458 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

Mages freedom would inevitably led to a second Tevinter. But in my view, if the mages are able to seize power, then they deserve it. Tevinter is ruled by mages since the time of it's founding - and it prevails. It battled like 3 Blights, Andraste's conquest, Qunari invasion and constant war with them, probably some Exalted Marches... Before it conquered most of the known world, it won a war against Arlathan and it's immortal ancient elves! By all means, it must mean that Magocracy is quite efficient in it's design. Hell, Tevinter Imperium at it's peak, was able to battle Darkspawn during the First Blight for decades! Without the Wardens aiding them!. How long was Farelden able to battle the Blight? During at most half a year (time of DA:O), whole country was pillaged and destroyed, plunged into a civil war, and it's capital has been captured and set ablaze. If not for the Warden and a lot of luck, Farelden would be nonexistant today. I'll take Tevinter Magister's rule over civil war and inept kings and regents of Farelden anytime.

Good lets validate every anti-mage groups fear. Granted we know little of real teventier but creating a might makes right dictatorship wont help

[Willowhugger]

I have the same feelings about Briala Elves. just like the mage's and templars they all just straight to war to fix their problems, and on their way kill innocents and destroy the balance, and Thedas needs to stay in balance, or have blights taught us nothing? There must be peace. so i see those who wage the templar and mage war in a light of idiocy. i mean why else do you think the elder one targetted the summit? because he knows if it is attack, these people would be too stubborn too close minded to try to stop the war.

I have difficulty understanding in what way the elves have anything to lose by killing as many Orlasians as possible. They have much-much better reasons than the Mages to rebel and its obvious there's no advantage to trying to reform the system from within.

Briala realizes you can't work within a system that treats you as vermin.

[Willowhugger]

Good lets validate every anti-mage groups fear. Granted we know little of real teventier but creating a might makes right dictatorship wont help

 

Tevinter is the only known magocracy but it seems to be making a rather pessimistic view of humanity that mages want to rule the world. It takes a rather specific sociopathic mindset for that which Tevinter fosters.

Again, I point to Mead-Brewing Mage.

[LobselVith8]

Mages freedom would inevitably led to a second Tevinter. 

 

The societies of the Dalish, Chasind, Avvar, and Rivain aren't emulating the Imperium, despite the presence of free mages.

 

But in my view, if the mages are able to seize power, then they deserve it. Tevinter is ruled by mages since the time of it's founding - and it prevails. It battled like 3 Blights, Andraste's conquest, Qunari invasion and constant war with them, probably some Exalted Marches... Before it conquered most of the known world, it won a war against Arlathan and it's immortal ancient elves! By all means, it must mean that Magocracy is quite efficient in it's design. Hell, Tevinter Imperium at it's peak, was able to battle Darkspawn during the First Blight for decades! Without the Wardens aiding them!. How long was Farelden able to battle the Blight? During at most half a year (time of DA:O), whole country was pillaged and destroyed, plunged into a civil war, and it's capital has been captured and set ablaze. If not for the Warden and a lot of luck, Farelden would be nonexistant today. 

I'll take Tevinter Magister's rule over civil war and inept kings and regents of Farelden anytime. 

 

Technically, Tevinter is ruled by Magisters, and it's a society where mages and non-mages are enslaved.

[Master Warder Z_]

I have difficulty understanding in what way the elves have anything to lose by killing as many Orlasians as possible. They have much-much better reasons than the Mages to rebel and its obvious there's no advantage to trying to reform the system from within.

Briala realizes you can't work within a system that treats you as vermin.

 

Briala is a selfish self deluded twit who is going to end up dying at the point of a PC sword for her trouble.

[Willowhugger]

All mages are freed automatically and propelled above all non-mages. Which David Gaider has said is why so many elves, even slaves in Tevinter, think they're actually better than City Elves in other lands.

They have a chance, however slight, or being the elite.

[cjones91]

I have the same feelings about Briala Elves. just like the mage's and templars they all just straight to war to fix their problems, and on their way kill innocents and destroy the balance, and Thedas needs to stay in balance, or have blights taught us nothing? There must be peace. so i see those who wage the templar and mage war in a light of idiocy. i mean why else do you think the elder one targetted the summit? because he knows if it is attack, these people would be too stubborn too close minded to try to stop the war.

 

You don't need war to cause change. change can come from order and peace. they are just not patient or calm enough to attempt it that way. and don't say its because they have already tried, because many of them didn't.

 

Elves, Casteless, Mage's, they all suffer from horrible social classes, but they Don't need to fight a war to change. you even see in all the games and books, things are changing for them, in peaceful ways. and yes i will say all who go to war as war mongers. Killing in any name is wrong. for freedom or hatred. Peace is what is needed, always.

Sometimes change is violent and swift and paid in blood.It won't come unless people take a stand and do something about it,peace is also brought about with sacrifice and blood,

[Willowhugger]

Briala is a selfish self deluded twit who is going to end up dying at the point of a PC sword for her trouble.

 

I confess, I may be prejudiced as I'm inclined to think well of anyone who kills Orlaisians.

It's why I spared Loghain.

Anyone who hates Orlais as much as he does can't be all bad.

[Master Warder Z_]

The societies of the Dalish, Chasind, Avvar, and Rivain aren't emulating the Imperium, despite the presence of free mages.

 

Funny though that EVERY society you mentioned, had Mages in position of Leadership though.

 

I think that speaks volumes.

[raging_monkey]

Tevinter is the only known magocracy but it seems to be making a rather pessimistic view of humanity that mages want to rule the world. It takes a rather specific sociopathic mindset for that which Tevinter fosters.Again, I point to Mead-Brewing Mage.

i grant you this about whillhelm but not all mages are benign

[LobselVith8]

All mages are freed automatically and propelled above all non-mages. Which David Gaider has said is why so many elves, even slaves in Tevinter, think they're actually better than City Elves in other lands.

They have a chance, however slight, or being the elite.

 

This wasn't true for Arlathan elves, and this also wasn't true for Fenris' sister, who required a boon from her brother Leto to emancipate her and her mother from slavery.

[cjones91]

Good lets validate every anti-mage groups fear. Granted we know little of real teventier but creating a might makes right dictatorship wont help

Rivain had a mage community and it was nothing like Tevinter.That argument is really getting redundant at this point.

[Willowhugger]

i grant you this about whillhelm but not all mages are benign

 

Yeah, the biggest argument against me is not all mages want to rule the world. Do all people with swords?

And....uh, well, Thedas is ruled by a bunch of people with swords.

[Kieran G.]

Sometimes change is violent and swift and paid in blood.It won't come unless people take a stand and do something about it,peace is also brought about with sacrifice and blood,

And i will spill blood to stop those people.

[cjones91]

Funny though that EVERY society you mentioned, had Mages in position of Leadership though.

 

I think that speaks volumes.

And what is that?Mages can't be in positions of leadership?

[Willowhugger]

This wasn't true for Arlathan elves, and this also wasn't true for Fenris' sister, who required a boon from her brother Leto to emancipate her and her mother from slavery.

 

It's true as of World of Thedas.

 

Also, Fenris' sister was a mage so she'd be liberated but her family wouldn't necessarily be so. Likewise, she may have needed to be trained in magic.

 

Then again, sometimes continuity hiccups occur.

The Templars are a celibate order but Aveline's husband was a Templar.

[Willowhugger]

And what is that?Mages can't be in positions of leadership?

 

The idea mages will invariably rise to the top of the food chain might strike him as bad. Even though there's a difference between it and ruling as dictators.

[cjones91]

And i will spill blood to stop those people.

Good luck with that,the funny thing about change is that you nor anyone else can stop it.Fight all you want,kill the people who oppose you but that's not going to stop anything.

 

Thedas is changing,and you either adapt or perish.The old status quo is dead.

[Willowhugger]

Good luck with that,the funny thing about change is that you nor anyone else can stop it.Fight all you want,kill the people who oppose you but that's not going to stop anything.

While I understand what you're saying.

 

General Patton: War has solved more conflicts and resolved more issues than any other tool in history.

 

You may argue it's a STUPID way of doing so, but it tends to actually resolve a lot.

[LobselVith8]

It's true as of World of Thedas.

 

Also, Fenris' sister was a mage so she'd be liberated but her family wouldn't necessarily be so. Likewise, she may have needed to be trained in magic.

 

Then again, sometimes continuity hiccups occur.

The Templars are a celibate order but Aveline's husband was a Templar.

 

Which contradicts the enslavement of the Arlathan elves and the slavery of Fenris' sister Varania, who was a slave until the point Leto (Fenris) fought for the freedom of her and their mother.

 

Also, the templars aren't celibate; Gaider said they do marry, although the spouse needs to be able to support himself (or herself) independently of the templar spouse.

[Willowhugger]

Which contradicts the enslavement of the Arlathan elves and the slavery of Fenris' sister Varania, who was a slave until the point Leto (Fenris) fought for the freedom of her and their mother.

The Masked Empire says the Arlathan elves were enslaved by other elves, and probably sold to Tevinter legally.

As has happened throughout RL history.

It's only elvish mythology which makes Tevinter the boogeymen.

[Kieran G.]

Good luck with that,the funny thing about change is that you nor anyone else can stop it.Fight all you want,kill the people who oppose you but that's not going to stop anything.

 

Thedas is changing,and you either adapt or perish.The old status quo is dead.

I'm not fighting change. i'm fighting anarchist.

[AshesEleven]

Briala is a selfish self deluded twit who is going to end up dying at the point of a PC sword for her trouble.

 

Just goes to show the variety of opinions within the Dragon Age community  I love Briala and find her a brave, intelligent woman who is absolutely doing the right thing.  I hate Celene.  

[cjones91]

I'm not fighting change. i'm fighting anarchist.

Anarchy is just a term people use to label those who rebel against the system,many propagandists used that strategy to discredit many rebellions in the past.And by proxy you're also fighting against change,this whole thing was years in the making.

[Willowhugger]

Anarchy is just a term people use to label those who rebel against the system,many propagandists used that strategy to discredit many rebellions in the past.And by proxy you're also fighting against change,this whole thing was years in the making.

 

Of course, true Anarchism is a pretty valid system which is based on the idea of bringing down existing governments ao they can be remade because modern people can do them better and more equitably.

Since, well, we've got a LOT of stupid laws hanging over our heads.