and Final Fantasy XIII isn't the only JRPG coming out in march or at the very end of February.
Last Rebellion, Lunar the Silver Star Harmony (this one will have a VERY big draw to veteran gamers like me), Fragile Dreams, Shin Megami Tensei for DS, Sakura Wars (another one that has been waited for centuries by quite a few people), Monster Hunter Tri coming right after at the beginning of April... Add to this all the crapfest of non-rpg titles, that will still abundantly chip into Awakening's sales, and you get a quite dire painting.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 24 janvier 2010 - 04:09 .

[Fexelea]

TheMadCat wrote...

Fexelea wrote...

@TheMadCat

That would depend on your segmentation, and if they are focusing their release by targeting only the old-style core of their market then they are making a mistake. Modern console gamers are not divided by preferred genre or age, they are better clustered by social circle and exposure (aka hype). For that reason, someone who bought DA:O will also be found playing GoW, and can be awaiting for both and have to chose.

Indeed, which is why I said they'll lose some sales. However you can't say GoW would have as large an impact on Awakeings sales as another AAA cRPG being released. Games within the same genre are still the main competitors for a product and the one thing that would have the biggest impact on it's sales. So do you release it in March when you're dealing with AAA titles outside of your genre or do you do in within the months after when games like Drakensang, Alpha Protocol, Arcania, and a few other smaller titles pop out that are within the same genre on top of large AAA titles.

As for the last sentence, why do they have to chose? Why can one not purchase multiple games a month if there are multiple games that interest them? You're laying down this assumption that a gamer is only going to buy one title a month which is about a mile and an ocean away from the truth. Games of a similar style are much less likely to be bought together then games of a different style however, which is where the root of my nontraditional competitors argument stems from.

Whilst direct competition might be *worst* for product sales, indirect competition is still an important factor to consider.
And please, you are the one making assumptions regarding purchasing power. Entertainment providers are constantly competing for the consumers time and entertainment budget. Consumers have limited budgets, and the mayority of gamers buy one game at a time to play. This is supported by marketing data. Unfortunately you must be a paying subcriber to get the full NPD analysis, but there are articles in gamasutra and such that can be used as a source as well: http://www.gamasutra...ial_Control.php
The reality is that DA is a "hardcore" game and we just don't buy more than 2 games a month in the good times. With a stumbling economy it is counterproductive to overestimate the appeal of an expansion over full releases of new awaited titles.

[Rock Mu]

I'm interested in WKC mainly for the online mode. The georama should be fun too, I always liked that part of the Dark Cloud games. As for RtO, I'm hoping they get it out before the expansion at least.

[TheMadCat]

The average customer, actually, buys less than one game a month. There
are several studies on that made by nielsen and similar companies.
Remember
that not everyone is a dedicated gamer, and many dedicated gamers are
still on a budget. Personally, I don't have that problem, but i know
MANY people that have to make choices in crowded periods. After the
crowded period ends, they might or may not go back and buy some of the
games they missed, it's hit and miss, because other games are released
in the meanwhile, and the "new and shiny" always has it's draw.

I understand that, I am on a budget myself and buy maybe 5 games a year. The problem with averages from these studies is they don't give an accurate month by month description. A heavy month is going to naturally see more multiple purchasers then a light month. You can average less them a game a monthr and still buy 4 or 5 titles in a month.

Expecially console gamers, that have a VERY wide array of choices, will
find themselves with a lot of chosing to do this march, and there are
several very strong titles that have been overhyped for years on the
line. It doesn't matter if they're different genres. God of War 3, just
to make an example, is a brand-defining title for the PS3 crowd, and
you can be sure many will prioritize it. And it's not the only one.

This is true, and I acknowledged that in my very first post. But again, would God of War 3 have a bigger impact on sales then another AAA cRPG? I don't think so. So as I said, do they compete with large AAA titles outside the genre now or go against the slew of RPG's coming out in Q3-Q4. Going by what your saying holding it over to April won't make a difference as people will be buying to catch up so to speak.

Many people that like RPGs in general, also love JRPGs, and
Final Fantasy XIII isn't the only JRPG coming out in march or at the
very end of February.
Last Rebellion, Lunar the Silver Star Harmony
(this one will have a VERY big draw to veteran gamers like me), Fragile
Dreams, Shin Megami Tensei for DS, Sakura Wars (another one that has
been waited for centuries by quite a few people), Monster Hunter Tri
coming right after at the beginning of April... Add to this all the
crapfest of non-rpg titles, that will still abundantly chip into
Awakening's sales, and you get a quite dire painting.

I've always been on the line with this idea. I've seen plenty of people in both camps and have always had a hard time determing how much of an impact a jRPG would have on an AAA cRPG. How much would Awakening be impacted by Last Rebellion or Sakura Wars, it's hard to really say. A title from one of the most well known developers in the business backed by what will be a sizeable advertising budget against games 80% of gamers have never heard of. FF is the only one I really see stealing Awakenings thunder to any real degree of importance.

Whilst direct competition might be *worst* for product sales, indirect competition is still an important factor to consider.

Agree completely, and never said this was never true. The problem is there are always "indirect competitors" out there. There are always going to be games stealing another games thunder, taking up volume and taking away sales. However the mid-March window has no direct competitors seen for weeks, aside from maybe FF. There are always going to be battles, might as well pick the ones that aren't going to be gunning straight for you.

And please, you are the one making assumptions regarding purchasing
power.

Not really, you stated they would have to chose and I stated that it's not really true and that people can purchase multiple games a month. There is no rule of thumb saying you can only buy this many games per this time period. I tackled average thing above already, it's not the best number to rely on when discussing this particular type of situation.

Entertainment providers are constantly competing for the
consumers time and entertainment budget. Consumers have limited
budgets, and the mayority of gamers buy one game at a time to play.

Agree, never tried to argue this. Have said since the start Awakening will lose sales because of it's timing. It'll lose sales any month due to other games it's up against. In my opinion it's better to drop it in a window where there AAA tiles and no direct competitors then to drop it where there are both AAA titles and direct competitors.

The reality is that DA is a "hardcore" game and we just don't buy more
than 2 games a month in the good times. With a stumbling economy it is
counterproductive to overestimate the appeal of an expansion over full
releases of new awaited titles.

The same can be said for any month this year though. The problem is it seems like every month this year has a couple of big named titles being released. So again, if not now, when?

The PC does seem to be the driving platform for the series, or at least their targeted platform. I believe none of these games mentioned are PC releases and I'm sure that's the key reason it's target date in mid-March.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 24 janvier 2010 - 05:17 .

[Fexelea]

I never stated that they would have to chose. I said "and can be awaiting for both and have to chose".

Can does not mean will.

I think there are many other months in the year that are much less crowded than this one, and since they have made the leap to multi-platform and seem to have simultaneous release agreements, it would make more sense to look for another date.

[greywolf84]

Call me an idiot (Which you probably will) but what DLC are we talking about? Are we talking about Return to Ostagar or another piece of DLC for Dragon Age?

[TheMadCat]

Fexelea wrote...

I never stated that they would have to chose. I said "and can be awaiting for both and have to chose".
Can does not mean will.

The way that's worded imples that they have to chose one or the other if they are awaiting for both. So you'll have to understand why I misinterpreted what you said.

I think there are many other months in the year that are much less crowded than this one, and since they have made the leap to multi-platform and seem to have simultaneous release agreements, it would make more sense to look for another date.

Like I said 2010 looks to be a busy year. Every month seems to have a couple of big named games coming out. Late Q2 and Q3 seem to be the cRPG heavy months. Mid-March you have no direct competitors and no heavy hitters on the PC which does appear to their targeted platform. Consoles may get crunched a bit but at the end of the day what hurts more, delay the console verisons another month or two and make no money during the two months and perhaps take a PR hit as I'm sure there are plenty of console users who would have picked this up in March anyways, or lose some inital sales on your "extra" platforms.

Call me an idiot (Which you probably will) but what DLC are we talking
about? Are we talking about Return to Ostagar or another piece of DLC
for Dragon Age?

I'm sure he's talking about Awakening. He better be otherwise I have no idea what I've been arguing about.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 24 janvier 2010 - 05:52 .

[greywolf84]

Thanks for clearing the air and thanks for not calling me an idiot

[DoctorPringles]

Is it weird I have nothing else to look forward to in March besides Awakening and a map/gun pack for MW2?

[Orcadian]

Elanareon wrote...

FF is over rated bcause of FF7. They still hope a great game will come out from that series.

FF7 was not the only good FF game...

FF Tactics, FF3(US).. Well, most FF games except for FFX-2 were good or great games, not just FF7.

[Enigm4tic W4rrior]

Elanareon wrote...

FF is over rated bcause of FF7. They still hope a great game will come out from that series.

lmao wtf are you smoking?? obviously you have no clue what your talking about. all the final fantasy games in the series has been incredible. 1-12 has been great. you prolly just watched advent children, n seen previews for crisis core for the psp. dont go saying the final fantasy series sucks, when it is proven to have started a lot of the other hit rpg series of our time.

you sir live under a rock, its called sunlight, trust me it wont hurt you, your not a vampire, nor are you edward and think you can sparkle.

[Grey__Warden]

Enigm4tic W4rrior wrote...

Elanareon wrote...

FF is over rated bcause of FF7. They still hope a great game will come out from that series.

lmao wtf are you smoking?? obviously you have no clue what your talking about. all the final fantasy games in the series has been incredible. 1-7 and 9 has been great. you prolly just watched advent children, n seen previews for crisis core for the psp. dont go saying the final fantasy series sucks, when it is proven to have started a lot of the other hit rpg series of our time.

you sir live under a rock, its called sunlight, trust me it wont hurt you, your not a vampire, nor are you edward and think you can sparkle.

Fixed that for you.

[screwoffreg]

Final Fantasy XIII is a rail fest, buddy. Once you play an RPG with actual choice, that series wears on you...at least it did for me.

[Fexelea]

@TheMadCat

I don't think that reads that way at all. Since there is a "someone" and a "can" that are conditioning the sentence, it would be reasonable to expect readers to understand that I am talking about a scenario that CAN happen, not that MUST/WILL happen.



I don't think that 2010 is as crowded on "heavy hitters" each month, and I do think that an April/May release would make more sense for all the platforms and maximize positive reception and sales perception.

[The_Admiral]

Aeto Alessos wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Meh, not a single one of those games you listed interest me so I'm glad Awakening is coming in March.

I second this.

I third this.

[MrKrisSatan]

The_Admiral wrote...

Aeto Alessos wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Meh, not a single one of those games you listed interest me so I'm glad Awakening is coming in March.

I second this.

I third this.

I fourth this

[BTA1]

I don't want any of those games so I'd rather have the expansion.

[Abriael_CG]

screwoffreg wrote...

Final Fantasy XIII is a rail fest, buddy. Once you play an RPG with actual choice, that series wears on you...at least it did for me.

You know, most gamers don't really care about being able to kill quest givers instead of taking the quest.

I for one, enjoy a great story, and FFXIII has the potential for one just like DA:O. I leave the "OMG RAILS!" RPG elitism to the ones that love to limit their own fun with stereotypes.

We all know that FFXIII will obliterate dragon age and every other RPG in the market, sales-wise. So why uselessly bashing what's just a different kind of game? envy? Spite? There's room in the gaming market for more than one RPG, yanno...

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 24 janvier 2010 - 12:58 .

[Arbiter Libera]

Jaymo147 wrote...

As long as they don't delay the PC version :stareatBioware:

This. Seriously, what's with this recent obsession that they have to release everything simultaneously on all available platforms? If it's ready for a PC release then GIEF and sort the console audience later when you can. Same thing with DLCs.

[Raxtoren]

oh, RoF ( the creators of star ocean) will get released in March also....



hmmm..



Heavy Rain and WKC the 24th...



Then FFXIII,God of war 3 and Yakuza 3... + this expansion... nah I cant afford all ;(

[10 Steps Back]

Meh I'm skipping on the expansion. March will be my last year of hardcore gaming since I have to go serve my Basic Military Training, sucks I know.



Although I do not agree with delaying this I mean sure it would have to compete saleswise with a lot of games but as far as I know I've met alot of PS3 gamers (okay some of them are fanboys) that are annoyed and *giggles* boycott any late DLC or versions of anything.



And although most of them are most likely lying or just finding a reason to skip it I would hate the chaos that would ensue should this expansion be delayed on the PS3. Mind you my usual website is the Droid Haven (Although Xbots are vicious as well) known as N4G and it gets annoying when you have Bots rub it in your face and Droids talk crap about good games. (If majority of my friends didn't post there I'd leave *sigh*)

[Althernai]

No matter when you release a game, there will always be something else released at approximately the same time and most of the time, it will either be something very big (e.g. Modern Warfare 2, Final Fantasy XIII) or something of the same magnitude as your game and similar to it in content. As long as it's not both (i.e. don't release a multiplatform FPS at the same time as MW2 or a PS3 exclusive JRPG at the same time as FFXIII), it is generally better to release the game when it is ready because for every month you sit on it, the graphics become more and more dated and the chance that somebody releases a game with the same "new" elements as yours increases.

That said, I wouldn't put much stock in the March 16th release date. Given their track record for all DA:O related content (the game itself, the toolset, the Return to Ostagar DLC), I would say that it is more likely than not for Awakening to be released after April 1st.

[DoctorPringles]

MrKrisSatan wrote...

The_Admiral wrote...

Aeto Alessos wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Meh, not a single one of those games you listed interest me so I'm glad Awakening is coming in March.

I second this.

I third this.

I fourth this

I fifth this.