458 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Do I have flaws, of course. Could the flaws I have lead to doing some enormous tragedy, no. Sorry, but I know myself too well. Zathrian's hatred is what lead him to do what he did. We don't know what sort of people the magisters were. With great power comes great responsibility, if you can handle that then why would I be an issue for your assualt? I dont expect to change your mind or mindset on whatever problem you have with mages or devotion you have with the Templar order. I'm simply saying if I was myself a mage in Thedas I would have no need to be your enemy. I'm a very strong willed and independent person, but I have a right to defend myself against anyone who would do be harm for no reason other than being born what I am be it from close minded citizens, templars, or demons.

Yes everybody says that "oh i can control demons" -Avernus/uldred 124122 other mages then "ups it went wrong not my fault" or "ahaha burn everything!".So no that you say you won't cause disaster isn't assurance that you won't pretty much more than 90 % peoples would say that...

[Kieran G.]

The police can't lock you up for life just because you 'might do something',they need probable cause and proof of you committing  a crime.

Yes but still. you cannot compare a mage to a normal peasant. what would you have Thedas do? give them normal civilian rights? let them be free. running around with all that power. and the ability to do anything.

[Kieran G.]

Do I have flaws, of course. Could the flaws I have lead to doing some enormous tragedy, no. Sorry, but I know myself too well. Zathrian's hatred is what lead him to do what he did. We don't know what sort of people the magisters were. With great power comes great responsibility, if you can handle that then why would I be an issue for your assualt? I dont expect to change your mind or mindset on whatever problem you have with mages or devotion you have with the Templar order. I'm simply saying if I was myself a mage in Thedas I would have no need to be your enemy. I'm a very strong willed and independent person, but I have a right to defend myself against anyone who would do be harm for no reason other than being born what I am be it from close minded citizens, templars, or demons.

You are the only one who says you can handle your power. Do you think your neighbors would take you at your word you might never cause fire, or sudden explosion, or wake up a demon? You cannot be trusted, just like a peasant cant be trusted, but a locked door and a sword keeps peasants out, those wont keep a mage out. they are too powerful. and tbh i'm not pro-Templars, i just dont think mage's should be running around with all the freedom in the world.

[cjones91]

Yes but still. you cannot compare a mage to a normal peasant. what would you have Thedas do? give them normal civilian rights? let them be free. running around with all that power. and the ability to do anything.

What I would do is reform the Circle and let the mages who have proven to be able to control their power live in communities with some over sight.

[BloodKaiden]

They should not have the option, because some can get out who want to cause destruction or might cause destruction on accident. and the amount of damage a mage can do is too destructive that you cannot risk that. because maybe your character might just want to spend time with your family, but another might get in a fight with his family and destroy entire city blocks out of rage. I mean do you let house hold have catapults on top of their roofs? no? and you don't let them because they have the potential of misusing it on the city or people, not because they will.

  

Again, why are we discussing how the actions of another should condemn someone who has done nothing wrong. Do mages have power, yes. But why are you talking like no mages have self control. If I get in a fight with my sister you really believe just because I have the ability to cast blizzard on the populace I would?

It's not working out because Templars and Mage's are colliding and selfish mage's are not realizing what they are. they are as much regular people as the qunari are human.

 

That's what im saying, its not working because both parties involved aren't willing to compromise. But you can't blame this conflict on simply one side.

 

I never said they aren't selfish. but mage's pretend they are normal when they are not. do you treat a Lion like a cat? even though they are the same species they are no where near the same.

Mages are normal. They are not freaks to be imprisoned because people fear what they do not understand. Why not, you don't think cats can be just as savage or deadly? Smh, we can agree to disagree though cause I refuse to go twenty pages back and forth. You believe what you believe and I do as well.

[Kieran G.]

What I would do is reform the Circle and let the mages who have proven to be able to control their power live in communities with some over sight.

See something like that seems like a great idea. Mage's who have proven them self to live in communities deemed safe to live in would be fine, but it could still be abused so it would have to be watched.

[BloodKaiden]

Yes everybody says that "oh i can control demons" -Avernus/uldred 124122 other mages then "ups it went wrong not my fault" or "ahaha burn everything!".So no that you say you won't cause disaster isn't assurance that you won't pretty much more than 90 % peoples would say that...

Umm, and why would I have to control a demon when I can just refuse whatever they offer? I didn't say I could control demons anyway, you do know demons and innate magic are different things right darling?

[Kieran G.]

  
Mages are normal. They are not freaks to be imprisoned because people fear what they do not understand. Why not, you don't think cats can be just as savage or deadly? Smh, we can agree to disagree though cause I refuse to go twenty pages back and forth. You believe what you believe and I do as well.

 

 

cats can be deadly but they cant be as deadly as lions, that's all, you have to treat a creature like its meant to be treated and mages are meant to be watched and feared. just like a man holding a sword. that's all. if a man walked into a bar with a sword and killed a man, i would then make no one with a sword enter bars because. im not blaming you because a Mage killed someone, i'm just not letting you have the chance if you are going to.

[BloodKaiden]

You are the only one who says you can handle your power. Do you think your neighbors would take you at your word you might never cause fire, or sudden explosion, or wake up a demon? You cannot be trusted, just like a peasant cant be trusted, but a locked door and a sword keeps peasants out, those wont keep a mage out. they are too powerful. and tbh i'm not pro-Templars, i just dont think mage's should be running around with all the freedom in the world.

I believe actions speak louder than words. If I had healing magic and opened a free clinic for years without problems why wouldn't they?

[Kieran G.]

@BloodKaiden I dont hate Mage's in fact i feel bad for them, they don't deserve the abuse they get. its sad people only fear them. but i would be fearful of anyone with a sword. the only problem is Mage's always wield swords. I'm sorry if you feel i hate your choice or something like that. but if you can stop unneeded death wouldn't you want to stop it?

 

And i believe if mage's were aloud to have more clinics to show there magic can be healing and helpful i believe people could start accepting them and maybe the hate between mage's and normal people would start to go away. but at this time, they are violent anarchist who want to destroy the system and will only cause chaos in its place.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Umm, and why would I have to control a demon when I can just refuse whatever they offer? I didn't say I could control demons anyway, you do know demons and innate magic are different things right darling?

It isn't so simple as you saying no as you can see with your companions in da 2 in the fade...

[DKJaigen]

cats can be deadly but they cant be as deadly as lions, that's all, you have to treat a creature like its meant to be treated and mages are meant to be watched and feared. just like a man holding a sword. that's all. if a man walked into a bar with a sword and killed a man, i would then make no one with a sword enter bars because. im not blaming you because a Mage killed someone, i'm just not letting you have the chance if you are going to.

 

Mages can do the same thing you know. you are to weak to exist in this place so we better put you under strict supervision. fear is just a symbol of personal weakness and i hate those that dont seek to elevate themselves and stick around the statues qua like sheep.

[raging_monkey]

Give a person a firearm is he a automatic danger? Possibly but just cause is a possible danger doesnt mean the should be locked on a whim

[Kieran G.]

Mages can do the same thing you know. you are to weak to exist in this place so we better put you under strict supervision. fear is just a symbol of personal weakness and i hate those that dont seek to elevate themselves and stick around the statues qua like sheep.

Yet that's what Mage's do, they don't wait for acceptance they lash out, and think war can bring them freedom when that will just make hate, they are idiotic and blind, just as sheep, i just dont deny what they can do, and if they can elevate them self to let go of their need for magic and resistance to demons, then they will earn my respect and those individual can get freedom in a world that those untrained might destroy.

[Kieran G.]

Give a person a firearm is he a automatic danger? Possibly but just cause is a possible danger doesnt mean the should be locked on a whim

But it does mean you should watch him, in case he is.

[DKJaigen]

Yet that's what Mage's do, they don't wait for acceptance they lash out, and think war can bring them freedom when that will just make hate, they are idiotic and blind, just as sheep, i just dont deny what they can do, and if they can elevate them self to let go of their need for magic and resistance to demons, then they will earn my respect and those individual can get freedom in a world that those untrained might destroy.

 

The mages dont own the mundane s anything and definitely don't need to wait for acceptance.

[raging_monkey]

And said person still has some rights. Watch all you but at some point they will develop the belief of "if im already a threat why dont i show them" starting the percieved injust cycle all over

[BloodKaiden]

@BloodKaiden I dont hate Mage's in fact i feel bad for them, they don't deserve the abuse they get. its sad people only fear them. but i would be fearful of anyone with a sword. the only problem is Mage's always wield swords. I'm sorry if you feel i hate your choice or something like that. but if you can stop unneeded death wouldn't you want to stop it?

And i believe if mage's were aloud to have more clinics to show there magic can be healing and helpful i believe people could start accepting them and maybe the hate between mage's and normal people would start to go away. but at this time, they are violent anarchist who want to destroy the system and will only cause chaos in its place.

  

It's not that I feel you hate my choice, I'm just different I guess in the fact that I actually get to know a person and save judgements for later rather than based on what they are capable of. If I'm in the presence of a soldier with a sword that I know has taken lives before why would I fear him if I know he did it for the defense of others. Ultimately for me it depends on the person rather than what they can, as someone stated something about Marvel comics earlier I'd have no reason to fear the X-men just because they have powers.

It isn't so simple as you saying no as you can see with your companions in da 2 in the fade...

Once again, I'm not saying any of this is simple which is why mages get training or train themselves. Also just to note the companions in the fade were not mages, the only mage who betrayed you was Merrill and she is pro demon. The companions in DA 1 had to be explained that it was all the work of the fade and they resisted the demon.

[Kieran G.]

And said person still has some rights. Watch all you but at some point they will develop the belief of "if im already a threat why dont i show them" starting the percieved injust cycle all over

They already do that, anders is a perfect example. he targeted civilians and priests for crimes of Templars. Many Mages's already do that, and some dont even try to stop them, like Orsino who knew about the man who killed your mother but did nothing about. Mage's aren't innocent, they aren't little animals they are cursed humans with the power to destroy whole cities, and every time you see a mage, you must remember that, just like every time you see a man with a sword you must remember he can swing it at you.

[Medhia_Nox]

There ARE people who can be locked up "just in case".

 

They're people who hear voices and sometimes feel like their bodies are invaded and occasionally display multiple personalities... just... like... mages.

 

The insane CAN and ARE locked away - and mages suffer many of the exact same maladies (only, actually real). 

 

And, like Wynne, mages who show they are in control - get to have total freedom (I believe she even gets snippy with Lambert several times - hardly "downtrodden oppression")

@DKJaigen:  And the mundanes don't owe their lives to the whims of mages.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 
Once again, I'm not saying any of this is simple which is why mages get training or train themselves. Also just to note the companions in the fade were not mages, the only mage who betrayed you was Merrill and she is pro demon. The companions in DA 1 had to be explained that it was all the work of the fade and they resisted the demon.

Merril was trained she didn't last 1 second before she fell to demon  (and what she was pro-demon she said she didn't trust them), uldred was trained he fell to demon as well.So it isn't simple like that as you try to paint if it was we wouldn't have to fight with hordes of abomnations...  

[AlexiaRevan]

I will never accept the circle idea . As long as it is the templar who run things and the chantry oversee it . I will only go with the circle IF it the mages themself who run it . 

[Mistic]

It's not that I feel you hate my choice, I'm just different I guess in the fact that I actually get to know a person and save judgements for later rather than based on what they are capable of. If I'm in the presence of a soldier with a sword that I know has taken lives before why would I fear him if I know he did it for the defense of others. Ultimately for me it depends on the person rather than what they can, as someone stated something about Marvel comics earlier I'd have no reason to fear the X-men just because they have powers.

 

But the X-Men were proactive in their ideals for coexistence and punished their own if needed. That meant that the first enforcers to appear in any given situation where a mutant was using their powers to cause harm were likely other mutants.

 

Even in superhero land, they were clever enough to admit that just saying "we have the ability to cause you a lot of harm, but trust us that we aren't going to do it" wasn't enough. They knew that they had to set an example beyond the call of duty, because just being "a normal citizen" wouldn't be enough to calm down the people's fears.

 

Kudos to Stan Lee and Jack Kirby for creating that back in the sixties. In Thedas we haven't seen such a group yet.

[lil yonce]

@HaHa365:  If a single Templar walked into your town waving a torch - and a mage walked into your town throwing fireballs - which one would you be more scared off?  

They're not the same. 

 

1 Common =/= 1 Solider =/= 1 Templar =/= 1 Mage

 

@cjones91:  20 brave commoners could overwhelm a knight - their anti-magic abilities are useless - 20 brave commoners could not overwhelm a mage (well, maybe if he were sleeping I suppose).

 

You're using rather arbitrary measurements of danger. And wouldn't more appropriate comparisons compare a templar walking into a town and waving a torch and a mage walking into town and waving magical flames? Why doesn't the templar set fire to everything, or at least attempt to, but the mage does? Its nit picking but I see a bias in the phrasing - soldier w/torch is non-threating but mage is always threatening. Though a hamlet could easily go up in flames from one torch.

 

And 20 commoners could not overwhelm a mage? That runs contrary to what Wynne says about mage being killed by lynch mobs and the Circle being just as important to mage protection from mundane citizens as it mundane protection from mages.

Modifié par lil yonce, 30 août 2014 - 04:20 .

[raging_monkey]

Maybe thats what the circle should be with templar support. Haven'tread x men since was a kid