458 réponses à ce sujet

[Tevinter Soldier]

I'd say combusting into a demon puppet thing possibly every time you go to sleep doesn't make you superior but that's me.

 

snippy little battery aren't you?

[Master Warder Z_]

snippy little battery aren't you?

 

I try.

[Tevinter Soldier]

I try.

 

It's ok i don't blame you, growing up under the corrupting influence of the heretical White Devine. Alas, it will be sometime yet until the rest of thedas return's to Tevinters loving embrace.

 

until Then remember Tevinter Prevails! 

[Tevinter Rose]

I don't think mage freedom would destroy mage power. Mages would strengthen the fraternities they already have in place into stronger organizations to consolidate their power. I think that the already pro circle fraternities would make their own mage run circles. Giving mages freedom will ultimately be a good thing but it will be rocky at first imho.

 

Spoiler

 

[RobRam10]

It's ok i don't blame you, growing up under the corrupting influence of the heretical White Devine. Alas, it will be sometime yet until the rest of thedas return's to Tevinters loving embrace.

 

until Then remember Tevinter Prevails!

Well said brother, Glory to Tevinter!

[Kieran G.]

Mage's are powerful, and some of them are very good people, but magic has cause the destruction of so much in Thedas, to levels that normal people could never measure up. Magic destroyed Arlathans, magic brought the Blight. Magic can't be rivaled with in any means, so it must be controled, or it might have to be destroyed. Mage's are good people, thats not what i am saying here, but just one mage who gets to angry or gets a dumb idea in his head can kill hundreds in seconds. and yes all mage's must deal with that, because there is no way to know which ones wont snap. 

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

  just one mage who gets to angry or gets a dumb idea in his head can kill hundreds in seconds. and yes all mage's must deal with that, because there is no way to know which ones wont snap. 

Kind of like humanity in real life 

[Willowhugger]

Mage's are powerful, and some of them are very good people, but magic has cause the destruction of so much in Thedas, to levels that normal people could never measure up. Magic destroyed Arlathans, magic brought the Blight. Magic can't be rivaled with in any means, so it must be controled, or it might have to be destroyed. Mage's are good people, thats not what i am saying here, but just one mage who gets to angry or gets a dumb idea in his head can kill hundreds in seconds. and yes all mage's must deal with that, because there is no way to know which ones wont snap. 

 

Okay, to point out.

1. Artlathan was something of a ****hole.

 

2. The Blight thing seems to have been caused by Dumat.

[Kieran G.]

Kind of like humanity in real life 

No. one person can kill maybe 10 in 10 minutes. while a mage can level a city in 10 minutes, Mage's and Humanity are not equal.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

No. one person can kill maybe 10 in 10 minutes. while a mage can level a city in 10 minutes, Mage's and Humanity are not equal.

unless you have a psycho in power and he sets a bomb off, I was mostly replying to you saying there are good mages but anyone of them can snap, same thing applies to humanity yes there are good people but even a good person can snap

[Steelcan]

No. one person can kill maybe 10 in 10 minutes. while a mage can level a city in 10 minutes, Mage's and Humanity are not equal.

clearly you don't live somewhere automatic weapons and high capacity magazines exist

[Kieran G.]

Okay, to point out.

1. Artlathan was something of a ****hole.

 

2. The Blight thing seems to have been caused by Dumat.

It was a massive city. still, even if it had a massive slave population. but Tevinter Mage's destroy it in a day. they didn't send an army in, they just destroyed it. And dumat didn't go to the golden city himself, it was the magisters. If i tell you to kill someone and then you shoot them, you are still to blame for shooting them.

[Kieran G.]

clearly you don't live somewhere automatic weapons and high capacity magazines exist

does every person have a nuclear bomb built into their dna? you cannot compare a weapon that must be made to a person born with that power.

[lil yonce]

@Lil yonce:  No, I'm very clearly stating that the mage in my example is a capable one - not some schlep who can't make fire.

But you did this by suggesting that a mage that can cast fireballs would know spells they certainly may not know. It comes off to me that you're presenting mages as more dangerous than necessary for the scenario to make your point about how dangerous mages are.

 

And - the conclusion is a logical one.  A schlep that can't make fire - can't fight Qunari or Darkspawn.  Only capable mages of great violence would be useful in such an endeavor... and Darkspawn and Qunari are baseline much stronger than a common human peasant.

But there is nothing that says a trained mage can never fall to a mob. You said we don't know what mages get lynched but then say it can't be mages that fight darkspawn or Qunari. Why not? There is nothing that says your statement is always true, or even true most of the time. And anyone could be overwhelmed by a mob no matter how talented or trained. It comes off to me that you're saying that talented, trained mages are invulnerable absolute threats to commoners - that only weaker mages are vulnerable to mobs - and there is nothing that says that.

 

I'm actually NOT saying that mages should be seen as naturally violent and dangerous by commoners (certainly not ones that practice the Creation school for example) - I'm saying mages should be overly wary about themselves and their fellows to alleviate the worry of people less capable of violence than themselves. But time and again - we see self-serving overly confident mages who care very little for the wellfare of others. Even Rhys explains that they would be willing to use magic against the commons in Asunder. There's such a thing as bringing a nuke to a knife fight.  Anyone not only willing, but eager, to do so (like Adrian) is not, for me, someone to be trusted.

I don't think something like a magical war, or large scale magical violence against commoners has been treated as a consequence of the mage rebellion, and I don't think its fair to condemn mages for using the only real tool at their disposal to fight enemies, even if for whatever reason those enemies are commoners - but fair enough. I dislike this idea that mages have to prove themselves twice as good to be just as worthy of basic trust all other citizens are naturally afforded - and I think asking them to do so in their current position is a little bit silly - but fair enough.

Modifié par lil yonce, 30 août 2014 - 04:20 .

[Master Warder Z_]

clearly you don't live somewhere automatic weapons and high capacity magazines exist

 

I do!

 

I own several!

 

Legally; Paperwork out the butt and the ATF can raid my property whenever there was a crime involving a rifle inside a hundred miles...

 

Bloody Fascists.

[TheJediSaint]

clearly you don't live somewhere automatic weapons and high capacity magazines exist

The introduction of repeating firearms would would be the best reason to retire the Circle system.

[-TC1989-]

does every person have a nuclear bomb built into their dna? you cannot compare a weapon that must be made to a person born with that power.

 

Agreed. To even imagine walking among people that can go from "Hi, how are you?"... to shooting fire balls and crap from their hands? Anyone who wouldn't be at least wary of someone like that, is naive at best. Hell, just thinking they might have a weapon of any sort would make me nervous.

 

 

Kind of like humanity in real life

 

 

Kind of like real life? The day people can literally turn into monsters/demons, and project magic from their bodies is the day we can compare it to real life. I know it appears unfair to label mages as some kind of ticking time bombs, but you have to be kidding if you think someone who is planning to plant a bomb is just as dangerous as someone who can create balls of fire out of thin air.

 

And assuming were still comparing this to real life... look at the whole thing with gun control nowadays. Even owning a gun has become questionable. What in the world do you think would happen if people possessed magic?

[Kieran G.]

TC1989 is right. and this is what i've been saying you can't compare a mage to a human, because they are not the same. it'd be like comparing a tank to a motorcycle, same concept on how to move, but two vastly different objects. anyone riding a motor cycle could also hold a weapon, but everyone riding a tank is. and thats the same with mage's and humans. one can pick up a sword. the other is always wielding a sword

[Willowhugger]

TC1989 is right. and this is what i've been saying you can't compare a mage to a human, because they are not the same. it'd be like comparing a tank to a motorcycle, same concept on how to move, but two vastly different objects. anyone riding a motor cycle could also hold a weapon, but everyone riding a tank is. and thats the same with mage's and humans. one can pick up a sword. the other is always wielding a sword

 

Excepting, of course, that mages feel all the emotions, desires, and pains of a human. They have awesome abilities and a really sucky curse to go with it but they're very-very much human.

 

Also, bluntly, the Chantry taught mages only how to light candles for a couple of centuries.

 

They don't have to be fireball-spewing tanks. They're tanks because the Chantry NEEDS and WANTS tanks. They could have as easily been all healers.

 

 

And assuming were still comparing this to real life... look at the whole thing with gun control nowadays. Even owning a gun has become questionable. What in the world do you think would happen if people possessed magic?

 

I support gun control.

I would NOT support gun control and make sure everyone in America was trained in using a gun if I lived in a place with Darkspawn, Demons, and Dragons.

 

It'd be like living in The Walking Dead, only mages have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The introduction of repeating firearms would would be the best reason to retire the Circle system.

Not really. Mages would still be capable of going abomination, and of abusing their powers; guns might or might not counter the first (which is supposed to be a serious enough problem in the rare event that it happens that entire cities can be destroyed) and counter the second only if the mage is stupid enough to do it overtly. So the single best reason for the Circle and one of the minor ones are both still in effect, if not as severely. Meanwhile, mundanes would also still be bigoted against them due to a combination of religious prejudice (which is not strictly acceptable going off a strict reading of the dominant religion but which we've seen still exists) and legitimate fear due to the first two reasons, and if I understand Asunder correctly we see an attempted lynching for those reasons. Precisely what happens if that lynch mob gets an AK? At least in the Circle the mages are protected from this danger by the same templars who seek to counter the first two problems. (Note that I'm not saying that the Circle doesn't need to be reformed to better protect the mages from the templars themselves.)

[Kieran G.]

Excepting, of course, that mages feel all the emotions, desires, and pains of a human. They have awesome abilities and a really sucky curse to go with it but they're very-very much human.

 

Also, bluntly, the Chantry taught mages only how to light candles for a couple of centuries.

 

They don't have to be fireball-spewing tanks. They're tanks because the Chantry NEEDS and WANTS tanks. They could have as easily been all healers.

They have our emotions and that's what makes them more dangerous. They are not normal and you cannot treat them like they are. and yes many of them can only light candles, but many of them know a lot more then that, if you take in account the tons you run into during the games. I used this example already but would you treat a cat like you would treat a lion? they are both felines yet one is much more dangerous then the other. and so you have to remember that. you can pet him just like a cat, but if you pissed the cat and a lion off, one would hurt you a lot worse then the other.

[Treacherous J Slither]

If mages possess such massive, terrifying power how the heck are they being held prisoner by weaker people?

 

No mage can level whole cities or kill hundreds in seconds. I've read through this entire thread and some people posted outlandish examples of mage power. If mages were that strong Tevinter would still be ruling the world.

[Willowhugger]

They have our emotions and that's what makes them more dangerous. They are not normal and you cannot treat them like they are. and yes many of them can only light candles, but many of them know a lot more then that, if you take in account the tons you run into during the games. I used this example already but would you treat a cat like you would treat a lion? they are both felines yet one is much more dangerous then the other. and so you have to remember that. you can pet him just like a cat, but if you pissed the cat and a lion off, one would hurt you a lot worse then the other.

 

Which then brings up two questions for me.

 

1. If they have our emotions, what makes their suffering less important than regular humans? Why should I sympathize with Orlais peasant 7# over Mage 2#? You seem to be assuming quote-unquote regular people deserve special consideration over mages.

 

If it's sheer numbers then if the elves become the majority, should humans be destroyed for the threat they pose to them? What about Darkspawn, who outnumber everyone else?

 

2. Mages are not a monolithic block of stone and Tevinter is a place where they're at each other's throats. Surely if mages are so dangerous, the best remedy for them is another mage?

 

Templars are mages of a sort anyway and if they can be taught magic with lyrium, why not everyone?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If mages possess such massive, terrifying power how the heck are they being held prisoner by weaker people?

Voluntarily, to a large degree. Don't forget that the Loyalist-Aquitarean coalition had sway over the Circles for much of the series.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Which then brings up two questions for me.

 

1. If they have our emotions, what makes their suffering less important than regular humans? Why should I sympathize with Orlais peasant 7# over Mage 2#? You seem to be assuming quote-unquote regular people deserve special consideration over mages.

 

2. Mages are not a monolithic block of stone and Tevinter is a place where they're at each other's throats. Surely if mages are so dangerous, the best remedy for them is another mage?

1.So what they have emotions ,desires and feel pain animals as well yet peoples experiment for benefit of the humanity.It doesn't matter mages are minority and danger to the human kind and society and prime goal of humanity is to survive no matter who will be crushed in in the process.

 

2.No best remedy are templars charging on them and chopping their heads.