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[Kieran G.]

Which then brings up two questions for me.

 

1. If they have our emotions, what makes their suffering less important than regular humans? Why should I sympathize with Orlais peasant 7# over Mage 2#? You seem to be assuming quote-unquote regular people deserve special consideration over mages.

I never said their suffering was just, I don't agree with how they are treated i just don't pretend they aren't creatures who have the potential to summon demons and raise the dead, control high dragons, or shoot artillery from their hands. If a mage like wynne proves they can control them self, then of course let them have some freedom, but you have to remember they always carry weapons with them.

[Willowhugger]

1.So what they have emotions ,desires and feel pain animals as well yet peoples experiment for benefit of the humanity.It doesn't matter mages are minority and danger to the human kind and society and prime goal of humanity is to survive no matter who will be crushed in in the process.

 

2.No best remedy are templars charging on them and chopping their heads.   

 

1. Mages are superior to human beings of a regular class in more or less every way. From a Darwinist perspective, bluntly, regular humans should attempt to breed with mages until they cease to exist. They're inferior and have no biological advantage over mages.

 

2. Templars exist to protect Mages from inferior foul-smelling mundanes. So says the Black Divine.

 

:-)

[Willowhugger]

I never said their suffering was just, I don't agree with how they are treated i just don't pretend they aren't creatures who have the potential to summon demons and raise the dead, control high dragons, or shoot artillery from their hands. If a mage like wynne proves they can control them self, then of course let them have some freedom, but you have to remember they always carry weapons with them.

 

That seems to be where this is going with "victory" from the Mage-Templar war probably going to just be either a return to the status quo (Templar victory) or autonomous Circles (Mage victory) still allied with the Templars.

Neither faction will radically change.

Which is sad, IMHO.

[Kieran G.]

If mages possess such massive, terrifying power how the heck are they being held prisoner by weaker people?

 

No mage can level whole cities or kill hundreds in seconds. I've read through this entire thread and some people posted outlandish examples of mage power. If mages were that strong Tevinter would still be ruling the world.

Actually some mage's do have such power and some fear dying because their are more Templars then their are Mage's, and these Templars can counteract magic. You saw this perfectly when Meredith blocked the Saarebas, they aren't immortal and can be defeated but yes one mage can destroy a city, you see this many times, Some Controling high dragons, or blowing up Hightown, turning the dead on a village, summon hordes of demons to fight soldiers, or in game you see them make storms of fire that are huge, fields of electricity, or making fireballs rain from the skies, Templars cant do that, and even if Mage's can be killed, one mage can cause much more damage then a Soldier ever could.

[Kieran G.]

That seems to be where this is going with "victory" from the Mage-Templar war probably going to just be either a return to the status quo (Templar victory) or autonomous Circles (Mage victory) still allied with the Templars.

Neither faction will radically change.

Which is sad, IMHO.

And that's best for Thedas, IMHO

[TheKomandorShepard]

1. Mages are superior to human beings of a regular class in more or less every way. From a Darwinist perspective, bluntly, regular humans should attempt to breed with mages until they cease to exist. They're inferior and have no biological advantage over mages.

 

2. Templars exist to protect Mages from inferior foul-smelling mundanes. So says the Black Divine.

 

:-)

1.Not rly mages were crushed by non-mages so many times that this guy is champion in comprashion also not to mention that mages are dominated by non-mages.So no being walking bomb don't make you superior.

 

2.Not those useless tevinter templars but true and smart templars like lambert that kicked their backs like nothing...

[MisterJB]

Yeah, and look where they are now? Still dealing with the same BS years later until finally Scott Summers realized that a mutant revolution is the only answer to the hate and prejudice they face.

Cyclops was right.

Perhaps. If anything, human history in Thedas has proven as much.

Non-mages suffered every indignity from the mages in the time of the Imperium and it took several wars to change this... and what we have today is the result.

If you oppose the Circles because you believe it opresses mages and support armed revolution because you believe it is the only way to change things, then the next logical step is a reversal of the fortunes as has ocurred in the past. That is to say, mages dominating normals wherever this uprising is sucessfull.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

2.Not those useless tevinter templars but true and smart templars like lambert that kicked their backs like nothing...

Lambert is a Tevinter Templar.

[Willowhugger]

Actually some mage's do have such power and some fear dying because their are more Templars then their are Mage's, and these Templars can counteract magic. You saw this perfectly when Meredith blocked the Saarebas, they aren't immortal and can be defeated but yes one mage can destroy a city, you see this many times, Some Controling high dragons, or blowing up Hightown, turning the dead on a village, summon hordes of demons to fight soldiers, or in game you see them make storms of fire that are huge, fields of electricity, or making fireballs rain from the skies, Templars cant do that, and even if Mage's can be killed, one mage can cause much more damage then a Soldier ever could.

 

Which isn't always a bad thing.

 

Imagine if the Elves killed by Empress Celene had mages. 3,000 elves might not be dead.

 

Mages have better weapons than anyone.

And it might be good for some of the downtrodden to get some of those.

[Willowhugger]

Lambert is a Tevinter Templar.

 

If we believe him. I can't help but wonder if he made all that up because Tevinter has been evil for centuries. It's not a change in a short time like he implies.

Likewise, would the Seekers really allow a Tevinter Templar to become their leader?

[MisterJB]

Lambert is a Tevinter Templar.

Who attempted to work with mages for the benefit of both peoples.

It didn't work.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lambert is a Tevinter Templar.

He was tevinter templar then he went to normal templars tevinter templars are just guys in armor when he was tevinter templars also he helped corrupted mage get his position then he left and became smart and savvy.

[Willowhugger]

Who attempted to work with mages for the benefit of both peoples.

It didn't work.

 

Anyway, yeah, either way the Mages will end up working with the Inquisition and so will the Templars.

 

The only Templars who will be "Rawwr, kill mages" are the Red Templars and they're all corrupted by Red Lyrium.

[Kieran G.]

Which isn't always a bad thing.

 

Imagine if the Elves killed by Empress Celene had mages. 3,000 elves might not be dead.

 

Mages have better weapons than anyone.

And it might be good for some of the downtrodden to get some of those.

I don't see Celenes actions against the elves as bad. she was putting down a rebellion, nothing more. But that's an argument for a different thread.

 

But yes Mage's can be great artillery for forces and can be very helpful and you can have a great relationship, but all i have been saying this whole time is that a mage can never stop having his destructive magic, unlike a soldier who can put his sword away. mage's must be treated as though they always have weapons in hand and can strike at any moment, once you grow close to a mage of course you would see him the same way as another soldier with his weapons, but on a street. thats different, mage's are always a threat, they can kill at any moment. and yes anyone can kill any moment, except normal people Can't make their weapons suddenly appear.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Anyway, yeah, either way the Mages will end up working with the Inquisition and so will the Templars.

 

The only Templars who will be "Rawwr, kill mages" are the Red Templars and they're all corrupted by Red Lyrium.

Not rly normal templars chop psych-mages like never before thank them for that if they could see difference between shovel and staff it would be great.

[Willowhugger]

But yes Mage's can be great artillery for forces and can be very helpful and you can have a great relationship, but all i have been saying this whole time is that a mage can never stop having his destructive magic, unlike a soldier who can put his sword away. mage's must be treated as though they always have weapons in hand and can strike at any moment, once you grow close to a mage of course you would see him the same way as another soldier with his weapons, but on a street. thats different, mage's are always a threat, they can kill at any moment. and yes anyone can kill any moment, except normal people Can't make their weapons suddenly appear.

 

Oddly, this doesn't dispute their point but one thing to remember is the big thing which limits mages from being artillery is the "magic pool" is a in-universe thing, not just a gameplay segregation. The reason that mages aren't able to slaughter whole villages and end the world is because they run out of magic pretty damn quickly. They need a constant supply of Lyrium to keep going, just like the Templars.

 

Which means that only Blood Mages have an unlimited supply of "juice."

 

So while mages can always be artillery, they can only fire three or four shots before they get chopped down unless they've got some lyrium potions on hand.

Or are Maleficar.

In fact, this may be why Blood Magic is so dangerous. Screw mind-control, it's the unlimited fireball tossing as long as you've got bodies nearby.

[-TC1989-]

I support gun control.

I would NOT support gun control and make sure everyone in America was trained in using a gun if I lived in a place with Darkspawn, Demons, and Dragons.

 

It'd be like living in The Walking Dead, only mages have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving.

 

So you're saying you would leave it up to the mages to win the war? Hard to say if your comparing it to the game, or real life. I say that because my Warden was a rogue, your average human, and I beat the blight. I killed dragons, and went through the fade. Did magic help with that? Of course it did, but the people I had with me had control of what they were doing, especially Morrigan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even Wynne had a lot of trouble within the fade, yes? My point with that is, even one of the most respected, most strong willed of mages was a hairs breath from being manipulated by demons. I would not leave the war up to them in real life, or the game.

 

My mind is also a little foggy, but didn't Avernus have a related incident? He was pressed in a single fortress, and he nearly ended up killing everyone around him?

 

If these are the kinds of people I'm depending on to save my life? I would rather do it another way. Mages, even noble with that kind of power, no matter how strong willed, are just as much of a risk.

 

And back to the gun control thing. If magic was a real thing, and people did grow up with it... I would never mean to imply we should kill them, or whatever. I think the circle is necessary. Mages could be necessary. Mage sympathizers want to act like the circle is pointless, and is nothing more than a prison. It is unfortunate they have to stay there. But the power they hold? It's worth it. Is there flaws within the system? Sure there are, but I look at it in general as a necessary evil, and a special type of schooling program.

[Willowhugger]

So you're saying you would leave it up to the mages to win the war? Hard to say if your comparing it to the game, or real life. I say that because my Warden was a rogue, your average human, and I beat the blight. I killed dragons, and went through the fade. Did magic help with that? Of course it did, but the people I had with me had control of what they were doing, especially Morrigan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even Wynne had a lot of trouble within the fade, yes? My point with that is, even one of the most respected, most strong willed of mages was a hairs breath from being manipulated by demons. I would not leave the war up to them in real life, or the game.

 

My mind is also a little foggy, but didn't Avernus have a related incident? He was pressed in a single fortress, and he nearly ended up killing everyone around him?

 

If these are the kinds of people I'm depending on to save my life? I would rather do it another way. Mages, even noble with that kind of power, no matter how strong willed, are just as much of a risk.

 

And back to the gun control thing. If magic was a real thing, and people did grow up with it... I would never mean to imply we should kill them, or whatever. I think the circle is necessary. Mages could be necessary. Mage sympathizers want to act like the circle is pointless, and is nothing more than a prison. It is unfortunate they have to stay there. But the power they hold? It's worth it. Is there flaws within the system? Sure there are, but I look at it in general as a necessary evil, and a special type of schooling program.

 

1. The Blight only ends, of course, because of the Blood Magic the Grey Wardens use and Grey Wardens require mages to create New Grey Wardens. That's kind of a side issue, though.

 

2. Mages are only one of the four groups you rely on but I think they're the most effective, personally.

 

3. Wynne wasn't on the verge of being possessed, she was ensared by the Dream Trap but so was everybody. Only Morrigan understands it's the Fade while Wynne is in denial due to all the people lost.

 

4. The Fade disaster with Avernus was a disaster but Sophia Dryden kept pushing him to do more to win the hopelessly lost war.

 

A notable fact, also, is that Connor threatened the entirety of the village and almost destroyed it.

However, if Connor had been killed, the whole problem would have been solved.

So blame his mother.

[Kieran G.]

Oddly, this doesn't dispute their point but one thing to remember is the big thing which limits mages from being artillery is the "magic pool" is a in-universe thing, not just a gameplay segregation. The reason that mages aren't able to slaughter whole villages and end the world is because they run out of magic pretty damn quickly. They need a constant supply of Lyrium to keep going, just like the Templars.

 

Which means that only Blood Mages have an unlimited supply of "juice."

 

So while mages can always be artillery, they can only fire three or four shots before they get chopped down unless they've got some lyrium potions on hand.

Or are Maleficar.

In fact, this may be why Blood Magic is so dangerous. Screw mind-control, it's the unlimited fireball tossing as long as you've got bodies nearby.

And yeah you are probably right about the blood magic, and like i said i don't like how the Templar treat the Mage's i just would rather have safety than the chance of destruction. and yes i know that seems harsh but that's realistic, That's why cities have walls, not because they will be attacked, but because they might be attacked, same with many other safety measures.

 

i know there are Mages who can control them self, im not Fennris thinking all mage's are blood mage's or all crave power, i just don't think mage freedom would cause anything else but chaos.

[Willowhugger]

And yeah you are probably right about the blood magic, and like i said i don't like how the Templar treat the Mage's i just would rather have safety than the chance of destruction. and yes i know that seems harsh but that's realistic, That's why cities have walls, not because they will be attacked, but because they might be attacked, same with many other safety measures.

 

i know there are Mages who can control them self, im not Fennris thinking all mage's are blood mage's or all crave power, i just don't think mage freedom would cause anything else but chaos.

 

I understand but, oddly enough, why I created this thread was because I think the biggest issue is possibly the Circles create more problems than they solve. They have concentrated an incredible amount of mystical power in the hands of the mages and made it to the point they can't actually BE controlled by the public unless they want to be.

 

The thing with Kirkwall is the Mages submitted to the Templars only so long as they were willing to tolerate it.

 

When things got so bad, they chose not to and it's implied the world is burning because of it. This wouldn't happen if mages weren't a united force.

[-TC1989-]

1. The Blight only ends, of course, because of the Blood Magic the Grey Wardens use and Grey Wardens require mages to create New Grey Wardens. That's kind of a side issue, though.

 

2. Mages are only one of the four groups you rely on but I think they're the most effective, personally.

 

3. Wynne wasn't on the verge of being possessed, she was ensared by the Dream Trap but so was everybody. Only Morrigan understands it's the Fade while Wynne is in denial due to all the people lost.

 

4. The Fade disaster with Avernus was a disaster but Sophia Dryden kept pushing him to do more to win the hopelessly lost war.

 

A notable fact, also, is that Connor threatened the entirety of the village and almost destroyed it.

However, if Connor had been killed, the whole problem would have been solved.

So blame his mother.

 

1. Agreed. But in this case, as you said.. irrelevant.

 

2. I didn't mean to imply they wouldn't be needed in the fight, since I myself used them in Denerim. But relying on them to win the war in your "The Walking Dead" scenario? No.

 

3. I'm not saying she was hopeless. But you have to admit, they got the better of her. But of course that is what the whole idea is focused on... preying on your emotions. She could hardly face it. Which again points to my earlier point. Mentally I wouldn't say mages should be necessarily relied on. Since even the greatest can falter like anyone else.

 

4. But he still lost control, and this was one case. Speaking again of my last post... you put hundreds and thousands of mages on the field that aren't half as mentally capable as Avernus, and have similar situations? You might as well be giving numbers to the enemy.

 

5. Killing Connor was always a weighted decision for me, and yes chalk it up to bad parenting. But in the end, that becomes irrelevant. A loving mother's desperate attempt to keep her son safe leads to Redcliffe being destroyed? The blame will go to the boy with magic.

[MisterJB]

Well, technically, when the mages of Kirkwall decided to rebel, they were purged by the sword as the Maker intended.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Actually some mage's do have such power and some fear dying because their are more Templars then their are Mage's, and these Templars can counteract magic. You saw this perfectly when Meredith blocked the Saarebas, they aren't immortal and can be defeated but yes one mage can destroy a city, you see this many times, Some Controling high dragons, or blowing up Hightown, turning the dead on a village, summon hordes of demons to fight soldiers, or in game you see them make storms of fire that are huge, fields of electricity, or making fireballs rain from the skies, Templars cant do that, and even if Mage's can be killed, one mage can cause much more damage then a Soldier ever could.

 

Controlling a high dragon can be a good thing. Those big lizards are dangerous. More dangerous than mages IMO.

 

Nobody blew up Hightown. That's nuts. Anders blew up the Chantry building with a bomb not a spell. A mundane could've done it as well.

 

The Desire demon zombified the village. Not Connor. I'm not saying a mage can't do it though. I suspect it's possible but it hasn't happened in-game yet.

 

None of your examples of mage power equate to leveling cities or killing hundreds instantly or mages being nukes. Mages are strong but they can be dealt with and imprisonment is not necessary. Education and training is what's needed.

 

I also notice how all the possible good mages can do to benefit society seems to have little to no relevance to many people. Magic can make life on Thedas much easier in a variety of ways like healthcare, manufacturing, and farming. Given time, space travel and even immortality may be possible.

 

Mages are inherently superior to mundanes and they aren't going anywhere. The best course of action is to make a functioning system that can fully utilize this valuable resource without antagonizing them.

 

I would say more but i've already said all this many times before and probably shouldn't even post in these kinds of threads for fear of repeating myself.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Controlling a high dragon can be a good thing. Those big lizards are dangerous. More dangerous than mages IMO.

 

Nobody blew up Hightown. That's nuts. Anders blew up the Chantry building with a bomb not a spell. A mundane could've done it as well.

 

The Desire demon zombified the village. Not Connor. I'm not saying a mage can't do it though. I suspect it's possible but it hasn't happened in-game yet.

 

None of your examples of mage power equate to leveling cities or killing hundreds instantly or mages being nukes. Mages are strong but they can be dealt with and imprisonment is not necessary. Education and training is what's needed.

 

I also notice how all the possible good mages can do to benefit society seems to have little to no relevance to many people. Magic can make life on Thedas much easier in a variety of ways like healthcare, manufacturing, and farming. Given time, space travel and even immortality may be possible.

 

Mages are inherently superior to mundanes and they aren't going anywhere. The best course of action is to make a functioning system that can fully utilize this valuable resource without antagonizing them.

 

I would say more but i've already said all this many times before and probably shouldn't even post in these kinds of threads for fear of repeating myself.

1.Mages can't control high-dragons only 1 mage could and she was special because of that...

 

2.Yes because we saw that before i mean magical beam is totally non-magical if non-mages could do that it would be rather used often in wars... 

 

3.Dessire demon that was there because of connor and possessed him because connor was a mage.

 

4.And yet disasters caused by mages did that and even more like blights so maybe mage can't do that on whim but mages are walking bombs and when they explode they can cause world-scale disaster.

 

5.And yet almost all mages did is destruction and disasters so no most of this things can be easlity replaced by technology that is better and safer than magic. 

 

6.No they aren't they are walking bombs and got dominated and almost always get wrecked by non-mages when it comes to battle.

[Kieran G.]

Controlling a high dragon can be a good thing. Those big lizards are dangerous. More dangerous than mages IMO.

 

Nobody blew up Hightown. That's nuts. Anders blew up the Chantry building with a bomb not a spell. A mundane could've done it as well.

 

The Desire demon zombified the village. Not Connor. I'm not saying a mage can't do it though. I suspect it's possible but it hasn't happened in-game yet.

 

None of your examples of mage power equate to leveling cities or killing hundreds instantly or mages being nukes. Mages are strong but they can be dealt with and imprisonment is not necessary. Education and training is what's needed.

 

I also notice how all the possible good mages can do to benefit society seems to have little to no relevance to many people. Magic can make life on Thedas much easier in a variety of ways like healthcare, manufacturing, and farming. Given time, space travel and even immortality may be possible.

 

Mages are inherently superior to mundanes and they aren't going anywhere. The best course of action is to make a functioning system that can fully utilize this valuable resource without antagonizing them.

 

I would say more but i've already said all this many times before and probably shouldn't even post in these kinds of threads for fear of repeating myself.

You don't act as though they are dangerous. and that's why we have differing opinions. Because i see all the danger they have. Those that are dangerous, that cant control their strength in a civilized world are put in jails, zoos and the such, but if they can show they can be trusted, act well, not attack those that anger them, then we let them in our homes, just like dogs or performing animals, and at this time, most Mage's dont care about that, they just want to force their freedom with blood, and that;s why they wont be accepting in "mundane" society. i know they have feelings, i know some can be trusted, but i don't kid myself about the threat they are.