458 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

Maybe thats what the circle should be with templar support. Haven't read x-men since was a kid almost forgot bout the comparison

[Medhia_Nox]

@lil yonce:  You know, there ARE mages who can't use magic the same way the protagonist can right?  We don't know what kind of mages get lynched... but it can't be the type that fight darkspawn and Qunari one would assume (otherwise, how useless they must be against Darkspawn and Qunari)

There are mages who can't even do so much as sustain a tiny magical flame. 

 

Yet, in my example, I clearly stated it could throw a fireball - suggesting, I would hope - that this mage is not one of those types of mages but rather the type that would have access to say... I dunno, a Glyph of Repulsion (correct name)?  Some healing spells.  Grease AND a fireball?

If people want to believe a flamethrower and a torch are the same thing - I won't stop them. 

[lil yonce]

@lil yonce:  You know, there ARE mages who can't use magic the same way the protagonist can right?

I know this.

 

We don't know what kind of mages get lynched... but it can't be the type that fight darkspawn and Qunari one would assume (otherwise, how useless they must be against Darkspawn and Qunari)

This doesn't make sense. You say we don't know what mages get lynched but then state it can't be mages that fight Darkspawn or Qunari. And why couldn't it? A mage, even trained, could be overwhelmed by a mob - a mob of commoners, a mob of darkspawn, a mob of Qunari - they could be overwhelmed and killed. Gameplay example, but did you never die in the deep roads or fail against Qunari mobs in DA2? I don't think the assumption makes sense.

 

Yet, in my example, I clearly stated it could throw a fireball - suggesting, I would hope - that this mage is not one of those types of mages but rather the type that would have access to say... I dunno, a Glyph of Repulsion (correct name)?  Some healing spells.  Grease AND a fireball?

Now you're assuming what a mage would know to justify them being dangerous. And there's nothing that says a mage that knows how to cast a fireball knows how to conjure grease or heal. Adrian from Asunder was a fire mage and she did not have a clue about healing and I don't recall her at all using a grease/fireball tandem.
 

If people want to believe a flamethrower and a torch are the same thing - I won't stop them.

The impression I get from your post is that you want me to believe that a mage is always dangerous - and some astronomical level of dangerous at that. I don't buy it.

[RobRam10]

Mage freedom will lead to a second glorious Imperium and I welcome this change.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Lil yonce:  No, I'm very clearly stating that the mage in my example is a capable one - not some schlep who can't make fire.  

 

And - the conclusion is a logical one.  A schlep that can't make fire - can't fight Qunari or Darkspawn.  Only capable mages of great violence would be useful in such an endeavor... and Darkspawn and Qunari are baseline much stronger than a common human peasant. 

 

If you told me you carry a gun, or a knife, or a sword, or practiced martial arts.... I would log that into my mind that you have practiced or support violent endeavors. Whether they are for "self-defense" would not matter to me.  I wouldn't say much beyond that - but I would be more wary of you (the degree would be based on your fanaticism toward violence and/or your capacity toward violence).  

 

I'm actually NOT saying that mages should be seen as naturally violent and dangerous by commoners (certainly not ones that practice the Creation school for example) - I'm saying mages should be overly wary about themselves and their fellows to alleviate the worry of people less capable of violence than themselves.

 

But time and again - we see self-serving overly confident mages who care very little for the wellfare of others.  Even Rhys explains that they would be willing to use magic against the commons in Asunder. 

 

There's such a thing as bringing a nuke to a knife fight.  Anyone not only willing, but eager, to do so (like Adrian) is not, for me, someone to be trusted.

[AlexiaRevan]

 

But yes, if the Circles dissolve won't this kind of break any power-block mages have? Standing together, they can protect their rights but if freed, they will lose all connection to one another.

I don't think so . And you know why ? If I recall correctly , in DAO they (the mages) within the circle formed Fraternities . If they were to be freed and do as they wanted (with rules set on them) . Then these fraternities would divide and they would form their own kind of circle and would call all the free apostate to come and join . 

[Mistic]

Specifically, that without the Circles, Mages as an identity wouldn't exist.

 

Mages are, with rare exceptions, a group without national ties. The Chantry dumps them all in the Circles together so Mages are loyal to each other, elf or human, rather than their respective home nations. The Dalish illustrate the problem of Mage freedom as their Keepers have no interest in the affairs of Mages because they don't self-identify as Circle Mages. See Morrigan for how much she despises them all.

 

But yes, if the Circles dissolve won't this kind of break any power-block mages have? Standing together, they can protect their rights but if freed, they will lose all connection to one another.

 

It doesn't have to be a bad thing.

 

In the Avatar universe (no, not the blue aliens, but the super-powered martial arts universe), there's this movement called the Equalists in Republic City, a place where benders and non-benders of all nations can live. But the non-benders feel that the benders abuse their powers and it creates a rift between the normal and the superpowered population.

 

However, that isn't such a big issue in the Four Three Nations, normally aligned with a special power (fire, earth, water). For them, their national identity is more important than being bender or non-bender. As you say, it already happens in Thedas: for Dalish mages it's more important to be Dalish than to be a mage. That helps the acceptance of mages in Dalish society.

[BloodKaiden]

Merril was trained she didn't last 1 second before she fell to demon (and what she was pro-demon she said she didn't trust them), uldred was trained he fell to demon as well.So it isn't simple like that as you try to paint if it was we wouldn't have to fight with hordes of abomnations...

Why so defensive? Alright TKS, Merrill stated she regretted agreeing to that deal in the fade and that it was a mistake. Uldred was trained but decided to make that choice anyway. Morrigan was trained and resisted with no issues in DA:O. Yet again, I'll say it isn't simple but it can be done with training or control over yourself. How many times I have to express that I don't know, since apparently you can't handle anything but a mage turning into an abomination. Here's to hoping mages like Solas, Dorian, and Vivienne can shed further light on this in DA:I

[raging_monkey]

So just a idea would mages more accepted if they were align with their state origin before themselves. Serious gotta be a better way to co-exist than circles

[BloodKaiden]

But the X-Men were proactive in their ideals for coexistence and punished their own if needed. That meant that the first enforcers to appear in any given situation where a mutant was using their powers to cause harm were likely other mutants.
 
Even in superhero land, they were clever enough to admit that just saying "we have the ability to cause you a lot of harm, but trust us that we aren't going to do it" wasn't enough. They knew that they had to set an example beyond the call of duty, because just being "a normal citizen" wouldn't be enough to calm down the people's fears.
 
Kudos to Stan Lee and Jack Kirby for creating that back in the sixties. In Thedas we haven't seen such a group yet.

Yeah, and look where they are now? Still dealing with the same BS years later until finally Scott Summers realized that a mutant revolution is the only answer to the hate and prejudice they face.

Cyclops was right.

[Spicen]

Mage freedom? Can they even have that? I swear Hawke killed all of them in kirkwall. I hoped mages wud learn a lesson. Guess the inquisitor will have to clean em up.

[General TSAR]

Mage freedom? Can they even have that? I swear Hawke killed all of them in kirkwall. I hoped mages wud learn a lesson. Guess the inquisitor will have to clean em up.

Yep, the Maker demands their blood. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Why so defensive? Alright TKS, Merrill stated she regretted agreeing to that deal in the fade and that it was a mistake. Uldred was trained but decided to make that choice anyway. Morrigan was trained and resisted with no issues in DA:O. Yet again, I'll say it isn't simple but it can be done with training or control over yourself. How many times I have to express that I don't know, sense apparently you can't handle anything but a mage turning into an abomination. Here's to hoping mages like Solas, Dorian, and Vivienne can shed further light on this in DA:I

Defensive?

As i said 1000 times mages are walking bombs and you don't know who will explode or not you can't tell and it doesn't matter if merril regretted or not if not hawke she would end as abomnation and then her master... He thought he could control demon he was mistaken i rather doubt you could point at him and say this mage will be abomnation or not...

[BloodKaiden]

Defensive?
As i said 1000 times mages are walking bombs and you don't know who will explode or not you can't tell and it doesn't matter if merril regretted or not if not hawke she would end as abomnation and then her master... He thought he could control demon he was mistaken i rather doubt you could point at him and say this mage will be abomnation or not...

Uh huh. Well it each their own, ill stick to being open minded about the Fade with Solas and getting it on with my mage LI Dorian.

[Medhia_Nox]

@BloodKaiden:  Being open minded about magic is one thing... stupidly allowing people to explore it unsupervised and unrestricted is quite another.

[Mistic]

Yeah, and look where they are now? Still dealing with the same BS years later until finally Scott Summers realized that a mutant revolution is the only answer to the hate and prejudice they face.

Cyclops was right.

 

Ah, yes, Cyclops, what a revolutionary idea he had. However, I think the slogan you are looking for is this:

Spoiler

 

For editorial reasons, I'm sure Cyclops' revolution will have the same effect as his predecessor's

 

Marvel also provides "Death by sentinel" (when you give too much power to racist fanatics) or "Death by Phoenix" (when you give too much power to a mutant) in alternative universes to remind everyone what happens when people try the shortcut.

[BloodKaiden]

@BloodKaiden: Being open minded about magic is one thing... stupidly allowing people to explore it unsupervised and unrestricted is quite another.

Sure if the mage is an idiot, I doubt Solas is though and he looks fine so far at the age of 40.

Ah, yes, Cyclops, what a revolutionary idea he had. However, I think the slogan you are looking for is this:

Spoiler

For editorial reasons, I'm sure Cyclops' revolution will have the same effect as his predecessor's

Marvel also provides "Death by sentinel" (when you give too much power to racist fanatics) or "Death by Phoenix" (when you give too much power to a mutant) in alternative universes to remind everyone what happens when people try the shortcut.

Oh dont worry, I have that T-shirt too! I was always team Brotherhood anyway.

[Master Warder Z_]

Solas is bald however and therefore by default evil.

[Spicen]

Solas is bald however and therefore by default evil.

Lol.
Your posts are awesome dude.

[Willowhugger]

You're saying there is causation where there isn't necessarily any.  We know that mages enter the fade every time they dream.  Connor is a mage, thus the demon meeting him in his dreams may not be because he read a book.  The demon may have come to Connor because it sensed his desires while he was in the fade, and felt it could take possession through the guise of a deal.

 

Basically, Connor read a book to save his father.  The demon came to Connor because it knew he wanted to save his father.  The demon didn't necessarily come to Connor because Connor read a book...

 

Yes, but it's not as simple as mages meet up with demons in their dreams and get possessed or the Harrowing wouldn't be done late in life. Mages in their dreams probably never interact with demons on "that" level until they're strong enough to talk with them directly or we have a mage, like Connor, actively seeking them out.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Mundanes simply don't get it, Mage's are superior, they have a right to rule.

 

the white chantry has filled your heads with lies!

[Willowhugger]

And, like Wynne, mages who show they are in control - get to have total freedom (I believe she even gets snippy with Lambert several times - hardly "downtrodden oppression")

@DKJaigen:  And the mundanes don't owe their lives to the whims of mages.

 

Yeah, but that goes both ways. By what right do the majority restrict the rights of mages? If mages really ARE that powerful, are that dangerous, and ARE that terrifying--then what makes the masses think they CAN restrict their rights? That's the other general side of it. When you give someone nothing to lose, they're not going to quietly take it nor should they.

 

10,000 people who murder and abuse 1,000 don't make me not cheer the 1,000 when they kill the heck out of the 10,000.

 

Also, there's the family thing. Mages are denied a basic right of human beings (whether they choose to exercise it or not) to have kids, raise them, adopt, and pass on their knowledge/genes/love.

When the Qun does it to families or the Andrastrian Church to Elves, it's a pretty horrible deal and it happens to mages all the time.

[raging_monkey]

Im pro-mage as the next but promoting a us or them mindset causes more problems

[Master Warder Z_]

Mundanes simply don't get it, Mage's are superior

 

I'd say combusting into a demon puppet thing possibly every time you go to sleep doesn't make you superior but that's me.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

So just a idea would mages more accepted if they were align with their state origin before themselves. Serious gotta be a better way to co-exist than circles

The problem with that is that then they would be expected to answer first and foremost to a head of state. In theory, the current system means that they answer to an NGO and thus aren't involved in wars, which is a good thing since magic can make the war worse even if the mages don't snap and go abomination. (Though in practice, the Divine's coziness with Orlais apparently meant that the Imperial King of Ferelden got all the Circle mages he wanted to put down reisistance, while Maric got none despite being a marginally better ruler even ignoring his status as arguably the rightful king.)